CHAP. XXIII.--51. PETILIANUS said: "But if you say that we give baptism

twice over, truly it is rather you who do this, who slay men who have

been baptized; and this we do not say because you baptize them, but

because you cause each one of them, by the act of slaying him, to be

baptized in his own blood. For the baptism of water or of the Spirit is

as it were doubled when the blood of the martyr is wrung from him. And

so our Saviour also Himself, after being baptized in the first instance

by John, declared that He must be baptized again, not this time with

water nor with the Spirit, but with the baptism of blood, the cross

of suffering, as it is written, 'James and John, the sons of Zebedee,

came unto Him, saying, Master, we would that Thou shouldest do for us

whatsoever we shall desire. And He said unto them, What would ye that

I should do for you? They said unto Him, Grant that we may sit, one on

Thy right hand, and the other on Thy left hand, in Thy glory. But Jesus

said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that

I drink of, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

And they said unto Him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall

indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am

baptized withal shall ye be baptized,'[760] and so forth. If these are

two baptisms, you commend us by your malice, we must needs confess. For

when you kill our bodies, then we do celebrate a second baptism; but it

is that we are baptized with our baptism and with blood, like Christ.

Blush, blush, ye persecutors. Ye make martyrs like unto Christ, who

are sprinkled with the baptism of blood after the water of the genuine

baptism."

52. AUGUSTINE answered: In the first place, we reply without delay that

we do not kill you, but you kill yourselves by a true death, when you

cut yourselves off from the living root of unity. In the next place, if

all who are killed are baptized in their own blood, then all robbers,

all unrighteous, impious, accursed men, who are put to death by the

sentence of the law, are to be considered martyrs, because they are

baptized in their own blood. But if only those are baptized in their

own blood who are put to death for righteousness' sake, since theirs

is the kingdom of heaven,[761] you have already seen that the first

question is why you suffer, and only afterwards should we ask what you

suffer. Why therefore do you puff out your cheeks before you have shown

the righteousness of your deeds? Why does your tongue resound before

your character is approved? If you have made a schism, you are impious;

if you are impious, you die as one guilty of sacrilege, when you are

punished for impiety; if you die as one guilty of sacrilege, how are

you baptized in your blood? Or do you say, I have not made a schism?

Let us then inquire into this. Why do you make an outcry before you

prove your case?

53. Or do you say, Even if I am guilty of sacrilege, I ought not to

be slain by you? It is one question as to the enormity of my action,

which you never prove with any truth, another as to the baptism of

your blood, from whence you derive your boast. For I never killed

you, nor do you prove that you are killed by any one. Nor even if you

were to prove it would it in any way affect me, whoever it was that

killed you, whether he did it justly in virtue of power lawfully given

by the Lord, or committed the crime of murder, like the chaff of the

Lord's harvest, through some evil desire; just as you are in no way

concerned with him who in recent times, with an intolerable tyranny,

attended even by a company of soldiers, not because he feared any

one, but that he might be feared by all, oppressed widows, destroyed

pupils, betrayed the patrimonies of other men, annulled the marriages

of other men, contrived the sale of the property of the innocent,

divided the price of the property when sold with its mourning owners.

I should seem to be saying all this out of the invention of my own

head, if it were not sufficiently obvious of whom I speak without the

mention of his name.[762] And if all this is undoubtedly true, then

just as you are not concerned with this, so neither are we concerned

with anything you say, even though it were true. But if that colleague

of yours, being really a just and innocent man, is maligned by a lying

tale, then should we also learn in no way to give credit to reports,

which have been spread abroad of innocent men, as though they had

delivered up the sacred books, or murdered any of their fellow-men.

To this we may add, that I refer to a man who lived with you, whose

birthday you were wont to celebrate with such large assemblies, with

whom you joined in the kiss of peace in the sacraments, in whose hands

you placed the Eucharist, to whom in turn you extended your hands to

receive it from his ministering, whose ears, when they were deaf amid

the groanings of all Africa, you durst not offend by free speech; for

paying to whom, even indirectly, a most witty compliment, by saying

that in the Count[763] he had a god for his companion, some one of your

party was extolled to the skies. But you reproach us with the deeds

of men with whom we never lived, whose faces we never saw, in whose

lifetime we were either boys, or perhaps as yet not even born. What is

the meaning, then, of your great unfairness and perversity, that you

should wish to impose on us the burdens of those whom we never knew,

whilst you will not bear the burdens of your friends? "When thou sawest

a thief, then thou consentedst with him."[764] If he whom you saw did

not pollute you, why do you reproach me with one whom I could not have

seen? Or do you say, I did not consent with him, because his deeds were

displeasing to me? But, at any rate, you went up to the altar of God

with him. Come now, if you would defend yourself, make a distinction

between your two positions, and say that it is one thing to consent

together for sin, as the two elders consented together when they laid a

plot against the chastity of Susannah, and another thing to receive the

sacrament of the Lord in company with a thief, as the apostles received

even that first supper in company with Judas. I am all in favour of

your defence. But why do you not consider how much more easily, in

the course of your defence, you have acquitted all the nations and

boundaries of the earth, throughout which the inheritance of Christ

is dispersed? For if it was possible for you to see a thief, and to

share the sacraments with the thief whom you saw, and yet not to share

his sin, how much less was it possible for the remotest nations of the

earth to have anything in common with the sins of African _traditors_

and persecutors, supposing your charges and assertions to be true, even

though they held the sacraments in common with them? Or do you say, I

saw in him the bishop, I did not see in him the thief? Say what you

will. I allow this defence also, and in this the world is acquitted of

the charges which you brought against it. For if it was permitted you

to ignore the character of a man whom you knew, why is the whole world

not allowed to be ignorant of those it never knew, unless, indeed, the

Donatists are allowed to be ignorant of what they do not wish to know,

while the nations of the earth may not be ignorant of what they cannot

know?

54. Or do you say, Theft is one thing, delivery of the sacred books or

persecution is another? I grant there is a difference, nor is it worth

while now to show wherein that difference consists. But listen to the

summary of the argument. If he could not make you a thief, because his

thieving was displeasing in your sight, who can make men _traditors_

or murderers to whom such treachery or murder is abhorrent? First,

then, confess that you share in all the evil of Optatus, whom you knew,

and even so reproach me with any evil which was found in those whom I

knew not. And do not say to me, But my charges are serious, yours but

trifling. You must first acknowledge them, however trifling they may

be in your case, not before I on my side confess the charges against

me, but before I can allow you to say these serious things about me

at all. Did Optatus, whom you knew, make you a thief by being your

colleague, or not? Answer me one or the other. If you say he did not,

I ask why he did not,--because he was not a thief himself? or because

you do not know it? or because you disapprove of it? If you say,

Because he himself was not a thief, much more ought we not to believe

that those with whom you reproach us were of such a character as you

assert. For if we must not believe of Optatus what both Christians and

pagans and Jews, ay, and what both our party and yours assert, how

much less should we believe what you assert of any one? But if you

say, Because you do not know it, all the nations of the earth answer

you, Much more do we not know of all that you reproach us with in

these men. But if you say, Because you disapproved of it, they answer

you with the same voice, Although you have never proved the truth of

what you say, yet acts like these are viewed by us with disapproval.

But if you say, Lo, Optatus, whom I knew, made me a thief because he

was my colleague, and I was in the habit of going to the altar with

him when he committed those deeds; but I do not greatly heed it,

because the fault was trivial, but your party made you a _traditor_

and a murderer,--I answer that I do not allow that I too am made a

_traditor_ and a murderer by the sins of other men, just because you

confess that you are made a thief by the sin of another man; for it

must be remembered that you are proved a thief, not by our judgment,

but by your own confession. For we say that every man must bear his

own burden, as the apostle is our witness.[765] But you, of your own

accord, have taken the burden of Optatus on your own shoulders, not

because you committed the theft, or consented to it, but because you

declared your conviction that what another did applied to you. For, as

the apostle says, when speaking of food, "I know, and am persuaded by

the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him

that esteemeth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean;"[766] by

the same rule, it may be said that the sins of others cannot implicate

those who disapprove of them; but if any one thinks that they affect

him, then he is affected by them. Wherefore you do not convict us of

being _traditors_ or murderers, even though you were to prove something

of the sort against those who share the sacraments with us; but the

guilt of theft is fastened on you, even if you disapprove of everything

that Optatus did, not in virtue of our accusation, but by your own

decision. And that you may not think this a trivial fault, read what

the apostle says, "Nor shall thieves inherit the kingdom of God."[767]

But those who shall not inherit the kingdom of God will certainly not

be on His right hand among those to whom it shall be said, "Come, ye

blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the

foundation of the world." If they are not there, where will they be

except on the left hand? Therefore among those to whom it shall be

said, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for

the devil and his angels."[768] In vain, therefore, do you indulge in

your security, thinking it a trivial fault which separates you from the

kingdom of God, and sends you into everlasting fire. How much better

will you do to betake yourself to true confusion, saying, Every one of

us shall bear his own burden, and the winnowing fan at the last day

shall separate the chaff from the wheat!

55. But it is evident that you are afraid of its being forthwith said

to you, "Why then, whilst you attempt to place on some men's backs the

burdens of their neighbours, have you dared to separate yourselves from

the Lord's corn, dispersed throughout the world, before the winnowing

at the last day?" Accordingly, you who disapprove of the deeds of your

party, whilst you are taking precautions against being charged with

the schism which you all have made, are involving yourselves also in

their sins which you did not commit; and while the shrewd Petilianus

is afraid of my being able to say that I am not such as he thinks

Cæcilianus was, he is obliged to confess that he himself is such as he

knows Optatus to have been. Or are you not such as the common voice of

Africa proclaims him to have been? Then neither are we such as those

with whom you reproach us are either suspected to have been by your

mistake, or calumniously asserted to have been by your madness, or

proved to have been by the truth. Much less is the wheat of the Lord

in all the nations of the earth of such a character, seeing that it

never heard the names of those of whom you speak. There is therefore

no reason why you should perish in such sin of separation and such

sacrilege of schism. And yet, if you are made to suffer for this great

impiety by the judgment of God, you say that you are even baptized in

your blood; so that you are not content with feeling no remorse for

your division, but you must even glory in your punishment.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXIV.--56. PETILIANUS said: "But you will answer that you abide

by the same declaration, 'He that is once washed needeth not save to

wash his feet.'[769] Now the 'once' is once that has authority, once

that is confirmed by the truth."

57. AUGUSTINE answered: Baptism in the name of the Father and of the

Son and of the Holy Ghost[770] has Christ for its authority, not any

man, whoever he may be; and Christ is the truth, not any man.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXV.--58. PETILIANUS said: "For when you in your guilt perform

what is false, I do not celebrate baptism twice, which you have never

celebrated once."

59. AUGUSTINE answered: In the first place, you do not convict us of

guilt. And if a guilty man baptizes with a false baptism, then none of

those have true baptism who are baptized by men in your party, that

are, I do not say openly, but even secretly guilty. For if he who

gives baptism gives something that is God's, if he is already guilty in

the sight of God, how can he be giving something that is God's, if a

guilty man cannot give true baptism? But in reality you wait till he is

guilty in your sight as well, as though what he proposes to confer were

something that belonged to you.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXVI.--60. PETILIANUS said: "For if you mix what is false with

what is true, falsehood often imitates the truth by treading in its

steps. Just in the same way a picture imitates the true man of nature,

depicting with its colours the false resemblance of truth. And in the

same way, too, the brilliancy of a mirror catches the countenance,

so as to represent the eyes of him who gazes on it. In this way it

presents to each comer his own countenance, so that the very features

of the comer meet themselves in turn; and of such virtue is the

falsehood of a clear mirror, that the very eyes which see themselves

recognise themselves as though in some one else. And even when a shadow

stands before it, it doubles the reflection, dividing its unity in

great part through a falsehood. Must we then hold that anything is

true, because a lying representation is given of it? But it is one

thing to paint a man, another to give birth to one. For does any one

represent fictitious children to a man who wishes for an heir? or would

any one look for true heirs in the falsehood of a picture? Truly it is

a proof of madness to fall in love with a picture, letting go one's

hold of what is true."

61. AUGUSTINE answered: Are you then really not ashamed to call the

baptism of Christ a lie, even when it is found in the most false

of men? Far be it from any one to suppose that the wheat of the

Lord, which has been commanded to grow among the tares throughout

the whole field, that is, throughout the whole of this world, until

the harvest, that is, until the end of the world,[771] can have

perished in consequence of your evil words. Nay, even among the very

tares themselves, which are commanded not to be gathered, but to be

tolerated even to the end, and among the very chaff, which shall only

be separated from the wheat by the winnowing at the last day,[772]

does any one dare to say that any baptism is false which is given and

received in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy

Ghost? Would you say that those whom you depose from their office,

whether as your colleagues or your fellow-priests, on the testimony

of women whom they have seduced (since examples of this kind are not

wanting anywhere), were false or true before their crime was proved

against them? You will certainly answer, False. Why then were they able

both to have and to give true baptism? Why did not their falseness as

men corrupt in them the truth of God? Is it not most truly written,

"For the Holy Spirit of discipline will flee deceit?"[773] Seeing then

that the Holy Spirit fled from them, how came it that the truth of

baptism was in them, except because what the Holy Spirit fled from was

the falseness of man, not the truth of the sacrament? Further, if even

the deceitful have the true baptism, how do they have it who possess

it in truthfulness? Whence you ought to observe that it is rather your

conversation which is coloured with childish pigments; and accordingly,

he who neglects the living Word to take pleasure in such colouring is

himself loving the picture in the place of the reality.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXVII.--62. PETILIANUS said: "It will be urged against us,

that the Apostle Paul said, 'One Lord, one faith, one baptism.'[774]

We profess that there is only one; for it is certain that those who

declare that there are two are mad."

