The President's Commission reconvened at 2 p.m.
(Chairman Warren presiding and Mr. Dulles present.)
The CHAIRMAN. All right, gentlemen.
Do you have a statement?
Mr. RANKIN. Sergeant Dean asked if he couldn't appear before the
Commission and testify. We took his deposition in Dallas, and he asked,
when he signed his deposition, whether he couldn't appear personally,
so we are permitting him to do this.
The CHAIRMAN. We are very happy to have you, Sergeant. Will you raise
your right hand and be sworn, please?
You solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before the
Commission shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. DEAN. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. Be seated, please.
Mr. Rankin, you may examine the witness.
Mr. RANKIN. Sergeant, will you give us your name, your address, please?
Mr. DEAN. Patrick T. Dean. I live at 2822 Nicholson Drive in Dallas.
Mr. RANKIN. Are you connected with the police department in Dallas?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. What is your position?
Mr. DEAN. I am a sergeant on patrol.
Mr. RANKIN. How long have you been an official in the police department?
Mr. DEAN. Eleven and a half years.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us briefly any training or experience you
have had?
Mr. DEAN. Well, I worked as a patrolman for 5 years. Then I was
promoted to sergeant and remained in the patrol division. I have since
been in the patrol division the rest of the time.
Mr. RANKIN. You have given us your deposition, have you not, Sergeant?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. And is that correct and true as far as anything you know?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Is there any part of it that you want to change or correct
or modify?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; I feel the main reason I wanted to appear before
the Commission was about the 20 or 25 minutes that was off the record
that I feel I would like the Commission to have on the record, and this
is between Mr. Griffin and I. He was the original one who started my
deposition.
Mr. RANKIN. Well, do you want to tell that at this time?
First, is there anything about what you said on the record that was not
correct?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. And the truth?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Well, Mr. Griffin had questioned me about 2 hours, or maybe a little
longer. There was no problems at all, no difficulties. And after that
length of time, a little over 2 hours, Mr. Griffin desired to get off
the record, and he advised the court reporter that he would be off the
record and he could go smoke a cigarette or get a Coke, and he would
let him know when he wanted him to get back on the record.
Well, after the court reporter left, Mr. Griffin started talking to me
in a manner of gaining my confidence in that he would help me and that
he felt I would probably need some help in the future.
My not knowing what he was building up to, I asked Mr. Griffin to go
ahead and ask me what he was going to ask me. He continued to advise
me that he wanted me to listen to what he had to say before he asked
me whatever question he was going to ask me. I finally told him that
whatever he wanted to ask me he could just ask me, and if I knew I
would tell him the truth or if I didn't know, I would tell him I didn't
know.
Mr. Griffin took my reports, one dated February 18, the subject of it
was an interview with Jack Ruby, and one dated November 26, which was
my assignment in the basement.
He said there were things in these statements which were not true and,
in fact, he said both these statements, he said there were particular
things in there that were not true, and I asked him what portions did
he consider not true, and then very dogmatically he said that, "Jack
Ruby didn't tell you that he entered the basement via the Main Street
ramp."
And, of course, I was shocked at this. This is what I testified to, in
fact, I was cross-examined on this, and he, Mr. Griffin, further said,
"Jack Ruby did not tell you that he had thought or planned to kill
Oswald two nights prior."
And he said, "Your testimony was false, and these reports to your chief
of police are false."
So this, of course, all this was off the record. I told Mr. Griffin
then this shocked me, and I told him it shocked me; that I couldn't
imagine what he was getting at or why he would accuse me of this, and I
asked him, and Mr. Griffin replied he didn't or he wasn't at liberty to
discuss that particular part of it with me, and that he wasn't trying
to cross-examine me here, but that under cross-examination he could
prove that my testimony was false, and that is when I told Mr. Griffin
that these are the facts and I can't change them. This is what I know
about it.
I quoted Ruby just about verbatim, and since he didn't believe me, and
I was saying they were true, we might as well terminate the interview.
Mr. Griffin then got back on the record, or before he did get back
on the record, he said, "Well now, Sergeant Dean, I respect you as a
witness, I respect you in your profession, but I have offered my help
and assistance, and I again will offer you my assistance, and that I
don't feel you will be subjecting yourself to loss of your job," or
some words to that effect, "If you will go ahead and tell me the truth
about it."
I again told Mr. Griffin that these were the facts and I couldn't
change them, so with that we got back on the record.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask Mr. Griffin to ever put this part that was off
the record on the record?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. RANKIN. Why didn't you at that time?
Mr. DEAN. Well, now the discussion was, I said, "Mr. Griffin, I have
waived my rights for an attorney, of which I don't feel like I need
one." I still don't feel like I need one.
The CHAIRMAN. And you do not need one either Sergeant.
Mr. DEAN. True.
The CHAIRMAN. You will get along all right.
Mr. DEAN. Thank you.
I said, "I have come over here with the idea of giving you all the
information that I have." In fact, I had some additional information
that I had gotten the night before, and it was a call that I had
received from some man in Victoria, Canada, who said he had a reel of
movie film that he had taken of the assassination.
I got this man's name, where he called from, had the police department
in Victoria check to crisscross the number, and I gave him the
name--well, all the information as to where the call had originated
from, his name, also this man's attorney, he had given me his name, and
I told him that the reason the man had called, had called especially
for me at the police department, was that he had a reel of movie film
that he had taken the day of the assassination and that these--or the
camera was on the President at the time of the assassination, and he
described to me the position as to where he was, which was across and
in trajectory of the line of fire, and that he felt that in addition to
the assassination that he had gotten the School Book Depository.
I told Mr. Griffin at the time that I had told this man--I can't
remember his name, the FBI has gotten it, and at the time I gave it
to Mr. Griffin, I told this man on the telephone from Victoria that
night that he should send these things, this film, that he said wasn't
developed, to the Warren Commission.
He said, that is when he told me that he had contacted his attorney in
Victoria and that his attorney's name was Batter, and he spelled it
for me, B-a-t-t-e-r, and his attorney had advised him not to send this
information to the Warren Commission but to contact someone in Dallas
and send it to them.
This man told me that he had read something about my testimony and
that he asked me would it be all right for him to send it to me, and
I told him, "Yes," and I said I was supposed to go back to the Warren
Commission and he could send it to me, and I would make it available
for them.
This was just additional information that I told Mr. Griffin that I
was--this is an example--I was there to help them in any way I could.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, the differences in your testimony that Mr. Griffin was
discussing with you off the record, you have gone into that in detail
on the record, haven't you, in your deposition?
Mr. DEAN. Yes; I believe I have, about how Ruby entered the basement or
how he told me how he entered the basement. Also that he had thought
two nights prior when he saw Lee Oswald on a showup stand with a
sarcastic sneer on his face is when he decided if he got the chance he
would kill him. This was the thing that I testified in court about. I
was cross-examined in court.
Mr. RANKIN. And you have explained all that in your deposition, haven't
you?
Mr. DEAN. I believe so; I am not certain.
Mr. RANKIN. And did he ask you about why you didn't have your--this
information about his planning to shoot Oswald the night before, or on
the Friday----