Mr. LANE. I would like to add one more point, if I may. It is a matter
which I discussed with you on the telephone 2 days ago.
Mr. RANKIN. Is that in regard to the tape recording?
Mr. LANE. No; it is not.
Mr. RANKIN. Can we confine ourselves to that for a bit, until we
complete that. Can you tell us who else was present at the time of this
tape recording of Helen Markham that you describe?
Mr. LANE. I would like to make this quite clear to you, Mr. Rankin.
I am not going to discuss any working papers in my possession. Those
papers came into my possession as a result of an attorney-client
relationship. The Supreme Court has written decisions regarding the
sanctity of those documents. I think it is improper of you to ask
questions which delve into relationship of that nature. And I think you
know that the questions you are asking are improper.
Mr. RANKIN. And if other people were present at the time of any such
matters and disclosures, does that make any difference under the law,
do you think?
Mr. LANE. Present where?
Mr. RANKIN. At the time of the tape recording and the interview. That
is what I am asking you.
Mr. LANE. No one else was present.
Mr. RANKIN. And who did the tape recording?
Mr. LANE. Again you are delving into an area which is an improper one
for you to delve into.
Representative FORD. Did you know about the tape recording being made?
Mr. LANE. I beg your pardon?
Representative FORD. Did you know about the tape recording being made?
Mr. LANE. I decline to answer that question.
Am I a defendant before this Commission, or is the Commission trying to
find out who assassinated the President?
Representative FORD. We are trying to find out information about a
witness before this Commission----
Mr. LANE. Well, then, call the witness before the Commission and ask
the witness questions. And if the Commission--if the witness has
testified contrary to what I say the witness has said, then I would
suggest you do what I invited the Commission to do when this matter
arose. Submit my testimony and Mrs. Markham's testimony to the U.S.
attorney's office, and bring an action against both of us for perjury.
And then at that trial I will present documents in my possession, and
we will see who is convicted.
Representative FORD. Do you believe Mrs. Markham is an important
witness in this overall matter?
Mr. LANE. I would think so.
Representative FORD. I am sure you know what she has told you.
Mr. LANE. I know what she has told me, that is correct.
Representative FORD. If there is any difference between what she told
you and told this Commission, is that important?
Mr. LANE. Of course, it is important. And if there was someone
representing the interests of Oswald before this Commission, there
could be cross-examination, you sitting as judges could then base your
decision upon the cross-examination. But you have decided instead
to sit as judges and jurors and defense attorneys and prosecuting
attorneys, and you are faced with a dilemma. I cannot solve that
dilemma for you.
Representative FORD. In order for us to evaluate the testimony she
has given us and what you allege she has given you, we must see the
information which you have at your disposal.
Mr. LANE. I have told you precisely under oath what Mrs. Markham has
said to me.
Mr. RANKIN. Are you unwilling to verify that with the tape recording
that you claim to have?
Mr. LANE. I am unable to verify that because of an existing
attorney-client relationship, and you know that it would be improper
and unethical for me to give the answers to the questions which you
are asking. And that is why I am amazed that you persist in asking
questions which you know are improper and which would be unethical for
me to answer.
Mr. RANKIN. And where was this tape recording made?
Mr. LANE. You have my answer to questions about that already, Mr.
Rankin.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you, yourself, have any conversation with Helen Markham
at anytime?
Mr. LANE. Yes; I testified to that on March 4, and again today.
Representative FORD. Is this tape recording of that conversation?
Mr. LANE. Precisely.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us where the tape recording was made?
Mr. LANE. I can tell you, but I will not tell you.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you have any other reasons for not disclosing this
information to the Commission except your statement about the attorney
and client relationship that you describe?
Mr. LANE. And the sanctity of working documents of an attorney. I have
no other reason whatsoever.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Lane, the Commission has asked you a number of times to
disclose to it the name of the informant that you said told you about
having seen certain persons in the Carousel Club. Are you ready to
disclose the name of that informant now?
Mr. LANE. I am ready, but as I told you when I gave you that
information at the outset, I gave my word of honor to that person
that I would not disclose his name unless he gave me permission to. I
have gone to Dallas on two separate occasions to try to secure that
permission. I have not been able to secure that permission. Nothing
would make me happier than giving you the name of that person; but I
have given my word of honor and, therefore, I am unable to give you
that name.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you claim any attorney and client relationship with
regard to the name of that informant?
Mr. LANE. I think there clearly exists an attorney-client relationship,
but that is not the motivating factor in my telling you that I will not
disclose the name.
Mr. RANKIN. Is that the basis for your refusal to disclose the name?
Mr. LANE. Obviously if I say yes, you cannot pursue this, but I must
tell you honestly that is not the reason.
Mr. RANKIN. Then I ask you to disclose the name of the informant.
Mr. LANE. I cannot. I have given my word to that person that I would
not disclose his name.
Mr. RANKIN. You know that is no legal justification, do you not?
Mr. LANE. I know that is true. There is no legal justification. I know
that I am not here under subpena. I know that you wrote to me while I
was in Europe, although you have the power of subpena--you do not have
the power to subpena me while I was in Europe. I know the Commission
will complete its work very likely within the next 2 weeks. I could
have easily remained in Europe until the Commission had completed its
work.
I knew you were calling me here today in reference to that specific
matter because you said so in your letter to me. So I have come here
voluntarily to cooperate with the Commission to the very best of my
ability, and not to rely upon any legal superstructure to protect my
answers.
I told this Commission at the outset that I had given my word to this
person, and I would not reveal his name. The Commission led me to
believe at that time that it would honor that understanding, and the
record, I think, so reveals that. If the Commission is prepared----
Mr. RANKIN. You base that upon the record at that time? You base your
claim that the Commission indicated that it would honor any such
understanding on the record that was made on March 4, do you?