63. AUGUSTINE replied: These words of yours are arguments against

yourselves; but in your madness you are not aware of it. For the men

who say there are two baptisms are those who declare their opinion

that the just and the unjust have different baptisms; whereas it

belongs neither to one party nor the other, but in both of them is

one, being Christ's, although they themselves are not one: and yet the

baptism, which is one, the just have to salvation, the unjust to their

destruction.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXVIII.--64. PETILIANUS said: "But yet, if I may be allowed the

comparison, it is certain that the sun appears double to the insane,

although it only be that a dark blue cloud often meets it, and its

discoloured surface, being struck by the brightness, while the rays of

the sun are reflected from it, seems to send forth as it were rays of

its own. So in the same way in the faith of baptism, it is one thing to

seek for reflections, another to recognise the truth."

65. AUGUSTINE answered: What are you saying, if I may ask? When a dark

blue cloud reflects the rays of the sun with which it is struck, is it

only to the insane, and not to all who look on it, that there appear to

be two suns? But when it appears so to the insane as such, it appears

to them alone. But if I may say so without being troublesome, I would

have you take care lest saying such things and talking in such a way

should be itself a sign of madness. I suppose, however, that what you

meant to say was this,--that the just had the truth of baptism, the

unjust only its reflection. And if this be so, I venture to say that

the reflection was found in that man of your party,[775] to whom not

God, but a certain Count,[776] was God; but that the truth was either

in you or in him who uttered the witty saying against Optatus, when

he said that "in the Count he had a god for his companion."[777] And

distinguish between those who were baptized by either of these, and

in the one party approve the true baptism, in the others exclude the

reflection, and introduce the truth.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXIX.--66. PETILIANUS said: "But to pass rapidly through

these minor points: can he be said to lay down the law who is not a

magistrate of the court? or is what he lays down to be considered law,

when in the character of a private person he disturbs public rights? Is

it not rather the case that he not only involves himself in guilt, but

is held to be a forger, and that which he composes a forgery?"

67. AUGUSTINE answered: What if your private person, whom you deem a

forger, were to set forth to any one the law of the emperor? Would not

the man, when he had compared it with the law of those who have the

genuine law, and found it to be identically the same, lay aside all

care about the source from which he had obtained it, and consider

only what he had obtained? For what the forger gives is false when he

gives it of his own falseness; but when something true is given by any

person, even though he be a forger, yet, although the giver be not

truthful, the gift is notwithstanding true.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXX.--68. PETILIANUS said: "Or if any one chance to recollect the

chants of a priest, is he therefore to be deemed a priest, because with

sacrilegious mouth he publishes the strain of a priest?"

69. AUGUSTINE answered: In this question you are speaking just as

though we were at present inquiring what constituted a true priest, not

what constituted true baptism. For that a man should be a true priest,

it is requisite that he should be clothed not with the sacrament alone,

but with righteousness, as it is written, "Let thy priests be clothed

with righteousness."[778] But if a man be a priest in virtue of the

sacrament alone, as was the high priest Caiaphas, the persecutor of

the one most true Priest, then even though he himself be not truthful,

yet what he gives is true, if he gives not what is his own but what

is God's; as it is said of Caiaphas himself, "This spake he not of

himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied."[779] And yet,

to use the same simile which you employed yourself: if you were to hear

even from any one that was profane the prayer of the priest couched in

the words suitable to the mysteries of the gospel, can you possibly

say to him, Your prayer is not true, though he himself may be not only

no true priest, but not a priest at all? seeing that the Apostle Paul

said that certain testimony of I know not what Cretan prophet was true,

though he was not reckoned among the prophets of God; for he says,

"One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said the Cretians are

always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies: this witness is true."[780]

If, therefore, the apostle even himself bore witness to the testimony

of some obscure prophet of a foreign race, because he found it to be

true, why do not we, when we find in any one what belongs to Christ,

and is true even though the man with whom it may be found be deceitful

and perverse, why do not we in such a case make a distinction between

the fault which is found in the man, and the truth which he has not of

his own but of God's? and why do we not say, This sacrament is true,

as Paul said, "This witness is true?" Does it at all follow that we

say, The man himself also is truthful, because we say, This sacrament

is true? Just as I would ask whether the apostle counted that prophet

among the prophets of the Lord, because he confirmed the truth of what

he found to be true in him. Likewise the same apostle, when he was at

Athens, perceived a certain altar among the altars of the false gods,

on which was the inscription, "To the unknown God." And this testimony

he made use of to build them up in Christ, to the extent of quoting the

inscription in his sermon, and adding, "Whom, therefore, ye ignorantly

worship, Him declare I unto you." Did he, because he found that altar

either among the altars of idols, or set up by sacrilegious hands,

therefore condemn or reject what he found in it that was true? or did

he, because of the truth which he found upon it, therefore persuade

them that they ought also to follow the sacrilegious practices of the

pagans? Surely he did neither of the two; but presently, when, as he

judged fitting, he wished to introduce to their knowledge the Lord

Himself, unknown to them, but known to him, he says among other things,

that "He is not far from every one of us: for in Him we live, and move,

and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said."[781]

Can it be said that here also, because he found among the sacrilegious

the evidence of truth, he either approved their wickedness because of

the evidence, or condemned the evidence because of their wickedness?

But it is unavoidable that you should be always in the wrong, so long

as you do despite to the sacraments of God because of the faults

of men, or think that we take upon ourselves the sacrilege even of

your schism, for the sake of the sacraments of God, to which we are

unwilling to do despite in you.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXI.--70. PETILIANUS said: "'For there is no power but of

God,'[782] none in any man of power; as the Lord Jesus Christ answered

Pontius Pilate, 'Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except

it were given thee from above.'[783] And again, in the words of John,

'A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.'[784]

Tell us, therefore, _traditor_, when you received the power of

imitating the mysteries."

71. AUGUSTINE answered: Tell us rather thyself when the power of

baptizing was lost by the whole world through which is dispersed the

inheritance of Christ, and by all that multitude of nations in which

the apostles founded the Churches. You will never be able to tell

us,--not only because you have calumniated them, and do not prove them

to be _traditors_, but because, even if you did prove this, yet no

guilt on the part of any evil-doers, whether they be unsuspected, or

deceitful, or be tolerated as the tares or as the chaff, can possibly

overthrow the promises, so that all the nations of the earth should not

be blessed in the seed of Abraham; in which promises you deprive them

of their share when you will not have the communion of unity with all

nations of the earth.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXII.--72. PETILIANUS said: "For although there is only one

baptism, yet it is consecrated in three several grades. John gave

water without the name of the Trinity, as he declared himself, saying,

'I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but He that cometh

after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He

shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.'[785] Christ gave

the Holy Spirit, as it is written, 'He breathed on them, and saith

unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost.'[786] And the Comforter Himself

came on the apostles as a fire burning with rustling flames. O true

divinity, which seemed to blaze, not to burn! as it is written, 'And

suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of a rushing mighty wind,

and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared

unto them cloven tongues, like as of fire, and it sat upon each of

them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak

with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.'[787] But you,

O persecutor, have not even the water of repentance, seeing that you

hold the power not of the murdered John, but of the murderer Herod.

You therefore, O _traditor_, have not the Holy Spirit of Christ; for

Christ did not betray others to death, but was Himself betrayed. For

you, therefore, the fire in the spirit in Hades is full of life,--that

fire which, surging with hungry tongues of flame, will be able to burn

your limbs to all eternity without consuming them, as it is written

of the punishment of the guilty in hell, 'Neither shall their fire be

quenched.'"[788]

73. AUGUSTINE answered: You are the calumnious slanderer, not the

truthful arguer. Will you not at length cease to make assertions of a

kind which, if you do not prove them, can apply to nobody; and even if

you prove them, certainly cannot apply to the unity of the whole world,

which is in the saints as in the wheat of God? If we too were pleased

to return calumnies for calumnies, we too might possibly be able to

give vent to eloquent slanders. We too might use the expression, "With

rustling flames;" but to me an expression never sounds in any way

eloquent which is inappropriate in its use. We too might say, "Surging

with hungry tongues of flame;" but we do not wish that the tongues of

flame in our writings, when they are read by any one in his senses,

should be judged hungry for want of the sap of weightiness, or that the

reader himself, while he finds in them no food of useful sentiments,

should be left to suffer from the hunger of excessive emptiness. See,

I declare that your Circumcelliones are burning, not with rustling

but with headlong flames. If you answer, What is that to us? why do

not you, when you reproach with any one whom you will, not listen in

turn to our answer, We too know nothing of it? If you answer, You do

not prove the fact, why may not the whole world answer you in turn,

Neither do you prove it? Let us agree therefore, if you please, that

you should not charge us with the guilt of the wicked men whom you

consider to belong to us, and that we should abstain from similar

charges against you. So you will see, by this just agreement, confirmed

and ratified, that you have no charge which you can bring against the

seed of Abraham, as found in all the nations of the earth. But I find

without difficulty a grievous charge to bring against you: Why have

you impiously separated yourselves from the seed of Abraham, which is

in all nations of the earth? Against this charge you certainly have

no means whereby you may defend yourselves. For we each of us clear

ourselves of the sins of other men; but this, that you do not hold

communion with all the nations of the earth, which are blessed in the

seed of Abraham, is a very grievous crime, of which not some but all of

you are guilty.

74. And yet you know, as you prove by your quotation, that the Holy

Spirit descended in such wise, that those who were then filled with

it spake with divers tongues: what was the meaning of that sign and

prodigy? Why then is the Holy Spirit given now in such wise, that no

one to whom it is given speaks with divers tongues, except because

that miracle then prefigured that all nations of the earth should

believe, and that thus the gospel should be found to be in every

tongue? Just as it was foretold in the psalm so long before: "There

is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard." This was

said with reference to those men who were destined, after receiving

the Holy Spirit, to speak with every kind of tongue. But because this

passage itself signified that the gospel should be found hereafter in

all nations and languages, and that the body of Christ should sound

forth throughout all the world in every tongue, therefore he goes on

to say, "Their sound is gone out throughout all the earth, and their

words to the ends of the world." Hence it is that the true Church is

hidden from no one. And hence comes that which the Lord Himself says

in the gospel, "A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid."[789] And

therefore David continues in the same psalm, "In the sun hath He placed

His tabernacle," that is, in the open light of day; as we read in the

Book of Kings, "For thou didst it secretly; but I will do this thing

before all Israel, and before the sun."[790] And He Himself is "as a

bridegroom coming out of His chamber, and rejoiceth as a giant to run

His race. His going forth is from the end of heaven:" here you have

the coming of the Lord in the flesh. "And His circuit unto the ends

of it:" here you have His resurrection and ascension. "And there is

nothing hid from the heat thereof:"[791] here you have the coming of

the Holy Spirit, whom He sent in tongues of fire, that He might make

manifest the glowing heat of charity, which he certainly cannot have

who does not keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace with the

Church, which is throughout all languages.

75. Next, however, with regard to your statement that there is indeed

one baptism,[792] but that it is consecrated in three several grades,

and to your having distributed the three forms of it to three persons

after such fashion, that you ascribe the water to John, the Holy Spirit

to the Lord Jesus Christ, and, in the third place, the fire to the

Comforter sent down from above,--consider for a moment in how great

an error you are involved. For you were brought to entertain such an

opinion simply from the words of John: "I indeed baptize you with

water: but He that cometh after me is mightier than I: He shall baptize

you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."[793] Nor were you willing to

take into consideration that the three things are not attributed to

three persons taken one by one,--water to John, the Holy Spirit to

Christ, fire to the Comforter,--but that the three should rather be

referred to two persons--one of them to John, the other two to our

Lord. For neither is it said, I indeed baptize you with water: but He

that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to

bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost: and the Comforter, who

is to come after Him, He shall baptize you with fire; but "I indeed,"

He says, "with water: but He that cometh after me with the Holy Ghost,

and with fire." One he attributes to himself, two to Him that cometh

after him. You see, therefore, how you have been deceived in the

number. Listen further. You said that there was one baptism consecrated

in three stages--water, the Holy Spirit, and fire; and you assigned

three persons to the three stages severally--John to the water, Christ

to the Spirit, the Comforter to the fire. If, therefore, the water of

John bears reference to the same baptism which is commended as being

one, it was not right that those should have been baptized a second

time by the command of the Apostle Paul whom he found to have been

baptized by John. For they already had water, belonging, as you say,

to the same baptism; so that it remained that they should receive the

Holy Spirit and fire, because these were wanting in the baptism of

John, that their baptism might be completed, being consecrated, as you

assert, in three stages. But since they were ordered to be baptized

by the authority of an apostle, it is sufficiently made manifest that

that water with which John baptized had no reference to the baptism of

Christ, but belonged to another dispensation suited to the exigencies

of the times.

