And he went into this CUSA organization. He was at that time a partner
in CUSA. It was set up as a business.
Representative BOGGS. What does CUSA mean?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Conservatism USA.
Representative BOGGS. What was Mr. Schmidt's rank?
Mr. WEISSMAN. He was specialist fourth class, SP-4, and he was in
charge of public relations for Armed Forces Recreation Centers.
Mr. JENNER. How old a man is he?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Larrie is 26 or 27.
Mr. JENNER. About the same age as yours?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And Mr. Burley?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Twenty-nine now, I believe.
Mr. JENNER. A little older--about 2 years older than you and Mr.
Schmidt.
Mr. WEISSMAN. In there. A year and a half, 2 years, yes.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. What was his rank?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Corporal. At the time that I met Bill he was a pfc. In
fact, Bill Burley didn't become really involved in this until, I would
say, 2 or 3 months before we left Germany. We left there about the
same time, we were discharged about the same time; and, anyway, I was
talking to the company clerk, Norman Baker, who was a partner in CUSA.
I didn't know this at the time; but he just said he wanted to introduce
me to somebody.
Mr. JENNER. What was the rank of the company clerk?
Mr. WEISSMAN. At that time--I think he was the only corporal company
clerk in the army. And he introduced me to Larrie several weeks later
after we had returned from the field.
They tried to pull a big snow job, saying public relations and so on
and so forth, just to sort of impress me, and they did. They worked
very well together; and, in any case, I became involved in it.
I don't recollect the step-by-step involvement--just that I jumped in
with both feet, because I liked the idea.
Mr. JENNER. This was Conservatism USA, and it consisted of an idea at
this particular time?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And associated with that idea were these people, Larrie
Schmidt, yourself, was Burley----
Mr. WEISSMAN. At that time, I don't think so.
Mr. JENNER. But he did become?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Later.
Mr. JENNER. And the company clerk--what was his name?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Norman Baker.
Mr. JENNER. And yourself--what was that--five? Were there any others?
Mr. WEISSMAN. There were others, but it was the sort of thing where
they were involved but not involved. They were just sort of going along
for the ride, because it was interesting, and you might say a little
diverse from the humdrum army life.
Mr. JENNER. Was CUSA ever organized formally in the sense of corporate
organization or drafting of partnership papers and registration under
the Assumed Name Act in Texas?
Mr. WEISSMAN. In Texas; no.
Mr. JENNER. I take it it was organized?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; it was.
Mr. JENNER. As a corporation or partnership?
Mr. WEISSMAN. As a partnership.
Mr. JENNER. In what state?
Mr. WEISSMAN. In Munich, Germany.
Mr. JENNER. I see. And that was a sort of declaration among you?
Mr. WEISSMAN. It was a written declaration; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Who drafted that?
Mr. WEISSMAN. We did--that is, we called ourselves--the hangers-on were
identified as the outer circle, and the partners were the inner circle.
This was just for ease of identification. This, I think, would be the
easiest way to really express it.
And the partners, the five partners, were the inner circle, the leaders
of this organization; and----
The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, may I interrupt for just a minute? I have an
appointment I must keep at the court.
Congressman Ford, will you preside, please?
Representative FORD. Surely.
(At this point, Chief Justice Warren withdrew from the hearing room.)
Representative FORD. Will you proceed, please, Mr. Jenner.
Mr. JENNER. Thank you. In short compass, tell us the objectives of CUSA.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, the objectives of CUSA were substantially to set
up a political business organization. We used a rough comparison with
Ford and the Ford Foundation as an example. The Ford Foundation would
be CUSA, Conservatism USA, and the Ford would be AMBUS, or American
business.
Mr. JENNER. What was AMBUS?
Mr. WEISSMAN. American business. This was the business half of the
political organization.
Mr. JENNER. This was to be a combination of business and politics?