killed me. It killed all the people. Nobody ain't been able to do
nothin' since they passed the stock law. I had seventy-five hogs and
twenty cows. They made a law you had to keep them chickens up, keep them
hogs up, keep them cows up. They shoots at every right thing, and the
wrong things they don't shoot at. God don't uphold no man to set you up
in the jail when you ain't done nothin'. You didn't have no privilege
then (slave time), and you ain't got none now."
Interviewer: Pernella Anderson, colored.
El Dorado Division
Federal Writers' Project
Union County. Arkansas
_EX-SLAVE AND RIDDLES_
"I was born in the Junction city community and belonged to the Cooks. I
was ten years old at surrender. Mother and father had 12 children and we
lived in a one room log cabin and cooked on a fireplace and oven. Mos
and Miss Cook did not allow ma and pa to whip me. When ever I do
something and I knew I was going to get a whipping I would make it to
old Miss. She would keep me from getting that whipping. I was a devilish
boy. I would do everything in the world I could think of just for
devilment. Old mos was sure good to his slaves. I never went to school
a day in my life. Old Miss would carry me to church sometimes when it
was hot so we could fan for her. We used palmeter fan leaves for fans.
We ate pretty good in slavery time, but we did not have all of this late
stuff. Some of our dishes was possum stew, vegetables, persimmon pie and
tato bread. Ma did not allow us to sit around grown folks. When they
were talking she always made us get under the bed. Our bed was made from
pine poles. We children slept on pallets on the floor. The way slaves
married in slavery time they jumped over the broom and when they
separated they jumped backward over the broom. Times were better in
slavery time to my notion than they are now because they did not go
hungry, neither necked. They ate common and wore one kind of clothes."
A duck, a bullfrog and a skunk went to a circus, the duck and the
bullfrog got in, why didn't the skunk get in?
(Answer). The duck had a bill, the bullfrog had a greenback but the
skunk had nothing but a scent.
If your father's sister is not your aunt what kin is she to you? (your
mother).
What is the difference between a four quart measure and a side saddle?
(Answer). They both hold a gallon. (a gal on)
--Cora Armstrong, colored.
Interviewer: Miss Irene Robertson
Person interviewed: Lillie Baccus, Madison, Arkansas
Age: 73
"I'll tell you what I heard. I was too little to remember the Civil War.
Mama's owner was ---- Dillard. She called him 'Master' Dillard. Papa's
owner was ---- Smith. He called him 'Master' Smith. Mama was named Ann
and papa Arthur Smith. I was born at West Point, Mississippi. I heard ma
say she was sold. She said Pattick sold her. She had to leave her two
children Cherry and Ann. Mama was a field hand. So was grandma yet she
worked in the house some she said. After freedom Cherry and Ann come to
mama. She was going to be sold agin but was freed before sold.
"Mama didn't live only till I was about three years old, so I don't know
enough to tell you about her. Grandma raised us. She was sold twice. She
said she run out of the house to pick up a star when the stars fell.
They showered down and disappeared.
"The Yankees camped close to where they lived, close to West Point,
Mississippi, but in the country close to an artesian well. The well was
on their place. The Yankees stole grandma and kept her at their tent.
They meant to take her on to wait on them and use but when they started
to move old master spicioned they had her hid down there. He watched out
and seen her when they was going to load her up. He went and got the
head man to make them give her up. She was so glad to come home. Glad to
see him cause she wanted to see him. They watched her so close she was
afraid they would shoot her leaving. She lived to be 101 years old. She
raised me. She used to tell how the overseer would whip her in the
field. They wasn't good to her in that way.
"I have three living children and eleven dead. I married twice. My first
husband is living. My second husband is dead. I married in day time in
the church the last time. All else ever took place in my life was hard
work. I worked in the field till I was too old to hit a tap. I live wid
my children. I get $8 and commodities.
"I come to Arkansas because they said money was easy to get--growed on
bushes. I had four little children to make a living for and they said it
was easier.
"I think people is better than they was long time ago. Times is harder.
People have to buy everything they have as high as they is, makes money
scarce nearly bout a place as hen's teeth. Hens ain't got no teeth. We
don't have much money I tell you. The Welfare gives me $8."