76. Lastly, when you wished to prove that the Holy Spirit was given

by Christ, and had brought forward as a proof from the gospel, that

Jesus on rising from the dead breathed into the face of His disciples,

saying, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost;"[794] and when you wished to prove

that that last fire which was named in connection with baptism was

found in the tongues of fire which were displayed on the coming of

the Holy Ghost, how came it into your head to say, "And the Comforter

Himself came upon the apostles as a fire burning with rustling flames,"

as though there were one Holy Spirit whom He gave by breathing on the

face of His disciples, and another who, after His ascension, came on

the apostles? Are we to suppose, therefore, that there are two Holy

Spirits? Who will be found so utterly mad as to assert this? Christ

therefore Himself gave the same Holy Spirit, whether by breathing on

the face of the disciples, or by sending Him down from heaven on the

day of Pentecost, with undoubted commendation of His holy sacrament.

Accordingly it was not that Christ gave the Holy Spirit, and the

Comforter gave the fire, that the saying might be fulfilled, "With the

Holy Spirit, and with fire;" but the same Christ Himself gave the Holy

Spirit in both cases, making it manifest while He was yet on earth by

His breathing, and when He was ascended into heaven by the tongues

of flame. For that you may know that the words of John, "He shall

baptize you with the Holy Ghost," were not fulfilled at the time when

He breathed on His disciples' face, so that they should require to

be baptized, when the Comforter should come, not with the Spirit any

longer, but with fire, I would have you remember the most outspoken

words of Scripture, and see what the Lord Himself said to them when He

ascended into heaven: "John truly baptized you with water; but ye shall

be baptized with the Holy Ghost, whom ye shall receive not many days

hence at Pentecost."[795] What could be plainer than this testimony?

But, according to your interpretation, what He should have said was

this: John verily baptized you with water; but ye were baptized with

the Holy Spirit when I breathed on your faces; and next in due order

shall ye be baptized with fire, which ye shall receive not many

days hence;--in order that by this means the three stages should be

completed, in which you say that the one baptism was consecrated. And

so it proves to be the case that you are still ignorant of the meaning

of the words, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with

fire;" and you are rash enough to be willing to teach what you do not

know yourselves.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXIII.--77. PETILIANUS said: "But that I may thoroughly

investigate the baptism in the name of the Trinity, the Lord Christ

said to His apostles: 'Go ye, and baptize all nations, in the name of

the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to

observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.'[796] Whom do you

teach, _traditor_? Him whom you condemn? Whom do you teach, _traditor_?

Him whom you slay? Once more, whom do you teach? Him whom you have

made a murderer? How then do you baptize in the name of the Trinity?

You cannot call God your Father. For when the Lord Christ said,

'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of

God,'[797] you who have not peace at your heart cannot have God for

your Father. Or how, again, can you baptize in the name of the Son, who

betray that Son Himself, who do not imitate the Son of God in any of

His sufferings or crosses? Or how, again, can you baptize in the name

of the Holy Ghost, when the Holy Ghost came only on those apostles who

were not guilty of treason? Seeing, therefore, that God is not your

Father, neither are you truly born again with the water of baptism. No

one of you is born perfectly. You in your impiety have neither father

nor mother. Seeing, then, that you are of such a kind, ought I not to

baptize you, even though you wash yourselves a thousand times, after

the similitude of the Jews, who as it were baptize the flesh?"

78. AUGUSTINE answered: Certainly you had proposed thoroughly to

investigate the baptism in the name of the Trinity, and you had set

us to listen with much attention; but following, as it would seem,

what is the easiest course to you, how soon have you returned to your

customary abuse! This you carry out with genuine fluency. For you set

before yourself what victims you please, against whom to inveigh with

whatsoever bitterness you please: in the midst of which vast latitude

of discourse you are driven into the greatest straits if any one does

but use the little word, Prove it. For this is what is said to you by

the seed of Abraham; and since in him all nations of the earth are

blessed, they care but little when they are cursed by you. But yet,

since you are treating of baptism, which you consider to be true when

it is found in a just man, but false when it is found in the unjust,

see how I too, if I were to investigate baptism in the name of the

Trinity according to your rule, might say, with great fulness, as it

seems to me, that he has not God for his father who in a Count has God

for his companion,[798] nor believes that any is his Christ, save him

for whose sake he has endured suffering; and that he has not the Holy

Ghost who burned the wretched Africa in so very different a fashion

with tongues of fire. How then can they have baptism, or how can they

administer it in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the

Holy Ghost? Surely you must now perceive that baptism can exist in an

unrighteous man, and be administered by an unrighteous man, and that

no unrighteous baptism, but such as is just and true,--not because it

belongs to the unrighteous man, but because it is of God. And herein I

am uttering no calumny against you, as you never cease to do, on some

pretence or other, against the whole world; and, what is even more

intolerable, you do not even bring any proof about the very points on

which you found your calumnies. But I know not how this can possibly be

endured, because you not only bring calumnies against holy men about

unrighteous men, but you even bring a charge against the holy baptism

itself, which must needs be holy in any man, however unrighteous he

may be, from a comparison with the infection arising from the sins of

wicked men, so that you say that baptism partakes of the character of

him by whom it is possessed, or administered, or received. Furthermore,

if a man partakes of the character of him in whose company he

approaches sacred mysteries, and if the sacraments themselves partake

of the character of the men in whom they are, holy men may well be

satisfied to find consolation in the thought that they only fare like

holy baptism itself in hearing false accusations from your lips. But

it would be well for you to see how you are condemned out of your own

mouths, if both the sober among you are counted as drunken from the

infection of the drunken in your ranks, and the merciful among you

become robbers from the infection of the robbers, and whatever evil

is found among you in the persons of wicked men is perforce shared

by those who are not wicked; and if baptism itself is unclean in all

of you who are unclean, and if it is of different kinds according to

the varying character of uncleanness itself, as it must be if it is

perforce of the same character as the man by whom it is possessed

or administered. These suppositions most undoubtedly are false; and

accordingly they in no wise injure us, when you bring them forward

against us without looking back upon yourselves. But they do injure

you, because, when you bring them forward falsely, they do not fall on

us; but, since you imagine them to be true, they recoil upon yourselves.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXIV.--79. PETILIANUS said: "For if the apostles were allowed

to baptize those whom John had washed with the baptism of repentance,

shall it not likewise be allowed to me to baptize men guilty of

sacrilege like yourselves?"

80. AUGUSTINE answered: Where then is what you said above, that there

was not one baptism of John and another of Christ, but that there was

one baptism, consecrated in three stages, of which three stages John

gave the water, Christ the Spirit, and the Comforter the fire? Why then

did the apostles repeat the water in the case of those to whom John

had already administered water belonging to the one baptism which is

consecrated in three stages? Surely you must see how necessary it is

that every one should understand the meaning of what he is discussing.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXV.--81. PETILIANUS said: "Nor indeed will it be possible

that the Holy Spirit should be implanted in the heart of any one by

the laying on of the hands of the priest, unless the water of a pure

conscience has gone before to give him birth."

82. AUGUSTINE answered: In these few words of yours two errors are

involved; and one of them, indeed, has no great bearing on the question

which is being discussed between us, but yet it helps to convict you of

want of skill. For the Holy Spirit came upon a hundred and twenty men,

without the laying on of any person's hands, and again upon Cornelius

the centurion and those who were with him, even before they were

baptized.[799] But the second error in these words of yours entirely

overthrows your whole case. For you say that the water of a pure

conscience must necessarily precede to give new birth, before the Holy

Spirit can follow on it. Accordingly, either all the water consecrated

in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is

water of a pure conscience, not for the merits of those by whom it is

administered, or by whom it is received, but in virtue of the stainless

merits of Him who instituted this baptism; or else, if only a pure

conscience on the part both of the ministrant and the recipient can

produce the water of a pure conscience, what do you make of those whom

you find to have been baptized by men who bore a conscience stained

with as yet undiscovered guilt, especially if there exist among the

said baptized persons any one who should confess that he at the time

when he was baptized had a bad conscience, in that he might possibly

have desired to use that opportunity for the accomplishment of some

sinful act? When, therefore, it shall be made clear to you that neither

the man who administered baptism, nor the man who received it, had

a pure conscience, will you give your judgment that he ought to be

baptized afresh? You will assuredly neither say nor do anything of the

sort. The purity therefore of baptism is entirely unconnected with

the purity or impurity of the conscience either of the giver or the

recipient. Will you therefore dare to say that the deceiver, or the

robber, or the oppressor of the fatherless and widows, or the sunderer

of marriages, or the betrayer, the seller, the divider of the patrimony

of other men,[800] was a man of pure conscience? Or will you further

dare to say that those were men of pure conscience, whom it is hard

to imagine wanting in such times,--men who made interest with the man

I have described, that they might be baptized, not for the sake of

Christ, nor for the sake of eternal life, but to conciliate earthly

friendships, and to satisfy earthly desires? Further, if you do not

venture to say that these were men of pure conscience, then if you find

any of their number who have been baptized, give to them the water of a

pure conscience, which they as yet have not received; and if you will

not do this, then leave off casting in our teeth a matter which you

do not understand, lest you should be forced to answer in reply to us

about a matter which you know full well.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXVI.--83. PETILIANUS said: "Which Holy Spirit certainly

cannot come on you, who have not been washed even with the baptism of

repentance; but the water of the _traditor_, which most truly needs to

be repented of, does but work pollution."

84. AUGUSTINE answered: As a matter of fact, not only do you not prove

us to be _traditors_, but neither did your fathers prove that our

fathers were guilty of that sin; though, even if that had been proved,

the consequence would have been that they would not be our fathers,

according to your earlier assertion, seeing that we had not followed

their deeds: yet neither should we on their account be severed from the

companionship of unity, and from the seed of Abraham, in which all

nations of the earth are blessed.[801] However, if the water of Christ

be one thing, and the water of the _traditor_ another, because Christ

was not a _traditor_, why should not the water of Christ be one thing,

and the water of a robber another, since certainly Christ was not a

robber? Do you therefore baptize again after baptism by your robber,

and I will baptize again after the _traditor_, who is neither mine nor

yours; or, if one must believe the documents which are produced, who

is both mine and yours; or, if we are to believe the communion of the

whole world rather than the party of Donatus, who is not mine, but

yours. But, by a better and a sounder judgment, because it is according

to the words of the apostle, every one of us shall bear his own

burden;[802] nor is either that robber yours, if you are not yourselves

robbers; nor does any _traditor_ belong to any one either of us or

you, who is not himself a _traditor_. And yet we are Catholics, who,

following the spirit of that judgment, do not desert the unity of the

Church; but you are heretics, who, on account of charges, whether true

or false, which you have brought against certain men, are unwilling to

maintain Christian charity with the seed of Abraham.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXVII.--85. PETILIANUS said: "But that the truth of this may be

made manifest from the apostles, we are taught by their actions, as it

is written: 'It came to pass that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul,

having passed through the upper coasts, came to Ephesus: and finding

there certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy

Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as

heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what

then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said

Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto

the people, that they should believe on Him which should come after

him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized

in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon

them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and

prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.'[803] If, therefore,

they were baptized that they might receive the Holy Ghost, why do not

you, if you wish to receive the Holy Ghost, take measures to obtain a

true renewing, after your falsehoods? And if we do ill in urging this,

why do you seek after us? or, at any rate, if it is an offence, condemn

Paul in the first instance; which Paul certainly washed off what had

already existed, whereas we in you give baptism which as yet does not

exist. For you do not, as we have often said before, wash with a true

baptism; but you bring on men an ill repute by your empty name of a

false baptism."

86. AUGUSTINE answered: We bring no accusation against Paul, who gave

to men the baptism of Christ because they had not the baptism of

Christ, but the baptism of John, according to their own reply; for,

being asked, Unto what were ye baptized? they answered, Unto John's

baptism; which has nothing to do with the baptism of Christ, and is

neither a part of it nor a step towards it. Otherwise, either at that

time the water of the baptism of Christ was renewed a second time, or

if the baptism of Christ was then made perfect by the two waters, the

baptism is less perfect which is given now, because it is not given

with the water which was given at the hands of John. But either one of

these opinions it is impious and sacrilegious to entertain. Therefore

Paul gave the baptism of Christ to those who had not the baptism of

Christ, but only the baptism of John.

