Mr. RANKIN. Now, going back just a moment, you spoke out about a map
earlier that you had been told they had as evidence, do you recall, of
the parade route. Did you look at the map at the time?
Mr. WADE. I don't think I ever saw the map.
Mr. RANKIN. You don't know what it contained in regard to the parade
route?
Mr. WADE. I was told by Fritz that it had the parade route and it had
an X where the assassination took place and it had an X out on Stemmons
Freeway and an X at Inwood Road and Lemon, is all I know, a circle or
some mark there.
Mr. RANKIN. But you have never seen the map?
Mr. WADE. So far as I know, I have never seen the map. I don't know
even where it was found, but I think it was found in his home,
probably. But that is my recollection. But I don't even know that. I
told Chief Curry this.
Then I walked out, and Tom Pettit of NBC said, "We are all confused on
the law, where we are really on this thing."
Mr. RANKIN. What did you say?
Mr. WADE. At that time I said, "Well, I will explain the procedure,
Texas procedure in a criminal case," and I had about a 10-minute
interview there as I was leaving the chief's office, dealing entirely
with the procedure, I mean your examining trial and grand jury and jury
trial. I mean as to what takes place. You see, they had all kinds of
statements and other countries represented and they were all curious to
ask legal questions, when bond would be set and when it would be done.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss the evidence at that time?
Mr. WADE. No, sir; I refused. You will find that I refused to answer
questions. They all asked questions on it, but I would tell them that
is evidence and that deals with evidence in the matter.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell them why you wouldn't answer those questions?
Mr. WADE. I told them we had to try the case, here, and we would have
to try the case and we wouldn't be able to get a jury if they knew all
the evidence in the case.
You will find that in those interviews most, I think. I haven't seen
them. As a matter of fact, didn't see them myself even. But I went home
that day, and----
Mr. DULLES. That day is Saturday?
Mr. WADE. Saturday; yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. About what time? Do you recall?
Mr. WADE. I guess I got home 2:30 probably. I must have eaten on the
way home or somewhere.
Mr. RANKIN. In the afternoon?
Mr. WADE. Yes, sir; and I know I was amazed as I walked through the
television room there and saw Chief Curry with that gun. You see,
at that time they had not identified the gun as his gun, but he was
telling about the FBI report on it.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you just describe what you saw there at that time?
Mr. WADE. Well, I know he was in a crowd, and it seems to me like
he had the gun, but on second thought I am not even sure whether he
had the gun, but he was tracing the history of how that the gun was
bought under the name, under an assumed name from a mail-order house
in Chicago and mailed there to Dallas, and that the serial number
and everything that had been identified, that the FBI had done that,
something else.
I believe they said they had a post office box here, a blind post
office box that the recipients of that had identified as Oswald as the
guy or something that received it.
In other words, he went directly over the evidence connecting him with
the gun.
Mr. RANKIN. You say there was a crowd there. Who was the crowd around
him?
Mr. WADE. Newsmen. You see, I was at home. I was watching it on
television.
Mr. RANKIN. I see. Did you do anything about that, then? Did you call
him and ask him to quit that?
Mr. WADE. No; I felt like nearly it was a hopeless case. I know now why
it happened. That was the first piece of evidence he got his hands on
before Fritz did.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you explain what you mean by that?
Mr. WADE. Well, this went to the FBI and came to him rather than to
Captain Fritz, and I feel in my own mind that this was something new,
that he really had been receiving none of the original evidence, that
it was coming through Fritz to him and so this went from him to Fritz,
you know, and I think that is the reason he did it.
So I stayed home that afternoon. I was trying to think, it seems like I
went back by the police station some time that night, late at night.
Mr. RANKIN. This way of giving evidence to the press and all of the
news media, is that standard practice in your area?
Mr. WADE. Yes; it is, unfortunately. I don't think it is good. We have
just, even since this happened we have had a similar incident with the
police giving all the evidence out or giving out an oral confession of
a defendant that is not admissible in court. You know, oral admissions
are not generally admissible in Texas. And they gave all the evidence
out in it.
Mr. RANKIN. Have you done anything about it, tried to stop it in any
way?
Mr. WADE. Well, in this actually, in the same story they quoted me as
saying, I mean the news quoted me as saying they shouldn't give the
information out, that is the evidence, we have got to try the case,
we will get a jury, it is improper to do this, or something to that
effect. So far as taking it up with--I have mentioned many times that
they shouldn't give out evidence, in talking to the police officers, I
mean in there in training things, but it is something I have no control
over whatever. It is a separate entity, the city of Dallas is, and I
do a little fussing with the police, but by the same token it is not
a situation where--I think it is one of your major problems that are
going to have to be looked into not only here but it is a sidelight, I
think, to your investigation to some extent, but I think you prejudice
us, the state, more than you do the defense by giving out our testimony.
You may think that giving out will help you to convict him. I think it
works the other way, your jurors that read, the good type of jurors,
get an opinion one way or another from what they read, and you end
up with poor jurors. If they haven't read or heard anything of the
case--well, not generally the same type of juror.
The only thing I make a practice of saying is that I reviewed the
evidence in this case in which the State will ask the death penalty,
which may be going too far, but I tell them we plan to ask the death
penalty or plan to ask life or plan to ask maximum jail sentence or
something of that kind.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say that at any time about the Oswald case?
Mr. WADE. Oh, yes, sir; I have said that about both Oswald and Ruby.
Mr. RANKIN. When did you say it about the Oswald case?
Mr. WADE. I guess it was Friday night probably. I was asked what
penalty we would ask for.
Mr. RANKIN. When the police made these releases about the evidence, did
they ever ask you whether they should make them?
Mr. WADE. No, sir; like I told you. I talked Saturday morning around
between 11 and 12, some time. I told him there was entirely too much
publicity on this thing, that with the pressure going to be on us to
try it and there may not be a place in the United States you can try
it with all the publicity you are getting. Chief Curry said he agreed
with me, but, like I said about 2 hours later, I saw him releasing this
testimony.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you consult any State officials about how you should
handle either the Oswald or the Ruby case?
Mr. WADE. I don't know. It seems like I talked to Waggoner Carr that
night, but I don't remember.
Didn't we talk some time about it?
I don't know whether it was consulting about how to try it or anything.
But I know I talked to Waggoner's office some time within 2 or 3 days,
but I don't know whether it was before the Ruby assault or not. But he
doesn't actually----
Mr. RANKIN. Does the Texas attorney general have any jurisdiction to
tell you how to try such cases?
Mr. WADE. No sir; I think Waggoner will agree with that. They don't
have any jurisdiction to try criminal cases other than antitrust, but
I assume we would ask for their assistance if we wanted it. We don't
generally, and I don't, the law doesn't contemplate that.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Carr didn't try to tell you in any way how to handle
either case?
Mr. WADE. Not that I know of.
Mr. CARR. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. DULLES. May we proceed.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Wade, will you give us the substance of what Mr. Carr
said to you and what you said to him at that time?
Mr. WADE. All I remember--I don't actually remember or know what night
it was I talked to him but I assume it was that night because he did
mention that the rumor was out that we were getting ready to file a
charge of Oswald being part of an international conspiracy, and I told
him that that was not going to be done.