Interviewer: Samuel S. Taylor
Person interviewed: Joseph Samuel Badgett
1221 Wright Avenue, Little Rock, Arkansas
Age: 72
[HW: Mother was a Fighter]
"My mother had Indian in her. She would fight. She was the pet of the
people. When she was out, the pateroles would whip her because she
didn't have a pass. She has showed me scars that were on her even till
the day that she died. She was whipped because she was out without a
pass. She could have had a pass any time for the asking, but she was too
proud to ask. She never wanted to do things by permission.
Birth
"I was born in 1864. I was born right here in Dallas County. Some of the
most prominent people in this state came from there. I was born on
Thursday, in the morning at three o'clock, May the twelfth. My mother
has told me that so often, I have it memorized.
Persistence of Slave Customs
"While I was a slave and was born close to the end of the Civil War, I
remember seeing many of the soldiers down here. I remember much of the
treatment given to the slaves. I used to say 'master' myself in my day.
We had to do that till after '69 or '70. I remember the time when I
couldn't go nowhere without asking the 'white folks.' I wasn't a slave
then but I couldn't go off without asking the white people. I didn't
know no better.
"I have known the time in the southern part of this state when if you
wanted to give an entertainment you would have to ask the white folks.
Didn't know no better. For years and years, most of the niggers just
stayed with the white folks. Didn't want to leave them. Just took what
they give 'em and didn't ask for nothing different.
"If I had known forty years ago what I know now!
First Negro Doctor in Tulip, Arkansas
"The first Negro doctor we ever seen come from Little Rock down to
Tulip, Arkansas. We were all excited. There were plenty of people who
didn't have a doctor living with twenty miles of them. When I was
fourteen years old, I was secretary of a conference.
Schooling
"What little I know, an old white woman taught me. I started to school
under this old woman because there weren't any colored teachers. There
wasn't any school at Tulip where I lived. This old lady just wanted to
help. I went to her about seven years. She taught us a little every
year--'specially in the summer time. She was high class--a high class
Christian woman--belonged to the Presbyterian church. Her name was Mrs.
Gentry Wiley.
"I went to school to Scipio Jones once. Then they opened a public school
at Tulip and J.C. Smith taught there two years in the summer time. Then
Lula Baily taught there one year. She didn't know no more than I did.
Then Scipio came. He was there for a while. I don't remember just how
long.
"After that I went to Pine Bluff. The County Judge at that time had the
right to name a student from each district. I was appointed and went up
there in '82 and '83 from my district. It took about eight years to
finish Branch Normal at that time. I stayed there two years. I roomed
with old man John Young.
"You couldn't go to school without paying unless you were sent by the
Board. We lived in the country and I would go home in the winter and
study in the summer. Professor J.C. Corbin was principal of the Pine
Bluff Branch Normal at that time. Dr. A.H. Hill, Professor Booker, and
quite a number of the people we consider distinguished were in school
then. They finished, but I didn't. I had to go to my mother because she
was ill. I don't claim to have no schooling at all.
"Forty Acres and a Mule"
"My mother received forty acres of land when freedom came. Her master
gave it to her. She was given forty acres of land and a colt. There is
no more to tell about that. It was just that way--a gift of forty acres
of land and a colt from her former master.
"My mother died. There is a woman living now that lost it (the home).
Mother let Malinda live on it. Mother lived with the white folks
meanwhile. She didn't need the property for herself. She kept it for us.
She built a nice log house on it. Fifteen acres of it was under
cultivation when it was given to her. My sister lived on it for a long
time. She mortgaged it in some way I don't know how. I remember when the
white people ran me down there some years back to get me to sign a title
to it. I didn't have to sign the paper because the property had been
deeded to Susan Badgett and HEIRS; lawyers advised me not to sign it.
But I signed it for the sake of my sister.
Father and Master
"My mother's master was named Badgett--Captain John Badgett. He was a
Methodist preacher. Some of the Badgetts still own property on Main
Street. My mother's master's father was my daddy.
Marriage
"I was married July 12, 1889. Next year I will have been married fifty
years. My wife's name was Elizabeth Owens. She was born in Batesville,
Mississippi. I met her at Brinkley when she was visiting her aunt. We
married in Brinkley. Very few people in this city have lived together
longer than we have. July 12, 1938, will make forty-nine years. By July
1939, we will have reached our fiftieth anniversary.
Patrollers, Jayhawkers, Ku Klux, and Ku Klux Klan
"Pateroles, Jayhawkers, and the Ku Klux came before the war. The Ku Klux
in slavery times were men who would catch Negroes out and keep them if
they did not collect from their masters. The Pateroles would catch
Negroes out and return them if they did not have a pass. They whipped
them sometimes if they did not have a pass. The Jayhawkers were highway
men or robbers who stole slaves among other things. At least, that is
the way the people regarded them. The Jayhawkers stole and pillaged,
while the Ku Klux stole those Negroes they caught out. The word 'Klan'
was never included in their name.