87. But why the baptism of John, which is not necessary now, was

necessary at that time, I have already explained; and the question has

no bearing on the point at issue between us at the present time, except

so far as that it may appear that the baptism of John was one thing,

the baptism of Christ another,--just as that baptism was a different

thing with which the apostle says that our fathers were baptized in the

cloud and in the sea, when they passed through the Red Sea under the

guidance of Moses.[804] For the law and the prophets up to the time of

John the Baptist had sacraments which foreshadowed things to come; but

the sacraments of our time bear testimony that that has come already

which the former sacraments foretold should come. John therefore was

a foreteller of Christ nearer to Him in time than all who went before

him. And because all the righteous men and prophets of former times

desired to see the fulfilment of what, through the revelation of the

Spirit, they foresaw would come to pass,--whence also the Lord Himself

says, "That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those

things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things

which ye hear, and have not heard them,"[805]--therefore it was said

of John that he was more than a prophet, and that among all that were

born of women there was none greater than he;[806] because to the

righteous men who went before him it was only granted to foretell the

coming of Christ, but to John it was given both to foretell Him in His

absence and to behold His presence, so that it should be found that

to him was made manifest what the others had desired. And therefore

the sacrament of his baptism is still connected with the foretelling

of Christ's coming, though as of something very soon to be fulfilled,

seeing that up to his time there were still foretellings of the first

coming of our Lord, of which coming we have now announcements, but

no longer predictions. But the Lord, teaching the way of humility,

condescended to make use of the sacraments which He found here in

reference to the foretelling of His coming, not in order to assist

the operation of His cleansing, but as an example for our piety, that

so He might show to us with what reverence we ought to receive those

sacraments which bear witness that He is already come, when He did

not disdain to make use of those which foreshadowed His coming in the

future. And John, therefore, though the nearest to Christ in point of

time, and within one year of the same age with Him, yet, while he was

baptizing, went before the way of Christ who was still to come; for

which reason it was said of him, "Behold, I send my messenger before

Thy face, which shall prepare Thy way before Thee."[807] And he himself

preached, saying, "There cometh one mightier than I after me."[808] In

like manner, therefore, the circumcision on the eighth day, which was

given to the patriarchs, foretold our justification, to the putting

away of carnal lusts through the resurrection of our Lord, which took

place after the seventh day, which is the Sabbath-day, on the eighth,

that is, the Lord's day, which fell on the third day after His burial;

yet the infant Christ received the same circumcision of the flesh, with

its prophetic signification. And as the Passover, which was celebrated

by the Jews with the slaying of a lamb, prefigured the passion of our

Lord and His departure from this world to the Father, yet the same Lord

celebrated the same Passover with His disciples, when they reminded

Him of it, saying, Where wilt Thou that we prepare for Thee to eat the

Passover?[809] so too He Himself also received the baptism of John,

which formed a part of the latest foretelling of His coming. But as the

Jews' circumcision of the flesh is one thing, and the ceremony which we

observe on the eighth day after persons are baptized is another;[810]

and the Passover which the Jews still celebrate with the slaying of

a lamb is one thing,[811] and that which we receive in the body and

blood of our Lord is another,--so the baptism of John was one thing,

the baptism of Christ is another. For by the former series of rites

the latter were foretold as destined to arrive; by these latter the

others are declared to be fulfilled. And even though Christ received

the others, yet are they not necessary for us, who have received the

Lord Himself who was foretold in them. But when the coming of our Lord

was as yet recent, it was necessary for any one who had received the

former that he should be imbued with the latter also; but it was wholly

needless that any one who had been so imbued should be compelled to go

back to the former rites.

88. Wherefore do not seek to raise confusion out of the baptism of

John, the source and intention of which was either such as I have here

set forth; or if any other better explanation of it can be given, this

much still is clear, that the baptism of John and the baptism of Christ

are two distinct and separate things, and that the former was expressly

called the baptism of John, as is clear both from the answer of those

men whose case you quoted, and from the words of our Lord Himself,

when He says, "The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of

men?"[812] But the latter is never called the baptism of Cæcilianus,

or of Donatus, or of Augustine, or of Petilianus, but the baptism of

Christ. For if you think that we are shameless, because we will not

allow that any one should be baptized after baptism from us, although

we see that men were baptized again who had received the baptism of

John, who certainly is incomparably greater than ourselves, will you

maintain that John and Optatus were of equal dignity? The thing appears

ridiculous. And yet I fancy that you do not hold them to be equals,

but consider Optatus the greater of the two. For the apostle baptized

after baptism by John: you venture to baptize no one after baptism

by Optatus. Was it because Optatus was in unity with you? I know not

with what heart a theory like this can be maintained, if the friend

of the Count,[813] who had in the Count a god for his companion, is

said to have been in unity, and the friend of the Bridegroom to have

been excluded from it. But if John was pre-eminently in unity, and far

more excellent and greater than all of us and all of you, and yet the

Apostle Paul baptized after him, why do you then not baptize after

Optatus? Unless indeed it be that your blindness brings you into such

a strait that you should say that Optatus had the power of giving the

Holy Spirit, and that John had not! And if you do not say this, for

fear of being ridiculed for your madness even by the insane themselves,

what answer will you be able to make when you are asked why men should

have required to be baptized after receiving baptism from John, while

no one needs to be baptized after receiving it from Optatus, unless

it be that the former were baptized with the baptism of John, while,

whenever any one is baptized with the baptism of Christ, whether he be

baptized by Paul or by Optatus, there is no difference in the nature

of his baptism, though there is so great a difference between Paul and

Optatus? Return then, O ye transgressors, to a right mind,[814] and

do not seek to weigh the sacraments of God by considerations of the

characters and deeds of men. For the sacraments are holy through Him to

whom they belong; but when taken in hand worthily, they bring reward,

when unworthily, judgment. And although the men are not one who take

in hand the sacrament of God worthily or unworthily, yet that which is

taken in hand, whether worthily or unworthily, is the same; so that it

does not become better or worse in itself, but only turns to the life

or death of those who handle it in either case. And in respect of what

you said, that "in those whom Paul baptized after they had received the

baptism of John, he washed off what had already existed," you certainly

would not have said it had you taken a moment to consider what you

were saying. For if the baptism of John required washing off, it must,

beyond all doubt, have had some foulness in it. Why then should I press

you further? Recollect or read, and see whence John received it, so

shall you see against whom you have uttered that blasphemy; and when

you have discovered this, your heart will surely be beaten, if a rein

be not set on your tongue.

89. To come next to what you think you say against us with so much

point: "If we do ill in urging this, why do you seek after us?" cannot

you even yet call to mind that only those are sought after who have

perished? Or is the incapacity for seeing this an element in your

ruin? For the sheep might say to the shepherd with equal absurdity,

If I do wrong in straying from the flock, why do you search after

me? not understanding that the very reason why it is being sought is

because it thinks there is no need for seeking it. But who is there

that seeks for you, either through His Scriptures, or by catholic and

conciliatory voices, or by the scourgings of temporal afflictions, save

only Him who dispenses that mercy to you in all things? We therefore

seek you that we may find you; for we love you that you should have

life, with the same intensity with which we hate your error, that it

might be destroyed which seeks to ruin you, so long as it is not itself

involved in your destruction. And would to God that we might seek you

in such a manner as even to find, and be able to say with rejoicing of

each one of you, "He was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is

found!"[815]

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXVIII.--90. PETILIANUS said: "If you declare that you hold the

Catholic Church, the word 'catholic' is merely the Greek equivalent for

entire or whole. But it is clear that you are not in the whole, because

you have gone aside into the part."

91. AUGUSTINE answered: I too indeed have attained to a very slight

knowledge of the Greek language, scarcely to be called knowledge at

all, yet I am not shameless in saying that I know that [Greek: holon]

means not "one," but "the whole;" and that [Greek: kath' holon] means

"according to the whole:" whence the Catholic Church received its name,

according to the saying of the Lord, "It is not for you to know the

times and the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power. But

ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in Judea,

and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."[816] Here

you have the origin of the name "Catholic." But you are so bent upon

running with your eyes shut against the mountain which grew out of a

small stone, according to the prophecy of Daniel, and filled the whole

earth,[817] that you actually tell us that we have gone aside into a

part, and are not in the whole among those whose communion is spread

throughout the whole earth. But just in the same way as, supposing you

were to say that I was Petilianus, I should not be able to find any

method of refuting you unless I were to laugh at you as being in jest,

or mourn over you as being mad, so in the present case I see that I

have no other choice but this; and since I do not believe that you are

in jest, you see what alternative remains.

* * * * *

CHAP. XXXIX.--92. PETILIANUS said: "But there is no fellowship of

darkness with light, nor any fellowship of bitterness with the sweet

of honey; there is no fellowship of life with death, of innocence

with guilt, of water with blood; the lees have no fellowship with

oil, though they are related to it as being its dregs, but everything

that is reprobate will flow away. It is the very sink of iniquity;

according to the saying of John, 'They went out from us, but they

were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have

continued with us.'[818] There is no gold among their pollution: all

that is precious has been purged away. For it is written, 'As gold is

tried in the furnace, so also are the just tried by the harassing of

tribulation.'[819] Cruelty is not a part of gentleness, nor religion

a part of sacrilege; nor can the party of Macarius in any way be part

of us, because he pollutes the likeness of our rite. For the enemy's

line, which fills up an enemy's name, is no part of the force to which

it is opposed; but if it is truly to be called a part, it will find a

suitable motto in the judgment of Solomon, 'Let their part be cut off

from the earth.'"[820]

93. AUGUSTINE answered: What is it but sheer madness to utter these

taunts without proving anything? You look at the tares throughout the

world, and pay no heed to the wheat, although both have been bidden to

grow together throughout the whole of it. You look at the seed sown by

the wicked one, which shall be separated in the time of harvest,[821]

and you pay no heed to the seed of Abraham, in which all nations of

the earth shall be blessed.[822] Just as though you were already a

purged mass, and virgin honey, and refined oil, and pure gold, or

rather the very similitude of a whited wall. For, to say nothing of

your other faults, do the drunken form a portion of the sober, or are

the covetous reckoned among the portion of the wise? If men of gentle

temper appropriate the term of light, where shall the madness of the

Circumcelliones be esteemed to be, excepting in the darkness? Why

then is baptism, given by men like these, held valid among you, and

the same baptism of Christ not held valid, by whatsoever men it may

be administered throughout the world? You see, in fact, that you are

separated from the communion of the whole world in so far as this, that

you are not indeed all drunk, nor all of you covetous, nor all men of

violence, but that you are all heretics, and, in virtue of this, are

all impious and all sacrilegious.

94. But as to your saying that the whole world that rejoices in

Christian communion is the party of Macarius, who with any remnant of

sanity in his brain could make such a statement? But because we say

that you are of the party of Donatus, you therefore seek for a man

of whose party you may say we are; and, being in a great strait, you

mention the name of some obscure person, who, if he is known in Africa,

is certainly unknown in any other quarter of the globe. And therefore

hearken to the answer made to you by all the seed of Abraham from every

corner of the earth: Of that Macarius, to whose party you assert us to

belong, we know absolutely nothing. Can you reply in turn that you know

nothing of Donatus? But even if we were to say that you are the party

of Optatus, which of you can say that he is unacquainted with Optatus,

unless in the sense that he does not know him personally, as perhaps

he does not know Donatus either? But you acknowledge that you rejoice

in the name of Donatus, do you also take any pleasure in the name of

Optatus? What then can the name of Donatus profit you, when all of you

alike are polluted by Optatus? What advantage can you derive from the

sobriety of Donatus, when you are defiled by the drunkenness of the

Circumcelliones? What, according to your views, are you profited by the

innocence of Donatus, when you are stained by the rapacity of Optatus?

For this is your mistake, that you think that the unrighteousness of a

man has more power in infecting his neighbour than the righteousness

of a man has in purifying those around him. Therefore, if two share

in common the sacraments of God, the one a just man, the other an

unrighteous one, but so that neither the former should imitate the

unrighteousness of the latter, nor the latter the righteousness of

the former, you say that the result is not that both are made just,

but that both are made unrighteous; so that also that holy thing,

which both receive in common, becomes unclean and loses its original

holiness. When does unrighteousness find for herself such advocates as

these, through whose madness she is esteemed victorious? How comes it

then that, in the midst of such mistaken perversity, you congratulate

yourselves upon the name of Donatus, when it shows not that Petilianus

deserves to be what Donatus is, but that Donatus is compelled to be

what Optatus is? But let the house of Israel say, "God is my portion

for ever;"[823] let the seed of Abraham say in all nations, "The Lord

is the portion of mine inheritance."[824] For they know how to speak

through the gospel of the glory of the blessed God. For you, too,

through the sacrament which is in you, like Caiaphas the persecutor

of the Lord, prophesy without being aware of it.[825] For what in

Greek is expressed by the word [Greek: Makarios] is in our language

simply "Blessed;" and in this way certainly we are of the party of

Macarius, the Blessed One. For what is more blessed than Christ, of

whose party we are, after whom all the ends of the earth are called,

and to whom they all are turned, and in whose sight all the countries

of the nations worship? Therefore the party of this Macarius, that is

to say, of this Blessed One, feels no apprehension at your last curse,

distorted from the words of Solomon, lest it should perish from the

earth. For what is said by him of the impious you endeavour to apply to

the inheritance of Christ, and you strive to prove that this has been

achieved with inexpressible impiety; for when he was speaking of the

impious, he says, "Let their portion perish from off the earth."[826]

But when you say, with reference to the words of Scripture, "I shall

give Thee the heathen for Thine inheritance,"[827] and "all the ends of

the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord,"[828] that the promise

contained in them has already perished from the earth, you are seeking

to turn against the inheritance of Christ what was foretold about the

lot of the impious; but so long as the inheritance of Christ endures

and increases, you are perishing in saying such things. For you are not

in every case prophesying through the sacrament of God, since in this

case you are merely uttering evil wishes through your own madness.

But the prophecy of the true prophets is more powerful than the evil

speaking of the false prophets.

