The testimony of Jack Edwin Dougherty was taken at 10:50 a.m., on April
8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant
counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BALL. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give
before the Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I do.
Mr. BALL. Will you state your name and address for the record?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Jack Edwin Dougherty.
Mr. BALL. And your address?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. 1827 South Marsalis.
Mr. BALL. How old are you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Forty.
Mr. BALL. Where were you born?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Here in Dallas.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go to school?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Sunset High School.
Mr. BALL. You went through Sunset High School?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What year did you get out of high school? About?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Oh, 1937.
Mr. BALL. 1937?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What kind of work did you do after that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, of course, a year or so, you might say--just work
in grocery stores until I was 19 and volunteered for the Armed Services
in October--October 24, 1942.
Mr. BALL. How long were you in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. 2 years, 1 month, 17 days, to be exact.
Mr. BALL. And you were discharged from the Service, then, after the
War, was it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do during the service--during your period in the
service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, you might say just about a little bit of
everything, from guard duty to----
Mr. BALL. Did you have any active service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, no--I volunteered for active service, but they
said you couldn't very well volunteer--you have to be drafted, so they
said, they told me at the time.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever leave the United States during the War?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in
Indiana up there--Seymour, Ind.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go from there in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I stayed there until I got discharged.
Mr. BALL. You didn't ever go outside the country to Europe?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Oh, no.
Mr. BALL. Or to the South Seas?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. You stayed in this country all the time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you ever have any difficulty with your speech?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. You never had any?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever have any difficulty in the Army with any medical
treatment or anything of that sort?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. None at all?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after you got out of the Army?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, jobs were pretty scarce about the time I got out
of the service, so I just went from place to place and applied and put
my application in, so I started over here at the Texas School Book
Depository and put my application in there and I got it through the
Suburban Employment Agency, and I been working there ever since.
Mr. BALL. And that was when--in 1940, was it, you started to work at
the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. September 17, 1940.
Mr. BALL. 1940 what?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Let's see, I have been with them 11 years--that would
be----
Mr. BALL. That would be 1952, wouldn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes--that's 1952.
Mr. BALL. 1952?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes; that's right, to be exact.
Mr. BALL. What did you do between the time you got out of the service
and 1952?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I didn't do anything to be frank with you.
Mr. BALL. You didn't?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. You didn't work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Oh, no.
Mr. BALL. You stayed at home?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you live with your father and mother?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Have you ever been married?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No.
Mr. BALL. And you still live with your father and mother?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Now, what kind of work have you been doing at the Texas
School Book Depository in the last few years?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Oh--shipping clerk.
Mr. BALL. And what kind of work is that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, that's when they bring the orders from on the
second floor, and in other words, you fill them from the--they are
orders, I guess you would call them orders, to fill from there, and
outside of doing little odd jobs besides that--that's it.
Mr. BALL. Did you know a fellow named Lee Harvey Oswald that worked at
the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I'll be frank with you, Mr. Ball, I don't believe
nobody knew him too well. You might say he wouldn't have too much to
say to anybody. He just stayed all to hisself, and I'll be frank with
you, I just flat didn't know him.
Mr. BALL. Now, on November 22, 1963, that's the day the President was
shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What time did you go to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I got there--it was after 7 o'clock in the morning.
Mr. BALL. Do you usually get there in the morning at 7 o'clock?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Why do you get there at 7 instead of 8, when the rest of the
men get there?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, you might say, I have a little--extra chores to do.
Mr. BALL. You do that--you get there at 7 all the time, don't you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, I've been doing it for 11 years.
Mr. BALL. That's what Mr. Truly told me, that you get there real early.
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And you did get there about 7 that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Let's see, Mr. Dougherty, you said that you have some extra
chores--what are those extra chores?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I have to see to it that the water system is pumped up.
In other words, the air pressure is up to where--up to 40 pounds so
that if it isn't pumped up, the alarm goes off, and the ADT runs that
alarm system, and we immediately call Mr. Truly and of course they call
me.
Mr. BALL. What is the ADT?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. That's that--I don't know too much about it--it has
something to do with the alarm system they have got down there.
Mr. BALL. You mean the pressure, do you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Is that a fire-alarm system?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes--you could call it that.
Mr. BALL. Now, what else do you do there early in the morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, let's see, I have to check and see that there is
no leaks in the building, that the pipes are not leaking somewhere.
Mr. BALL. Anything else you do?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. No; I believe that just about covers it.
Mr. BALL. What time do you usually go to lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, usually about 12 o'clock or 12 noon.
Mr. BALL. Do you carry your lunch most of the time from home?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And where do you usually eat your lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, they have got what they call a domino room in
there and I usually eat it in there.
Mr. BALL. You usually eat your lunch in the domino room?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And how long do you take for lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, from 12 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. Forty-five minutes?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Do you always take a full hour?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes; I usually do.
Mr. BALL. Now, do you remember the day of November 22, 1963; you do,
don't you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The day that the President was shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what time you went to work that day?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes--let's see--it was 12:30.
Mr. BALL. What time did you go to work that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, that particular morning--let's see, we didn't go
back.
Mr. BALL. No; I mean, what time did you go to work the first thing in
the morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. It was 8 o'clock when we were actually started to work.
Mr. BALL. What time did you get to the building?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. At a quarter to 7.
Mr. BALL. At a quarter to 7?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You told the FBI officers that you got there about 7 o'clock.
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I mean, inside the building.
Mr. BALL. Inside the building?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes--when I got inside the building it was 7 o'clock.
Mr. BALL. You parked your car?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I don't have a car--I have to ride the bus.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Oswald come to work that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes--when he first come into the door.
Mr. BALL. When he came in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes; I saw him when he first come in the door--yes.
Mr. BALL. Did he have anything in his hands or arms?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, not that I could see of.
Mr. BALL. About what time of day was that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. That was 8 o'clock.
Mr. BALL. That was about 8 o'clock?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What door did he come in?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, he came in the back door.
Mr. BALL. Where were you then?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I was--sitting on top of the wrapping table.
Mr. BALL. Now, do you remember that you gave a statement to the Federal
Bureau of Investigation and to a man by the name of Ellington, or a Mr.
Anderton, the day after--the 23d of November?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes--I talked to so many of them--it is kind of hard to
remember.
Mr. BALL. And there is a statement that they took when they talked to
you and in it you said, "I recall vaguely, having seen Lee Oswald, when
he came to work at about 8 a.m. today."
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I did--that morning.
Mr. BALL. That seems to be dated the 22d day of November 1963.
Mr. DOUGHERTY. That's right.
Mr. BALL. The full statement is, "I am employed by the Texas School
Book Depository, 411 Elm Street, Dallas, as an order filler, and reside
at 1827 South Marsalis Street, Dallas, Tex."
Did you tell them that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Yes, sir.