"The Ku Klux Klan was an organization which arose after the Civil War.
It was composed of men who believed in white supremacy and who regulated
the morals of the neighborhood. They were not only after Jews and
Negroes, but they were sworn to protect the better class of people. They
took the law in their own hands.
Slave Work
"I'm not so certain about the amount of work required of slaves. My
mother says she picked four hundred pounds of cotton many a day. The
slaves were tasked and given certain amounts to accomplish. I don't know
the exact amount nor just how it was determined.
Opinions
"It is too bad that the young Negroes don't know what the old Negroes
think and what they have done. The young folks could be helped if they
would take advice."
Interviewer's Comment
Badgett's distinctions between jayhawkers, Ku Klux, patrollers, and Ku
Klux Klan are most interesting.
I have been slow to catch it. All my life, I have heard persons with
ex-slave background refer to the activities of the Ku Klux among slaves
prior to 1865. I always thought that they had the Klux Klan and the
patrollers confused.
Badgett's definite and clear-cut memories, however, lead me to believe
that many of the Negroes who were slaves used the word Ku Klux to denote
a type of persons who stole slaves. It was evidently in use before it
was applied to the Ku Klux Klan.
The words "Ku Klux" and "Ku Klux Klan" are used indiscriminately in
current conversation and literature. It is also true that many persons
in the present do, and in the past did, refer to the Ku Klux Klan simply
as "Ku Klux."
It is a matter of record that the organization did not at first bear the
name "Ku Klux Klan" throughout the South. The name "Ku Klux" seems to
have grown in application as the organization changed from a moral
association of the best citizens of the South and gradually came under
the control of lawless persons with lawless methods--whipping and
murdering. It is antecedently reasonable that the change in names
accompanying a change in policy would be due to a fitness in the prior
use of the name.
The recent use of the name seems mostly imitation and propaganda.
Histories, encyclopedias, and dictionaries, in general, do not record a
meaning of the term Ku Klux as prior to the Reconstruction period.
Circumstances of Interview
STATE--Arkansas
NAME OF WORKER--Samuel S. Taylor
ADDRESS--Little Rock, Arkansas
DATE--December, 1938
SUBJECT--Ex-slave
1. Name and address of informant--Jeff Bailey, 713 W. Ninth Street,
Little Rock.
2. Date and time of interview--
3. Place of interview--713 W. Ninth Street, Little Rock.
4. Name and address of person, if any, who put you in touch with
informant--
5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying you--
6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.
Personal History of Informant
STATE--Arkansas
NAME OF WORKER--Samuel S. Taylor
ADDRESS--Little Rock, Arkansas
DATE--December, 1938
SUBJECT--Ex-slave
NAME AND ADDRESS OF INFORMANT--Jeff Bailey, 713 W. Ninth Street, Little
Rock.
1. Ancestry--father, Jeff Wells; mother, Tilda Bailey.
2. Place and date of birth--born in 1861 in Monticello, Arkansas.
3. Family--
4. Places lived in, with dates--reared in Monticello. Lived in Pine
Bluff thirty-two years, then moved to Little Rock and has lived here
thirty-two years.
5. Education, with dates--
6. Occupations and accomplishments, with dates--Hostler
7. Special skills and interests--
8. Community and religious activities--
9. Description of informant--
10. Other points gained in interview--
Text of Interview (Unedited)
STATE--Arkansas
NAME OF WORKER--Samuel S. Taylor
ADDRESS--Little Rock, Arkansas
DATE--December, 1938
SUBJECT-Ex-slave
NAME AND ADDRESS OF INFORMANT--Jeff Bailey, 713 W. Ninth Street, Little
Rock.
[HW: A Hostler's Story]
"I was born in Monticello. I was raised there. Then I came up to Pine
Bluff and stayed there thirty-two years. Then I came up here and been
here thirty-two years. That is the reason the white folks so good to me
now. I been here so long, I been a hostler all my life. I am the best
hostler in this State. I go down to the post office they give me money.
These white folks here is good to me.
"What you writing down? Yes, that's what I said. These white folks like
me and they good to me. They give me anything I want. You want a drink?