* * * * *

CHAP. XL.--95. PETILIANUS said: "Paul the apostle also bids us, 'Be

ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath

righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with

darkness? and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath

he that believeth with an infidel?"[829]

96. AUGUSTINE answered: I recognise the words of the apostle; but

how they can help you I cannot see at all. For which of us says that

there is any fellowship between righteousness and unrighteousness,

even though the righteous and the unrighteous, as in the case of Judas

and Peter, should be alike partakers of the sacraments? For from one

and the same holy thing Judas received judgment to himself and Peter

salvation, just as you received the sacrament with Optatus, and, if you

were unlike him, were not therefore partakers in his robberies. Or is

robbery not unrighteousness? Who would be mad enough to assert that?

What fellowship was there, then, on the part of your righteousness with

his unrighteousness, when you approached together to the same altar?

* * * * *

CHAP. XLI.--97. PETILIANUS said: "And, again, he taught us that schisms

should not arise, in the following terms: 'Now this I say, that every

one of you saith, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and

I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye

baptized in the name of Paul?'"[830]

98. AUGUSTINE answered: Remember all of you who read this, it was

Petilianus who quoted these words from the apostle. For who could have

believed that he would have brought forward words which tell so much

for us against himself?

* * * * *

CHAP. XLII.--99. PETILIANUS said: "If Paul uttered these words to the

unlearned and to the righteous, I say this to you who are unrighteous,

Is Christ divided, that you should separate yourselves from the Church?"

100. AUGUSTINE answered: I am afraid lest any one should think that in

this work of mine the writer has made a mistake, and has written the

heading _Petilianus said_, when he ought to have written _Augustine

answered_. But I see what your object is: you wished, as it were, to

preoccupy the ground, lest we should bring those words in testimony

against you. But what have you really done, except to cause them to

be quoted twice? If, therefore, you are so much pleased with hearing

the words which make against you, as to render it necessary that they

should be repeated, hear, I pray you, these words as coming from me,

Petilianus: Is Christ divided, that you should separate yourselves from

the Church?

* * * * *

CHAP. XLIII.--101. PETILIANUS said: "Can it be that the traitor Judas

hung himself for you, or did he imbue you with his character, that,

following his deeds, you should seize on the treasures of the Church,

and sell for money to the powers of this world us who are the heirs of

Christ?"

102. AUGUSTINE answered: Judas did not die for us, but Christ, to

whom the Church dispersed throughout the world says, "So shall I

have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in Thy

word."[831] When, therefore, I hear the words of the Lord, saying,

"Ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea,

and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth,"[832] and

through the voice of His prophet, "Their sound is gone out through

all the earth, and their words into the ends of the world,"[833] no

bodily admixture of evil ever is able to disturb me, if I know how to

say, "Be surety to Thy servant for good: let not the proud oppress

me."[834] I do not, therefore, concern myself about a vain calumniation

when I have a substantial promise. But if you complain about matters

or places appertaining to the Church, which you used once to hold, and

hold no longer, then the Jews also may say that they are righteous,

and reproach us with unrighteousness, because the Christians now

occupy the place in which of old they impiously reigned. What then

is there unfitting, if, according to a similar will of the Lord, the

Catholics now hold the things which formerly the heretics used to

have? For against all such men as this, that is to say, against all

impious and unrighteous men, those words of the Lord have force, "The

kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation

bringing forth the fruits thereof;"[835] or is it written in vain, "The

righteous shall eat of the labours of the impious?"[836] Wherefore you

ought rather to be amazed that you still possess something, than that

there is something which you have lost. But neither need you wonder

even at this, for it is by degrees that the whitened wall falls down.

Yet look back at the followers of Maximianus, see what places they

possessed, and by whose agency and under whose attacks they were driven

from them, and do you venture, if you can, to say that to suffer things

like these is righteousness, while to do them is unrighteousness. In

the first place, because you did the deed, and they suffered them; and

secondly, because, according to the rule of this righteousness, you are

found to be inferior. For they were driven from the ancient places by

Catholic emperors acting through judges, while you are not even driven

forth by the mandates of the emperors themselves from the basilicas of

unity. For what reason is this, save that you are of less merit, not

only than the rest of your colleagues, but even than those very men

whom you assuredly condemned as guilty of sacrilege by the mouth of

your general Council?

* * * * *

CHAP. XLIV.--103. PETILIANUS said: "For we, as it is written, when we

are baptized, put on Christ who was betrayed;[837] you, when you are

infected, put on Judas the betrayer."

104. AUGUSTINE answered: I also might say, You when you are infected

put on Optatus the betrayer, the robber, the oppressor, the separater

of husband and wife; but far be it from me that the desire of returning

an evil word should provoke me into any falsehood: for neither do you

put on Optatus, nor we Judas. Therefore, if each one who comes to us

shall answer to our questions that he has been baptized in the name

of Optatus, he shall be baptized in the name of Christ; and if you

baptized any that came from us and said that they had been baptized in

the name of the traitor Judas, in that case we have no fault to find

with what you have done. But if they had been baptized in the name of

Christ, do you not see what an error you commit in thinking that the

sacraments of God can undergo change through any changeableness of

human sins, or be polluted by defilement in the life of any man?

* * * * *

CHAP. XLV.--105. PETILIANUS said: "But if these are the parties, the

name of member of a party is no prejudice against us. For there are

two ways, the one narrow, in which we walk; the other is for the

impious, wherein they shall perish. And yet, though the designations

be alike, there is a great difference in the reality, that the way of

righteousness should not be defiled by fellowship in a name."

106. AUGUSTINE answered: You have been afraid of the comparison of your

numbers with the multitude throughout the world; and therefore, in

order to win praise for the scantiness of your party, you have sought

to bring in the comparison of yourself walking in the narrow path.

Would to God that you had betaken yourself not to its praise, but to

the path itself! Truly you would have seen that there was the same

scantiness in the Church of all nations; but that the righteous are

said to be few in comparison with the multitude of the unrighteous,

just as, in comparison with the chaff, there may be said to be few

grains of corn in the most abundant crop, and yet these very grains of

themselves, when brought into a heap, fill the barn. For the followers

of Maximianus themselves will surpass you in this scantiness of number,

if you think that righteousness consists in this, as well as in the

persecution involved in the loss of places which they held.

* * * * *

CHAP. XLVI.--107. PETILIANUS said: "In the first Psalm David separates

the blessed from the impious, not indeed making them into parties,

but excluding all the impious from holiness. 'Blessed is the man that

walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of

sinners.' Let him who had strayed from the path of righteousness, so

that he should perish, return to it again. 'Nor sitteth in the seat of

the scornful.' When he gives this warning, O ye miserable men, why do

you sit in that seat? 'But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and

in His law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree

planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his

season: his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall

prosper. The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind

driveth away.' He blindeth their eyes, so that they should not see.

'Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in

the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knoweth the way of the

righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.'"

108. AUGUSTINE answered: Who is there in the Scriptures that would not

distinguish between these two classes of men? But you in your evil

speak indiscriminately, charge the corn with the offences of the chaff;

and being yourselves mere chaff, you boast yourselves to be the only

corn. But the true prophets declare that both these classes have been

mingled together throughout the whole world, that is, throughout the

whole corn-field of the Lord, until the winnowing which is to take

place on the day of judgment. But I advise you to read that first

Psalm in the Greek version, and then you will not venture to reproach

the whole world with being of the party of Macarius; because you will

perhaps come to understand of what Macarius there is a party among

all the saints, who throughout all nations are blessed in the seed of

Abraham. For what stands in our language as "Blessed is the man," is

in Greek [Greek: Makarios anêr]. But that Macarius who offends you,

if he is a bad man, neither belongs to this division, nor is to its

prejudice. But if he is a good man, let him prove his own work, that he

may have glory in himself alone, and not in another.[838]

* * * * *

CHAP. XLVII.--109. PETILIANUS said: "But the same Psalmist has sung

the praises of our baptism. 'The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not

want. He maketh me to lie down in the green pastures: He leadeth me

beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: He leadeth me in the

paths of righteousness for His name's sake. Yea, though I walk through

the valley of the shadow of death,'--though the persecutor, he means,

should slay me,--'I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me; Thy rod

and Thy staff comfort me.' It was by this that it conquered Goliath,

being armed with the anointing oil. 'Thou hast prepared a table before

me in the presence of mine enemies: Thou anointest my head with oil;

my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all

the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for

ever.'"[839]

110. AUGUSTINE answered: This psalm speaks of those who receive baptism

aright, and use as holy what is so holy. For those words have no

reference even to Simon Magus, who yet received the same holy baptism;

and because he would not use it in a holy way, he did not therefore

pollute it, or show that in such cases it should be repeated. But since

you have made mention of Goliath, listen to the psalm which treats of

Goliath himself, and see that he is portrayed in a new song; for there

it is said, "I will sing a new song unto Thee, O God: upon a psaltery,

and an instrument of ten strings, will I sing praise unto Thee."[840]

And see whether he belongs to this song who refuses to communicate

with the whole earth. For elsewhere it is said, "O sing unto the Lord

a new song; sing unto the Lord, all the earth."[841] Therefore the

whole earth, with whom you are not in unity, sings the new song. And

these too are the words of the whole earth, "The Lord is my shepherd,

I shall not want," etc. These are not the words of the tares, though

they be endured until the harvest in the same crop. They are not the

words of the chaff, but of the wheat, although they are nourished by

one and the same rain, and are threshed out on the same threshing-floor

at the same time, till they shall be separated the one from the other

by the winnowing at the last day. And yet these both assuredly have

the same baptism, though they are not the same themselves. But if

your party also were the Church of God, you would certainly confess

that this psalm has no application to the infuriated bands of the

Circumcelliones. Or if they too themselves are led through the paths

of righteousness, why do you deny that they are your associates, when

you are reproached with them, although, for the most part, you console

yourselves for the scantiness of your section, not by the rod and staff

of the Lord, but by the cudgels of the Circumcelliones, with which you

think that you are safe even against the Roman laws,--to bring oneself

into collision with which is surely nothing less than to walk through

the valley of the shadow of death? But he with whom the Lord is, fears

no evils. Surely, however, you will not venture to say that the words

which are sung in this song belong even to those infuriated men, and

yet you not only acknowledge, but ostentatiously set forth the fact

that they have baptism. These words, therefore, are not used by any

who are not refreshed by the holy water, as are all the righteous men

of God; not by those who are brought to destruction by using it, as

was that magician when baptized by Philip: and yet the water itself

in both kinds of men is the same, and of the same degree of sanctity.

These words are not used except by those who will belong to the right

hand; but yet both sheep and goats feed in the same pasture under one

Shepherd, until they shall be separated, that they may receive their

due reward. These words are not used except by those who, like Peter,

receive life from the table of the Lord, not judgment, as did Judas;

and yet the supper was itself the same to both, but it was not of the

same profit to both, because they were not one. These words are not

used except by those who, by being anointed with the sacred oil, are

blessed in spirit also, as was David; not merely consecrated in the

body only, as was Saul: and yet, as they had both received the same

outward sign, it was not the sacrament, but the personal merit that was

different in the two cases. These words are not used except by those

who, with converted heart, receive the cup of the Lord unto eternal

life; not by those who eat and drink damnation to themselves, as the

apostle says:[842] and yet, though they are not one, the cup which they

receive is one, exerting its power on the martyrs that they should

obtain a heavenly reward, not on the Circumcelliones, that they should

mark precipices with death. Remember, therefore, that the characters

of bad men in no wise interfere with the virtue of the sacraments, so

that their holiness should either be destroyed, or even diminished;

but that they injure the unrighteous men themselves, that they should

have them as witnesses of their damnation, not as aids to health. For

beyond all doubt you should have taken into consideration the actual

concluding words of this psalm, and have understood that, on account of

those who forsake the faith after they have been baptized, it cannot be

said by all who receive holy baptism that "I will dwell in the house

of the Lord for ever:" and yet, whether they abide in the faith, or

whether they have fallen away, though they themselves are not one,

their baptism is one, and though they themselves are not both holy, yet

the baptism in both is holy; because even apostates, if they return,

are not baptized as though they had lost the sacrament, but undergo

humiliation, because they have done despite to it remaining in them.

* * * * *

CHAP. XLVIII.--111. PETILIANUS said: "Yet that you should not call

yourselves holy, in the first place, I declare that no one has holiness

who has not led a life of innocence."

112. AUGUSTINE answered: Show us the tribunal where you have been

enthroned as judge, that the whole world should stand for trial before

you, and with what eyes you have inspected and discussed, I do not say

the consciences, but even the acts of all men, that you should say that

the whole world has lost its innocence. He who was carried up as far

as the third heaven says, "Yea, I judge not mine own self;"[843] and

do you venture to pronounce sentence on the whole world, throughout

which the inheritance of Christ is spread abroad? In the next place,

if what you have said appears to you to be sufficiently certain, that

"no one has holiness who has not led a life of innocence," I would ask

you, if Saul had not the holiness of the sacrament, what was in him

that David reverenced? But if he had innocence, why did he persecute

the innocent? For it was on account of the sanctity of his anointing

that David honoured him while alive, and avenged him after he was dead;

and because he cut off so much as a scrap from his garment, he trembled

with a panic-stricken heart. Here you see that Saul had not innocence,

and yet he had holiness,--not the personal holiness of a holy life

(for that no one can have without innocence), but the holiness of the

sacrament of God, which is holy even in unrighteous men.