Mr. LANE. Yes; I think there is language there which indicates this. I
was not pressed at that time. We discussed the matter at that time. If
the Commission is at this point about to reverse its position, despite
an indication that it would honor that understanding, I am myself not
ready to break my honor, my commitment to that individual. I have not
done that ever in the past, and I will not do that now.
Mr. RANKIN. The Commission has a number of times asked you by
correspondence to disclose the name of that informant, and it now
asks you in this proceeding, while you are under oath, to make that
disclosure.
Mr. LANE. I will not do so, Mr. Rankin.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you realize that the information you gave in closed
session could have an unfavorable effect upon your country's interests
in connection with this assassination and your failure to disclose the
name of your informant would do further injury?
Mr. LANE. Mr. Rankin. I am astonished to hear that statement from you.
There are 180 million Americans in this country. I am perhaps the
only one who is a private citizen who has taken off the last 6 months
to devote all of his efforts to securing whatever information can be
found, and to making that known to this Commission, and publicly to
the people of this country at great personal cost in terms of the
harassment that I have suffered, in terms of the terrible financial
losses that I have suffered. And to sit here today, after 6 months of
this work, which I have given all to this Commission, voluntarily,
and again have come here again today voluntarily to give you this
information, and to hear you say that I am not cooperating with the
Commission, and I am going to do harm to the country by not making
information available to you astonishes me.
You have hundreds of agents of the FBI running all over the Dallas
area--agents of the Secret Service, Dallas policemen. Are you telling
me that in one trip to Dallas where I spent something like 2 days, I
uncovered information which the whole police force of this Nation has
not yet in 6 months been able to secure? I cannot believe that is a
valid assessment of this situation. I cannot, Mr. Rankin.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lane, may I say to you that until you give us the
corroboration that you say you have, namely, that someone told you that
that was a fact, we have every reason to doubt the truthfulness of what
you have heretofore told us. And your refusal to answer at this time
lends further strength to that belief. If you can tell us, and if you
will tell us, who gave you that information, so that we may test their
veracity, then you have performed a service to this Commission. But
until you do, you have done nothing but handicap us.
Mr. LANE. I have handicapped you by working for 6 months and making
all of the information which I have had available to you? I understand
very fully your position, Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Lane, what did you come down to tell us or inform
the Commission about? You say you came here of your own volition in
order to help us, and to give us information. Now, what information
in light of the fact that I wrote you and asked you for two specific
things--whatever information you had in any recorded form concerning
your interview with Helen Markham, and secondly, the name of the
informant, neither of which you are willing to disclose or have said
anything to help the Commission on.
Mr. LANE. I came here at your request that I interrupt my trip in
Europe to come back and testify before you. And I have done that.
The CHAIRMAN. By denying--by refusing to answer either question.
Mr. LANE. I think that--well. I have given you the reasons why I cannot
answer the question. With reference to Mrs. Markham, I should tell you
this, that I am hopeful that in the very near future I will be able
to make that document available to you by securing permission from my
client. But she has informed me at the present time that she is herself
involved in securing some information relative to this whole matter,
which you are familiar with, Mr. Rankin, and that she wishes there to
be no discussion at all at this point about this matter.
Frankly, quite frankly, matters which have been given to this
Commission in utmost confidence have appeared in the daily newspapers,
and one cannot feel with great security that giving information to this
Commission, even at secret hearings, means that the information will
not be broadcast, and this is the problem which confronts us at the
present time.
The CHAIRMAN. You know, do you not, that you and other witnesses have
been free to discuss their testimony before the Commission with the
public, and you, yourself, have done that, and that is one of the
reasons that things that were said before the Commission have been
divulged. You, yourself, have discussed fully your testimony before the
press and the radio and the television.
Mr. LANE. Yes; I have.
The CHAIRMAN. Other witnesses have done the same thing. No witness is
under compulsion to keep his testimony secret. Naturally, some things
would come out.
Mr. LANE. Well, it seems to me that when the transcript of my--the
transcript of my testimony was sent to me, dealing with the portion in
executive session, every page had been marked "Top Secret." In fact,
it bore a legend across it saying that my testimony, which consisted
almost solely at the outset of my request that the hearings be open to
the public, was in fact related to the national defense of the United
States and it was a violation of the espionage laws for me to discuss
those matters publicly.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, Mr. Lane, you know that you came right down from
your testimony, and I think in this very room, or at least on this
floor of this same building, discussed your testimony with the press
and the radio and the television.
Mr. LANE. Oh, I most certainly did. My testimony was open to the
public. My testimony was unlike the rest of the testimony before the
Commission.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, now, that is your judgment. Every witness knows
that he is under no compulsion to keep his testimony secret. They have
not done it. And many of them have come down here after their testimony
upstairs and have appeared on radio and television and have discussed
matters with the press.
Mr. LANE. Yes; I know that that may very well be so, Mr. Chief Justice.
I was only making reference to matters such as the diary which has been
marked Top Secret, which has been published, and the press conferences
in which members of the Commission reported to the press the testimony
before them.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Lane, when I wrote you, do you recall that I offered to
have the Commission pay your expenses to come back from Europe in order
to testify before the Commission at this time?
Mr. LANE. Yes; you did.
Mr. RANKIN. Are you asking that you be paid those expenses?
Mr. LANE. I would expect that since you made that offer that is a
commitment you should keep. I would have remained in Europe; yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And you did not tell me in any correspondence that you were
going to take the position that you could not make this disclosure
because of an attorney-client relationship, and that you were not going
to give us any information about the informant at this time?