That's the best bonded whiskey money can buy. They gives it to me. Well,
if you don't want it now, come in when you do.
"I lost my wife right there in that corner. I was married just once.
Lived with her forty-three years. She died here five months ago. Josie
Bailey! The white folks thought the world and all of her. That is
another reason they give me so much. She was one of the best women I
ever seen.
"I gits ten dollars a month. The check comes right up to the house. I
used to work with all them money men. Used to handle all them horses at
the post office. They ought to give me sixty-five dollars but they
don't. But I gits along. God is likely to lemme live ten years longer. I
worked at the post office twenty-two years and don't git but ten dollars
a month. They ought to gimme more.
"My father's name was Jeff Wells. My mother's name was Tilda Bailey. She
was married twice. I took her master's name. Jeff Wells was my father's
name. Governor Bailey ought to give me somethin'. I got the same name he
has. I know him.
"My father's master was Stanley--Jeff Stanley. That was in slavery time.
That was my slave time people. I was just a little bit of a boy. I am
glad you are gittin' that to help the colored people out. Are they goin'
to give the old slaves a pension? What they want to ask all these
questions for then? Well, I guess there's somethin' else besides money
that's worth while.
"My father's master was a good man. He was good to him. Yes Baby! Jeff
Wells, that my father's name. I was a little baby settin' in the basket
'round in the yard and they would put the cotton all 'round me. They
carried me out where they worked and put me in the basket. I couldn't
pick no cotton because I was too young. When they got through they would
put me in that big old wagon and carry me home. There wasn't no trucks
then. Jeff Wells (that was my father), when they got through pickin' the
cotton, he would say, 'Put them children in the wagon; pick 'em up and
put 'em in the wagon.' I was a little bitty old boy. I couldn't pick no
cotton then. But I used to pick it after the surrender.
"I remember what they said when they freed my father. They said, 'You're
free. You children are free. Go on back there and work and let your
children work. Don't work them children too long. You'll git pay for
your work.' That was in the Monticello courthouse yard. They said,
'You're free! Free!'
"My mistress said to me when I got back home, 'You're free. Go on out in
the orchard and git yoself some peaches.' They had a yard full of
peaches. Baby did I git me some peaches. I pulled a bushel of 'em.
Ku Klux Klan
"The Ku Klux run my father out of the fields once. And the white people
went and got them 'bout it. They said, 'Times is hard, and we can't have
these people losin' time out of the fields. You let these people work.'
A week after that, they didn't do no mo. The Ku Klux didn't. Somebody
laid them out. I used to go out to the fields and they would ask me,
'Jeff Bailey, what you do in' out here?' I was a little boy and you jus'
ought to seen me gittin' 'way frum there. Whooo-eeee!
"I used to pick cotton back yonder in Monticello. I can't pick no cotton
now. Naw Lawd! I'm too old. I can't do that kind of work now. I need
help. Carl Bailey knows me. He'll help me. I'm a hostler. I handle
horses. I used to pick cotton forty years ago. My mother washed clothes
right after the War to git us children some thin' to eat. Sometimes
somebody would give us somethin' to help us out.
"Tilda Bailey, that was my mother. She and my father belonged to
different masters. Bailey was her master's name. She always called
herself Bailey and I call myself Bailey. If I die, I'll be Bailey. My
insurance is in the name of Bailey. My father and mother had about eight
children. They raised all their children in Monticello. You ever been to
Monticello? I had a good time in Monticello. I was a baby when peace was
declared. Just toddling 'round.
"My father drank too much. I used to tell him about it. I used to say to
him, 'I wouldn't drink so much whiskey.' But he drank it right on. He
drank hisself to death.
"I believe Roosevelt's goin' to be President again. I believe he's goin'
to run for a third term. He's goin' to be dictator. He's goin' to be
king. He's goin' to be a good dictator. We don't want no more Republic.
The people are too hard on the poor people. President Roosevelt lets
everybody git somethin'. I hope he'll git it. I hope he'll be dictator.
I hope he'll be king. Yuh git hold uh some money with him.
"You couldn't ever have a chance if Cook got to be governor. I believe
Carl Bailey's goin' to be a good governor. I believe he'll do better.
They put Miz Carraway back; I believe she'll do good too."
Extra Comment
STATE--Arkansas
NAME OF WORKER--Samuel S. Taylor
ADDRESS--Little Rock, Arkansas
DATE--December, 1938
SUBJECT--Ex-slave
NAME AND ADDRESS OF INFORMANT--Jeff Bailey, 713 W. Ninth Street, Little
Rock.