* * * * *

CHAP. XLIX.--113. PETILIANUS said: "For, granting that you faithless

ones are acquainted with the law, without any prejudice to the law

itself, I may say so much as this, the devil knows it too. For in the

case of righteous Job he answered the Lord God concerning the law as

though he were himself righteous, as it is written, 'And the Lord said

unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none

like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth

God and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity,

although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. And

Satan answered the Lord, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will

he give for his life.'[844] Behold he speaks in legal phrase, even when

he is striving against the law. And a second time he endeavoured thus

to tempt the Lord Christ with his discourse, as it is written, 'The

devil taketh Jesus into the holy city, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of

the temple, and saith unto Him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself

down: for it is written, He shall give His angels charge over thee; and

in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy

foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou

shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.'[845] You know the law, I say, as

did the devil, who is conquered in his endeavours, and blushes in his

deeds."

114. AUGUSTINE answered: I might indeed ask of you in what law the

words are written which the devil used when he was uttering calumnies

against the holy man Job, if the position which I am set to prove

were this, that you yourself are unacquainted with the law which you

assert the devil to have known; but as this is not the question at

issue between us, I pass it by. But you have endeavoured in such sort

to prove that the devil is skilled in the law, as though we maintained

that all who know the law are just. Accordingly, I do not see in what

manner you are assisted by what you have chosen to quote concerning

the devil,--unless, indeed, it may be that we should be thereby

reminded how you imitate the devil himself. For as he brought forward

the words of the law against the Author of the law, so you also out

of the words of the law bring accusation against men whom you do not

know, that you may resist the promises of God which are made in that

very self-same law. Then I should be glad if you would tell me in

whose honour do those confessors of yours achieve their martyrdom,

when they throw themselves over precipices,--in honour of Christ, who

thrust the devil from Him when he made a like suggestion, or rather

in honour of the devil himself, who suggested such a deed to Christ?

There are two especially vile and customary deaths resorted to by those

who kill themselves,--hanging and the precipice. You assuredly said in

the earlier part of this epistle, "The traitor hung himself: he left

this death to all who are like him." This has no application whatever

to us; for we refuse to reverence with the name of martyr any who

have strangled themselves. With how much greater show of reason might

we say against you, That master of all traitors, the devil, wished

to persuade Christ to throw Himself headlong down, and was repulsed!

What, therefore, must we say of those whom he persuaded with success?

What, indeed, except that they are the enemies of Christ, the friends

of the devil, the disciples of the seducer, the fellow-disciples of

the traitor? For both have learned to kill themselves from the same

master,--Judas by hanging himself, the others by throwing themselves

over precipices.

* * * * *

CHAP. L.--115. PETILIANUS said: "But that we may destroy your arguments

one by one, if you call yourselves by the name of priests, it was said

by the Lord God, through the mouth of His prophet, 'The vengeance of

the Lord is upon the false priests.'"

116. AUGUSTINE answered: Seek rather what you may say with truth, not

whence you may derive abusive words; and what you may teach, not what

reproaches you may cast in our teeth.

* * * * *

CHAP. LI.--117. PETILIANUS said: "If you wretched men claim for

yourselves a seat, as we said before, you assuredly have that one of

which the prophet and psalmist David speaks as being the seat of the

scornful.[846] For to you it is rightly left, seeing that the holy

cannot sit therein."

118. AUGUSTINE answered: Here again you do not see that this is no kind

of argument, but empty abuse. For this is what I said a little while

ago, You utter the words of the law, but take no heed against whom you

utter them; just as the devil uttered the words of the law, but failed

to perceive to whom he uttered them. He wished to thrust down our Head,

who was presently to ascend on high; but you wish to reduce to a small

fraction the body of that same Head which is dispersed throughout the

entire world. Certainly you yourself said a little time before that we

know the law, and speak in legal terms, but blush in our deeds. Thus

much indeed you say without a proof of anything; but even though you

were to prove it of some men, you would not be entitled to assert it

of these others. However, if all men throughout all the world were of

the character which you most vainly charge them with, what has the

chair done to you of the Roman Church, in which Peter sat, and which

Anastasius fills to-day; or the chair of the Church of Jerusalem, in

which James once sat, and in which John sits to-day, with which we are

united in catholic unity, and from which you have severed yourselves

by your mad fury? Why do you call the apostolic chair a seat of the

scornful? If it is on account of the men whom you believe to use the

words of the law without performing it, do you find that our Lord Jesus

Christ was moved by the Pharisees, of whom He says, "They say, and

do not," to do any despite to the seat in which they sat? Did He not

commend the seat of Moses, and maintain the honour of the seat, while

He convicted those that sat in it? For He says, "They sit in Moses'

seat: all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and

do; but do ye not after their works: for they say, and do not."[847]

If you were to think of these things, you would not, on account of men

whom you calumniate, do despite to the apostolic seat, in which you

have no share. But what else is conduct like yours but ignorance of

what to say, combined with want of power to abstain from evil-speaking?

* * * * *

CHAP. LII.--119. PETILIANUS said: "If you suppose that you can offer

sacrifice, God Himself thus speaks of you as most abandoned sinners:

'The wicked man,' He says, 'that sacrificeth a calf is as if he cut

off a dog's neck; and he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered

swine's blood.'[848] Recognise herein your sacrifice, who have already

poured out human blood. And again He says, 'Their sacrifices shall

be unto them as the bread of mourners; all that eat thereof shall be

polluted.'"[849]

120. AUGUSTINE answered: We say that in the case of every man the

sacrifice that is offered partakes of the character of him who

approaches to offer it, or approaches to partake of it; and that those

eat of the sacrifices of such men, who in approaching to them partake

of the character of those who offer them. Therefore, if a bad man offer

sacrifice to God, and a good man receive it at his hands, the sacrifice

is to each man of such character as he himself has shown himself to

be, since we find it also written that "unto the pure all things are

pure."[850] In accordance with this true and catholic judgment, you too

are free from pollution by the sacrifice of Optatus, if you disapproved

of his deeds. For certainly his bread was the bread of mourners,

seeing that all Africa was mourning under his iniquities. But the evil

involved in the schism of all your party makes this bread of mourners

common to you all. For, according to the judgment of your Council,

Felicianus of Musti was a shedder of man's blood. For you said, in

condemning them,[851] "Their feet are swift to shed blood."[852] See

therefore what kind of sacrifice he offers whom you hold to be a

priest, when you have yourselves convicted him of sacrilege. And if you

think that this is in no way to your prejudice, I would ask you how the

emptiness of your calumnies can be to the prejudice of the whole world?

* * * * *

CHAP. LIII.--121. PETILIANUS said: "If you make prayer to God, or

utter supplication, it profits you absolutely nothing whatsoever.

For your blood-stained conscience makes your feeble prayers of no

effect; because the Lord God regards purity of conscience more than

the words of supplication, according to the saying of the Lord Christ,

'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the

kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in

heaven.'[853] The will of God unquestionably is good, for therefore we

pray as follows in the holy prayer, 'Thy will be done in earth, as it

is in heaven,'[854] that, as His will is good, so it may confer on us

whatever may be good. You therefore do not do the will of God, because

you do what is evil every day."

122. AUGUSTINE answered: If we on our side were to utter against you

all that you assert against us, would not any one who heard us consider

that we were rather insane litigants than Christian disputants, if he

himself were in his senses? We do not, therefore, render railing for

railing. For it is not fitting that the servant of the Lord should

strive; but he should be gentle unto all men, willing to learn, in

meekness instructing those that oppose themselves.[855] If, therefore,

we reproach you with those who daily do what is evil among you, we

are guilty of striving unbefittingly, accusing one for the sins of

another. But if we admonish you, that as you are unwilling that these

things should be brought against yourselves, so you should abstain from

bringing against us the sins of other men, we then in meekness are

instructing you, solely in the hopes that some time you will return to

a better mind.

* * * * *

CHAP. LIV.--123. PETILIANUS said: "But if it should so happen, though

whether it be so I cannot say, that you cast out devils, neither will

this in you do any good; because the devils themselves yield neither

to your faith nor to your merits, but are driven out in the name of the

Lord Jesus Christ."

124. AUGUSTINE answered: God be thanked that you have at length

confessed that the invocation of the name of Christ may be of profit

for the salvation of others, even though it be invoked by sinners!

Hence, therefore, you may understand that when the name of Christ is

invoked, the sins of one man do not stand in the way of the salvation

of another. But to determine in what manner we invoke the name of

Christ, we require not your judgment, but the judgment of Christ

Himself who is invoked by us; for He alone can know in what spirit He

is invoked. Yet from His own words we are assured that He is invoked to

their salvation by all nations, who are blessed in the seed of Abraham.

* * * * *

CHAP. LV.--125. PETILIANUS said: "Even though you do very virtuous

actions, and perform miraculous works, yet on account of your

wickedness the Lord does not know you; even so, according to the words

of the Lord Himself, 'Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have

we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils?

and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto

them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'"[856]

126. AUGUSTINE answered: We acknowledge the word of the Lord. Hence

also the apostle says, "Though I have all faith, so that I could remove

mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."[857] Here therefore we

must inquire who it is that has charity: you will find that it is no

one else but those who are lovers of unity. For as to the driving out

of devils, and as to the working of miracles, seeing that very many

do not do such things who yet belong to the kingdom of God, and very

many do them who do not belong to it, neither our party nor your party

have any cause for boasting, if any of them chance to have this power,

since the Lord did not think it right that even the apostles, who could

truly do such things both to profit and salvation, should boast in

things like this, when He says to them, "In this rejoice not, that the

spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names

are written in heaven."[858] Wherefore all those things which you have

advanced from the writings of the gospel I also might repeat to you,

if I saw you working the powerful acts of signs and miracles; and so

might you repeat them to me, if you saw me doing things of a like sort.

Let us not, therefore, say one to another what may equally be said on

the other side as well; and, putting aside all quibbles, since we are

inquiring where the Church of Christ is to be found, let us listen to

the words of Christ Himself, who redeemed it with His own blood: "Ye

shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and

in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."[859] You see

then who it is with whom a man refuses to communicate who will not

communicate with this Church, which is spread throughout all the world,

if at least you hear whose words these are. For what is a greater proof

of madness than to hold communion with the sacraments of the Lord, and

to refuse to hold communion with the words of the Lord? Such men at

any rate are likely to say, In Thy name have we eaten and drunken, and

to hear the words, "I never knew you,"[860] seeing that they eat His

body and drink His blood in the sacrament, and do not recognise in the

gospel His members which are spread abroad throughout the earth, and

therefore are not themselves counted among them in the judgment.

* * * * *

CHAP. LVI.--127. PETILIANUS said: "But even if, as you yourselves

suppose, you are following the law of the Lord in purity, let us

nevertheless consider the question of the most holy law itself in a

legal form. The Apostle Paul says, 'The law is good, if a man use it

lawfully.'[861] What then does the law say? 'Thou shalt not kill.'

What Cain the murderer did once, you have often done, in slaying your

brethren."

128. AUGUSTINE answered: We do not wish to be like you: for there are

not wanting words which might be uttered, as you too utter these; and

known also, for you do not know these; and set forth in the conduct of

a life, as these are not set forth by you.

* * * * *

CHAP. LVII.--129. PETILIANUS said: "It is written, 'Thou shalt not

commit adultery.' Each one of you, even though he be chaste in his

body, yet in spirit is an adulterer, because he pollutes his holiness."

130. AUGUSTINE answered: These words also might be spoken with truth

against certain both of our number and of yours; but if their deeds

are condemned by us and you alike, they belong to neither us nor you.

But you wish that what you say against certain men, without proving

it even in their especial case, should be taken just as if you had

established it,--not in the case of some who have fallen away from the

seed of Abraham, but in reference to all the nations of the earth who

are blessed in the seed of Abraham.

* * * * *

CHAP. LVIII.--131. PETILIANUS said: "It is written, 'Thou shalt not

bear false witness against thy neighbour.' When you falsely declare to

the kings of this world that we hold your opinions, do you not make up

a falsehood?"

132. AUGUSTINE answered: If those are not our opinions which you hold,

neither were they your opinions which you received from the followers

of Maximianus. But if they were therefore yours, because they were

guilty of a sacrilegious schism in not communicating with the party of

Donatus, take heed what ground you occupy, and with whose inheritance

you refuse communion, and consider what answer you can make, not to

the kings of this world, but to Christ your King. Of Him it is said,

"He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto

the ends of the earth."[862] From what river does it mean, save that

where He was baptized, and where the dove descended on Him, that

mighty token of charity and unity? But you refuse communion with this

unity, and occupy as yet the place of unity; and you bring us into

disfavour with the kings of this world in making use of the edicts of

the proconsul to expel your schismatics from the place of the party of

Donatus. These are not mere words flying at random through the empty

void: the men are still alive, the states bear witness to the fact,

the archives of the proconsuls and of the several towns are quoted in

evidence of it. Let then the voice of calumny be at length silent,

which would bring up against the whole earth the kings of this world,

through whose proconsuls you, yourselves a fragment, would not spare

the fragment which was separated from you. When then we say that you

hold our opinions, we are not shown to be bearing false witness, unless

you can show that we are not in the Church of Christ, which indeed you

never cease alleging, but never will be able to establish; nay, in real

truth, when you say this, you are bringing a charge of false witness

no longer against us, but against the Lord Himself. For we are in the

Church which was foretold by His own testimony, and where He bore

witness to His witnesses, saying, "Ye shall be witnesses unto me both

in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost

part of the earth." But you show yourselves to be false witnesses not

only from this, that you resist this truth, but also in the very trial

in which you joined issue with the schism of Maximianus. For if you

were acting according to the law of Christ, how much more consistently

do certain Christian emperors frame ordinances in accordance with it,

if even pagan proconsuls can follow its behests in passing judgment?

But if you thought that even the laws of an earthly empire were to be

summoned to your aid, we do not blame you for this. It is what Paul

did when he bore witness before his adversaries that he was a Roman

citizen.[863] But I would ask by what earthly laws it is ordained that

the followers of Maximianus should be driven from their place? You

will find no law whatever to this effect. But, in point of fact, you

have chosen to expel them under laws which have been passed against

heretics, and against yourselves among their number. You, as though by

superior strength, have prevailed against the weak. Whence they, being

wholly powerless, say that they are innocent, like the wolf in the

power of the lion. Yet surely you could not use laws which were passed

against yourselves as instruments against others, except by the aid

of false witness. For if those laws are founded on truth, then do you

come down from the position which you occupy; but if on falsehood, why

did you use them to drive others from the Church? But how if they both

are founded on truth, and could not be used by you for the expulsion

of others except with the aid of falsehood? For that the judges might

submit to their authority, they were willing to expel heretics from

the Church, from which they ought first to have expelled yourselves;

but you declared yourselves to be Catholics, that you might escape the

severity of the laws which you employed to oppress others. It is for

you to determine what you appear to yourselves among yourselves; at any

rate, under those laws you are not Catholics. Why then have you either

made them false, if they are true, by your false witness, or made use

of them, if they are false, for the oppression of others?

* * * * *

CHAP. LIX.--133. PETILIANUS said: "It is written, 'Thou shalt not covet

anything that is thy neighbour's.'[864] You plunder what is ours, that

you may have it for your own."

134. AUGUSTINE answered: All things of which unity was in possession

belong to none other than ourselves, who remain in unity, not in

accordance with the calumnies of men, but with the words of Christ,

in whom all the nations of the whole earth are blessed. Nor do we

separate ourselves from the society of the wheat, on account of the

unrighteous men whom we cannot separate from the wheat of the Lord

before the winnowing at the judgment; and if there are any things

which you who are cut off begin already to possess, we do not, because

the Lord has given to us what has been taken away from you, therefore

covet our neighbours' goods, seeing that they have been made ours by

the authority of Him to whom all things belong; and they are rightly

ours, for you were wont to use them for purposes of schism, but we use

them for the promotion of unity. Otherwise your party might reproach

even the first people of God with coveting their neighbours' goods,

seeing that they were driven forth before their face by the power of

God, because they used the land amiss; and the Jews in turn themselves,

from whom the kingdom was taken away, according to the words of the

Lord, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof,[865] may

bring a charge against that nation of coveting their neighbours' goods,

because the Church of Christ is in possession where the persecutors of

Christ were wont to reign. And, after all, when it has been said to

yourselves, You are coveting the goods of other men, because you have

driven out from the basilicas the followers of Maximianus, you are at a

loss to find any answer that you can make.

* * * * *

CHAP. LX.--135. PETILIANUS said: "Under what law, then, do you make out

that you are Christians, seeing that you do what is contrary to the

law?"

136. AUGUSTINE answered: You are anxious for strife, and not for

argument.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXI.--137. PETILIANUS said: "But the Lord Christ says, 'Whosoever

shall do and teach them, the same shall be called the greatest in

the kingdom of heaven.' But He condemns you wretched men as follows:

'Whosoever shall break one of these commandments, he shall be called

the least in the kingdom of heaven.'"

138. AUGUSTINE answered: When you happen to quote the testimony of

Scripture as other than it really is, and it does not bear on the

question which is at issue between us, I am not greatly concerned; but

when it interferes with the matter on hand, unless it is quoted truly,

then I think that you have no right to find fault if I remind you how

the passage really stands. For you must be aware that the verse which

you quoted is not as you quoted it, but rather thus: "Whosoever shall

break one of the least of these commandments, and shall teach men so,

shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall

do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of

heaven." And immediately He continues, "For I say unto you, That except

your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and

Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."[866]

For elsewhere He shows and proves of the Pharisees that they say and do

not. It is these, therefore, to whom He is referring also here, when

He said, "Whosoever shall break one of these commandments, and shall

teach men so,"--that is, shall teach in words what he has violated in

deeds; whose righteousness He says that our righteousness must excel,

in that we must both keep the commandments and teach men so. And yet

not even on account of those Pharisees, with whom you compare us,--not

from any motives of prudence, but from malice,--did our Lord enjoin

that the seat of Moses should be deserted, which seat He doubtless

meant to be a figure of His own; for He said indeed that they who sat

in Moses' seat were ever saying and not doing, but warns the people

to do what they say, and not to do what they do,[867] lest the chair,

with all its holiness, should be deserted, and the unity of the flock

divided through the faithlessness of the shepherds.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXII.--139. PETILIANUS said: "And again it is written, 'Every

sin which a man shall sin is without the body: but he that sinneth in

the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world,

neither in the world to come.'"

140. AUGUSTINE answered: This too is not written as you have quoted

it, and see how far it has led you astray. The apostle, writing to the

Corinthians, says, "Every sin that a man doeth is without the body:

but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."[868]

But this is one thing, and that is another which the Lord said in the

gospel: "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:

but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven

him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."[869] But you

have begun a sentence from the writing of the apostle, and ended it as

though it were one from the gospel, which I fancy you have done not

with any intention to deceive, but through mistake; for neither passage

has any bearing on the matter in hand. And why you have said this, and

in what sense you have said it, I am wholly unable to perceive, unless

it be that, whereas you had said above that all were condemned by the

Lord who had broken any one of His commandments, you have considered

since how many there are in your party who break not one but many of

them; and lest an objection should be brought against you on that

score, you have sought, by way of surpassing the difficulty, to bring

in a distinction of sins, whereby it might be seen that it is one

thing to break a commandment in respect of which pardon may easily be

obtained, another thing to sin against the Holy Ghost, which shall

receive no forgiveness, either in this world or in the world to come.

In your dread, therefore, of infection from sin, you were unwilling to

pass this over in silence; and again, in your dread of a question too

deep for your powers, you wish to touch cursorily on it in passing, in

such a state of agitation, that, just as men who are setting about a

task in haste, and consequent confusion, are wont to fasten their dress

or shoes awry, so you have not thought fit either to see what belongs

to what, or in what context or what sense the passage which you quote

occurs. But what is the nature of that sin which shall not be forgiven,

either in this world or in the world to come, you are so far from

knowing, that, though you believe that we are actually living in it,

you yet promise us forgiveness of it through your baptism. And yet how

could this be possible, if the sin be of such a nature that it cannot

be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come?

* * * * *

CHAP. LXIII.--141. PETILIANUS said: "But wherein do you fulfil the

commandments of God? The Lord Christ said, 'Blessed are the poor in

spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.' But you by your malice in

persecution breathe forth the riches of madness."

142. AUGUSTINE answered: Address that rather to your own

Circumcelliones.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXIV.--143. PETILIANUS said: "'Blessed are the meek: for they

shall inherit the earth.' You therefore, not being meek, have lost both

heaven and earth alike."

144. AUGUSTINE answered: Again and again you may hear the Lord saying,

"Ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and

in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."[870] How is it,

then, that those men have not lost heaven and earth, who, in order

to avoid communicating with all the nations of the earth, despise the

words of Him that sitteth in heaven? For, in proof of your meekness, it

is not your words but the cudgels of the Circumcelliones which should

be examined. You will say, What has that to do with us? Just as though

we were making the remark with any other object except to extract that

answer from you. For the reason that your schism is a valid charge

against you is that you do not allow that you are chargeable with

another's sin, whereas you have separated from us for no other reason

but that you charge us with the sins of other men.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXV.--145. PETILIANUS said: "'Blessed are they that mourn: for

they shall be comforted.' You, our butchers, are the cause of mourning

in others; you do not mourn yourselves."

146. AUGUSTINE answered: Consider for a short space to how many, and

with what intensity, the cry of "Praises be to God," proceeding from

your armed men, has caused others to mourn.[871] Do you say again, What

is that to us? Then I too will rejoin again in your own words, What is

that to us? What is it to all the nations of the earth? What is it to

those who praise the name of the Lord from the rising of the sun to

the setting of the same? What is it to all the earth, which sings a

new song? What is it to the seed of Abraham, in which all the nations

of the earth are blessed?[872] And so the sacrilege of your schism is

chargeable on you, just because the evil deeds of your companions are

not chargeable on you; and because you are aware from this that the

deeds of those on whose account you separated from the world, even if

you proved your charges to be true, do not involve the world in sin.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXVI.--147. PETILIANUS said: "'Blessed are they which do hunger

and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.' To you it

seems to be righteousness that you thirst after our blood."

148. AUGUSTINE answered: What shall I say unto thee, O man, except that

thou art calumnious? The unity of Christ, indeed, is hungering and

thirsting after all of you; and I would that it might swallow you up,

for then would you be no longer heretics.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXVII.--149. PETILIANUS said: "'Blessed are the merciful: for

they shall obtain mercy.' But how shall I call you merciful when you

inflict punishment on the righteous? Shall I not rather call you a most

unrighteous communion, so long as you pollute souls?"

150. AUGUSTINE answered: You have proved neither point,--neither that

you yourselves are righteous, nor that we inflict punishment on even

the unrighteous; and yet, even as false flattery is generally cruel,

so just correction is ever merciful. For whence is that which you do

not understand: "Let the righteous smite me, it shall be a kindness;

and let him reprove me?" For while he says this of the severity of

merciful correction, the Psalmist immediately went on to say of the

gentleness of destructive flattery, "But the oil of sinners shall not

break my head."[873] Do you therefore consider whither you are called,

and from what you are summoned away. For how do you know what feelings

he entertains towards you whom you suppose to be cruel? But whatever be

his feelings, every one must bear his own burden both with us and with

you. But I would have you cast away the burden of schism which you all

of you are bearing, that you may bear your good burdens in unity; and

I would bid you mercifully correct, if you should have the power, all

those who are bearing evil burdens; and if this be beyond your power, I

would bid you bear with them in peace.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXVIII.--151. PETILIANUS said: "'Blessed are the pure in heart:

for they shall see God.' When will you see God, who are possessed with

blindness in the impure malice of your hearts?"

152. AUGUSTINE answered: Wherefore say you this? Can it be that we

reproach all nations with the dark and hidden things which are declared

by men, and do not choose to understand the manifest sayings which God

spake in olden time of all the nations of the earth? This is indeed

great blindness of heart; and if you do not recognise it in yourselves,

that is even greater blindness.

* * * * *

153. PETILIANUS said: "'Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be

called the children of God.'[874] You make a pretence of peace by your

wickedness, and seek unity by war."

154. AUGUSTINE answered: We do not make a pretence of peace by

wickedness, but we preach peace out of the gospel; and if you were at

peace with it, you would be at peace also with us. The risen Lord, when

presenting Himself to the disciples, not only that they should gaze on

Him with their eyes, but also that they should handle Him with their

hands, began His discourse to them with the words, "Peace be unto you."

And how this peace itself was to be maintained, He disclosed to them

in the words which followed. For "then opened He their understanding,

that they might understand the Scriptures, and said unto them, Thus is

it written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the

dead the third day; and that repentance and remission of sins should be

preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."[875]

If you will keep peace with these words, you will not be at variance

with us. For if we seek unity by war, our war could not be praised

in more glorious terms, seeing that it is written, "Thou shalt love

thy neighbour as thyself."[876] And again it is written, "No man ever

yet hated his own flesh."[877] And yet the flesh lusteth against the

spirit, and the spirit against the flesh.[878] But if no man ever yet

hated his own flesh, and yet a man lusteth against his own flesh,

here you have unity sought by war, that the body, being subject to

correction, may be brought under submission. But what the spirit does

against the flesh, waging war with it, not in hatred, but in love, this

those who are spiritual do against those who are carnal, that they may

do towards them what they do towards themselves, because they love

their neighbours as neighbours indeed. But the war which the spiritual

wage is that correction which is in love: their sword is the word of

God. To such a war they are aroused by the trumpet of the apostle

sounding with a mighty force: "Preach the word; be instant in season,

out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all long-suffering and

doctrine."[879] See then that we act not with the sword, but with the

word. But you answer what is not true, while you accuse us falsely. You

do not correct your own faults, and you bring against us those of other

men. Christ bears true witness concerning the nations of the earth;

you, in opposition to Christ, bear false witness against the nations of

the earth. If we were to believe you rather than Christ, you would call

us peacemakers; because we believe Christ rather than you, we are said

to make a pretence of peace by our wickedness. And while you say and do

such things as this, you have the further impudence to quote the words,

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of

God."