Jeff Bailey talked like a man of ninety instead of a man of seventy-six
or seven. It was hard to get him to stick to any kind of a story. He had
two or three things on his mind and he repeated those things over and
over again--Governor Bailey, Hostler, Post Office. He had to be pried
loose from them. And he always returned the next sentence.
Interviewer: Mary D. Hudgins.
Person Interviewed: James Baker Aged: 81
Home: With daughter who owns home at 941 Wade St.
The outskirts of eastern Hot Springs resemble a vast
checkerboard--patterned in Black and White. Within two blocks of a house
made of log-faced siding--painted a spotless white and provided with
blue shutters will be a shack which appears to have been made from the
discard of a dozen generations of houses.
Some of the yards are thick with rusting cans, old tires and
miscelaneous rubbish. Some of them are so gutted by gully wash that any
attempt at beautification would be worse than useless. Some are
swept--farm fashion--free from surface dust and twigs. Some
attempt--others achieve grass and flowers. Vegetable gardens are far
less frequent then they should be, considering space left bare.
The interviewer frankly lost her way several times. One improper
direction took her fully half a mile beyond her destination. From a
hilltop she could look down on less elevated hills and into narrow
valleys. The impression was that of a cheaply painted back-drop designed
for a "stock" presentation of "Mrs. Wiggs of the Cabbage Patch."
Moving along streets, alleys and paths backward "toward town" the
interviewer reached another hill. Almost a quarter of a mile away she
spied an old colored man sunning himself on the front porch of a well
kept cottage. Somthing about his white hair and erectly-slumped bearing
screamed "Ex-slave" even at that distance. A negro youth was passing.
"I beg your pardon, can you tell me where to find Wade Street and James
Baker?" "Ya--ya--ya--s ma'am. Dat--dat--dat's de house over
da--da--da--da--r. He--he--he lives at his daughter's" "Could that be he
on the porch?" "Ya--ya--yas ma'am. Dat--dat--dat's right."
"Yes, ma'am I'm James Baker. Yes ma'am I remembers about the war. You
want to talk to me about it. Let me get you a chair. You'd rather sit
right there on the step? All right ma'am.
I was born in Hot Spring county, below Melvern it was. I was borned on
the farm of a man named Hammonds. But I was pretty little when he sold
me to some folks named Fenton. Wasn't with them so very long. You know
how it goes--back in them days. When a girl or a boy would marry, why
they'd givem them as many black folks as they could spare. I was give to
one of the daughters when she married. She was Mrs. Samuel Gentry.
I wasn't so very big before the war. So I didn't have to work in the
fields. Just sort of played around. Can't remember very much about what
happened then. We never did see no fighting about. They was men what
passed through. They was soldiers. They come backwards and forewards. I
was about as big as that boy you see there"--pointing to a lad about 8
years old--"some of them they was dressed in blue--sort of blue. We was
told that they was Federals. Then some of them was in grey--them was the
Southerners.
No, we wasn't scared of them--either of them. They didn't never bother
none of us. Didn't have anything to be scared of not at all. It wasn't
really Malvern we was at--that was sort of before Malvern come to be.
Malvern didn't grow up until after the railroad come through. The town
was across the river, sort of this side. It was called Rockport.
Ma'am--you know about Rockport"--a delighted chuckle. "Yes, ma'am, don't
many folks now-a-days know about Rockport. Yes ma'am the river is pretty
shoaly right there. Pretty shoaly. Yes ma'am there was lots of doings
around Rockport. Yes ma'am. Dat's right. Before Garland county was made,
Rockport was the capitol O--I mean de county seat of Hot Spring County.
Hot Springs was in that county at that time. There was big doings in
town when they held court. Real big doings.
No, ma'am I didn't do nothing much when the war was over. No, I didn't
go to be with my daddy. I moved over to live with a man I called Uncle
Billy--Uncle Billy Bryant he was. He had all his family with him. I
stayed with him and did what he told me to--'til I grew up. He was
always good to me--treated me like his own children.
Uncle Billy lived at Rockport. I liked living with him. I remember the
court house burned down--or blowed down--seems like to me it burned
down. Uncle Billy got the job of cleaning bricks. I helped him. That was
when they moved over to Malvern--the court house I mean. No--no they
didn't. Not then, that was later--they didn't build the railroad until
later. They built it back--sort of simple like--built it down by Judge
Kieth's.