* * * * *

CHAP. LXIX.--155. PETILIANUS said: "Though the Apostle Paul says, 'I

therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you, brethren, that ye

walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness

and meekness, forbearing one another in love; endeavouring to keep the

unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.'"[880]

156. AUGUSTINE answered: If you would not only say these words, but

hearken to them as well, you would put up even with known evils for

the sake of peace, instead of inventing new ones for the sake of

quarrelling, if it were only because you subsequently learned, for

the sake of the peace of Donatus, to put up with the most flagrant

and notorious wickedness of Optatus. What madness is this that you

display? Those who are known are borne with, that a fragment may not

be further split up; those of whom nothing is known are defamed, that

they themselves may not remain in the undivided whole.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXX.--157. PETILIANUS said: "To you the prophet says, 'Peace,

peace; and where is there peace?'"[881]

158. AUGUSTINE answered: It is you that say this to us, not the

prophet. We therefore answer you: If you ask where peace is to be

found, open your eyes, and see of whom it is said, "He maketh wars to

cease in all the world."[882] If you ask where peace is to be found,

open your eyes to see that city which cannot be hidden, because it is

built upon a hill; open your eyes to see the mountain itself, and let

Daniel show it to you, growing out of a small stone, and filling the

whole earth.[883] But when the prophet says to you, "Peace, peace; and

where is there peace?" what will you show? Will you show the party of

Donatus, unknown to the countless nations to whom Christ is known? It

is surely not the city which cannot be hid; and whence is this, except

that it is not founded on the mountain? "For He is our peace, who hath

made both one,"[884]--not Donatus, who has made one into two.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXI.--159. PETILIANUS said: "'Blessed are they which are

persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of

heaven.'[885] You are not blessed; but you make martyrs to be blessed,

with whose souls the heavens are filled, and the earth has flourished

with their memory. You therefore do not honour them yourselves, but you

provide us with objects of honour."

160. AUGUSTINE answered: The plain fact is, that if it had not been

said, "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake,"

but had been said instead, Blessed are they who throw themselves over

precipices, then heaven would have been filled with your martyrs. Of a

truth we see many flowers on the earth blooming from their bodies; but,

as the saying goes, the flower is dust and ashes.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXII.--161. PETILIANUS said: "Since then you are not blessed

by falsifying the commands of God, the Lord Christ condemns you by

His divine decrees: 'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go

in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe

unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and

land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, ye make him twofold

more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, scribes and

Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint, and anise, and cummin,

and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy,

and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other

undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto

whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but are

within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye

also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of

hypocrisy and iniquity.'"[886]

162. AUGUSTINE answered: Tell me whether you have said anything which

may not equally be said against you in turn by any slanderous and

evil-speaking tongue. But from what has been said by me before, any

one who wishes may find out that these things may be said against you,

not by way of empty abuse, but with the support of truthful testimony.

As, however, the opportunity is presented to us, we must not pass this

by. There is no doubt that to the ancient people of God circumcision

stood in the place of baptism. I ask, therefore, putting the case that

the Pharisees, against whom those words you quote are spoken, had made

some proselyte, who, if he were to imitate them, would, as it is said,

become twofold more the child of hell than themselves, supposing that

he were to be converted, and desire to imitate Simeon, or Zacharias, or

Nathanael, would it be necessary that he should be circumcised again

by them? And if it is absurd to put this case, why, although in empty

fashion and with empty sounds you compare us to men like this, do you

nevertheless baptize after us? But if you are really men like this,

how much better and how much more in accordance with truth do we act

in not baptizing after you, as neither was it right that those whom

I have mentioned should be circumcised after the worst of Pharisees!

Furthermore, when such men sit in the seat of Moses, for which the Lord

preserved its due honour, why do you blaspheme the apostolic chair on

account of men whom, justly or unjustly, you compare with these?

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXIII.--163. PETILIANUS said: "But these things do not alarm us

Christians; for of the evil deeds which you are destined to commit we

have before a warning given us by the Lord Christ. 'Behold,' He says,

'I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves.'[887] You fill up

the measure of the madness of wolves, who either lay or are preparing

to lay snares against the Churches in precisely the same way in which

wolves, with their mouths wide open against the fold, even with

destructive eagerness, breathe forth panting anger from their jaws,

suffused with blood."

164. AUGUSTINE answered: I should be glad to utter the same sentiment

against you, but not in the words which you have used: they are too

inappropriate, or rather mad. But what was required was, that you

should show that we were wolves and that you were sheep, not by the

emptiest of evil-speaking, but by some distinct proofs. For when I too

have said, We are sheep, and you are wolves, do you think that there is

any difference caused by the fact that you express the idea in swelling

words? But listen whilst I prove what I assert. For the Lord says in

the gospel, as you know full well, whether you please it or not, "My

sheep hear my voice, and follow me."[888] There are many sayings of

the Lord on different subjects; but supposing, for example, that any

one were in doubt whether the same Lord had risen in the body, and

His words were to be quoted where He says, "Handle me, and see; for a

spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have;"--if even after

this he should be unwilling to acquiesce in the belief that His body

had risen from the dead, surely such a man could not be reckoned among

the sheep of the Lord, because he would not hear His voice. And so too

now, when the question between us is, Where is the Church? whilst we

quote the words that follow in the same passage of the gospel, where,

after His resurrection, He gave His body even to be handled by those

who were in doubt, in which He showed the future wide extent of the

Church, saying, "Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to

suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day; and that repentance

and remission of sins should be preached in His name throughout all

nations, beginning at Jerusalem;"[889] whereas you will not communicate

with all nations, in whom these words have been fulfilled, how are you

the sheep of this Shepherd, whose words you not only do not obey when

you have heard them, but even fight against them? And so we show to you

from this that you are not sheep. But listen further whence we show

you that, on the contrary, you are wolves. For necessarily, when it

is shown by His own words where the Church is to be found, it is also

clear where we must look for the fold of Christ. Whenever, therefore,

any sheep separate themselves from this fold, which is expressly

pointed out and shown to us by the unmistakeable declaration of the

Lord,--and that, I will not say because of charges falsely brought,

but on account of charges brought, as no one can deny, with great

uncertainty against their fellow-men, and consequently slay those sheep

which they have torn and alienated from the life of unity and Christian

love,--is it not evident that they are ravening wolves? But it will

be said that these very men themselves praise and preach the Lord

Christ. They are therefore those of whom He says Himself, "They come

unto you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

By their fruits ye shall know them."[890] The sheep's clothing is seen

in the praises of Christ; the fruits of their wolfish nature in their

slanderous teeth.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXIV.--165. PETILIANUS said: "O wretched _traditors_! Thus

indeed it was fitting that Scripture should be fulfilled. But in you I

grieve for this, that you have shown yourselves worthy to fulfil the

part of wickedness."

166. AUGUSTINE answered: I might rather say, O wretched _traditors!_

if I were minded, or rather if justice urged me to cast up against

all of you the deeds of some among your number. But as regards what

bears on all of you, O wretched heretics, I on my part will quote

the remainder of your words; for it is written, "There must be also

heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest

among you."[891] Therefore "it was fitting thus that Scripture should

be fulfilled. But in you I grieve for this, that you have shown

yourselves worthy to fulfil the part of wickedness."

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXV.--167. PETILIANUS said: "But to us the Lord Christ, in

opposition to your deadly commands, commanded simple patience and

harmlessness. For what says He? 'A new commandment I give unto you,

That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love

one another.' And again, 'By this shall all men know that ye are my

disciples, if ye have love one to another.'"[892]

168. AUGUSTINE answered: If you did not transfer these words, so widely

differing from your character, to the surface of your talk, how could

you be covering yourselves with sheep's clothing?

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXVI.--169. PETILIANUS said: "Paul also, the apostle, whilst

he was suffering fearful persecutions at the hands of all nations,

endured even more grievous troubles at the hands of false brethren, as

he bears witness of himself, being oftentimes afflicted: 'In perils

by the heathen, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils among

false brethren.'[893] And again he says, 'Be ye followers of me, even

as I also am of Christ.'[894] When, therefore, false brethren like

yourselves assault us, we imitate the patience of our master Paul under

our dangers."

170. AUGUSTINE answered: Certainly those of whom you speak are false

brethren, of whom the apostle thus complains in another place, where

he is extolling the natural sincerity of Timothy: "I have no man,"

he says, "like-minded, who will naturally care for your state. For

all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's."[895]

Undoubtedly he was speaking of those who were with him at the time when

he was writing that epistle; for it could not be that all Christians in

every quarter of the earth were seeking their own, and not the things

which were Jesus Christ's. It was of those, therefore, as I said, who

were with him at the time when he was writing the words which you have

quoted, that he uttered this lamentation. For who else was it to whom

he referred, when he says in another place, "Without were fightings,

within were fears,"[896] except those whom he feared all the more

intensely because they were within? If, therefore, you would imitate

Paul, you would be tolerant of false brethren within, not a slanderer

of the innocent without.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXVII.--171. PETILIANUS said: "For what kind of faith is that

which is in you which is devoid of charity? when Paul himself says,

'Though I speak with the tongues of men, and have the knowledge of

angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a

tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand

all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that

I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And

though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my

body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.'"

172. AUGUSTINE answered: This is what I said just now, that you were

desirous to be clad in sheep's clothing, that, if possible, the sheep

might feel your bite before it had any consciousness of your approach.

Is it not that praise of charity in which you indulge that commonly

proves your calumny in the clearest light of truth? Will you bring it

about that those arms shall be no longer ours, because you endeavour

to appropriate them first? Furthermore, these arms are endowed with

life: from whatever quarter they are launched, they recognise whom

they should destroy. If they have been sent forth from our hands, they

will fix themselves in you; if they are aimed by you, they recoil upon

yourselves. For in these apostolic words, which commend the excellence

of charity, we are wont to show to you how profitless it is to man that

he should be in possession of faith or of the sacraments, when he has

not charity, that, when you come to Catholic unity, you may understand

what it is that is conferred on you, and how great a thing it is of

which you were at least to some extent in want; for Christian charity

cannot be preserved except in the unity of the Church: and that so you

may see that without it you are nothing, even though you may be in

possession of baptism and faith, and through this latter may be able

even to remove mountains. But if this is your opinion as well, let us

not repudiate and reject in you either the sacraments of God which we

know, or faith itself, but let us hold fast charity, without which we

are nothing even with the sacraments and with faith. But we hold fast

charity if we cling to unity; while we cling to unity, if we do not

make a fictitious unity in a party by our own words, but recognise it

in a united whole through the words of Christ.

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXVIII.--173. PETILIANUS said: "And again, 'Charity suffereth

long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself,

is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not

her own.' But you seek what belongs to other men. 'Is not easily

provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth

in the truth; beareth all things, endureth all things. Charity never

faileth.'[897] This is to say, in short, Charity does not persecute,

does not inflame emperors to take away the lives of other men; does not

plunder other men's goods; does not go on to murder men whom it has

spoiled."

174. AUGUSTINE answered: How often must I tell you the same thing? If

you do not prove these charges, they tell against no one in the world;

and if you prove them, they have no bearing upon us; just as those

things have no bearing upon you which are daily done by the furious

deeds of the insane, by the luxury of the drunken, by the blindness

of the suicides, by the tyranny of robbers. For who can fail to see

that what I say is true? But now if charity were in you, it would

rejoice in the truth. For how neatly it is said under covering of the

sheep's clothing, "Charity beareth all things, endureth all things!"

but when you come to the test, the wolf's teeth cannot be concealed.

For when, in obedience to the words of Scripture, "forbearing one

another in love, endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the

bond of peace,"[898] charity would compel you, even if you knew of any

evils within the Church, I do not say to consent to them, but yet to

tolerate them if you could not prevent them, lest, on account of the

wicked who are to be separated by the winnowing-fan at the last day,

you should at the present time sever the bond of peace by breaking off

from the society of good men, you, resisting her influence, and being

cast out by the wind of levity, charge the wheat with being chaff,

and declare that what you invent of the wicked holds good through the

force of contagion even in the righteous. And when the Lord has said,

"The field is the world, the harvest is the end of the world," though

He said of the wheat and of the tares, "Let both grow together until

the harvest,"[899] you endeavour by your words to bring about a belief

that the wheat has perished throughout the main portion of the field,

and only continued to exist in your little corner,--being desirous

that Christ should be proved a liar, but you the man of truth. And you

speak, indeed, against your own conscience; for no one who in any way

looks truly at the gospel will venture in his heart to say that in all

the many nations throughout which is heard the response of Amen, and

among whom Alleluia is sung almost with one single voice, no Christians

are to be found. And yet, that it may not appear that the party of

Donatus, which does not communicate with the several nations of the

world, is involved in error, if any angel from heaven, who could see

the whole world, were to declare that outside your communion good and

innocent men were nowhere to be found, there is little doubt that you

would rejoice over the iniquity of the human race, and boast of having

told the truth before you had received assurance of it. How then is

there in you that charity which rejoices not in iniquity? But be not

deceived. Throughout the field, that is, throughout the world, there

will be found the wheat of the Lord growing till the end of the world.

Christ has said this: Christ is truth. Let charity be in you, and let

it rejoice in the truth. Though an angel from heaven preach unto you

another gospel contrary to His gospel, let him be accursed.[900]

* * * * *

CHAP. LXXIX.--175. PETILIANUS said: "Lastly, what is the justification

of persecution? I ask you, you wretched men, if it so be that you think

that your sin rests on any authority of law."

176. AUGUSTINE answered: He who sins, sins not on the authority of the

law, but against the authority of the law. But since you ask what is

the justification of persecution, I ask you in turn whose voice it is

that says in the psalm, "Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him

will I cut off."[901] Seek therefore the reason or the measure of the

persecution, and do not display your gross ignorance by finding fault

in general terms with those who persecute the unrighteous.

* * * * *