Mr. BELIN. Elm and Record Streets?
Mr. GIVENS. Elm and Record Streets; yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. That would be one block to the east of the corner of Elm and
Houston?
Mr. GIVENS. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. All right, then, what did you do?
Mr. GIVENS. I stood around over there and went up on the corner.
Mr. BELIN. What corner?
Mr. GIVENS. Up on Main and Record. That is where I watched the
President pass right there.
Mr. BELIN. Who else was there with you that you knew?
Mr. GIVENS. James and Edward Shields.
Mr. BELIN. Is that the same person, James Edward?
Mr. GIVENS. Edward Shields and James.
Mr. BELIN. Two other people?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. You watched the motorcade together?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do after you watched the motorcade?
Mr. GIVENS. We turned and started back down to the parking lot.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. GIVENS. Then when we heard the shots, by the time we got along in
front, right across in front of the Record Building, then we heard the
shots.
Mr. BELIN. I want to backtrack a minute before we come to the shots.
When did you eat lunch?
Mr. GIVENS. When did I eat lunch? I ate lunch after. Let's see, no; I
ate lunch before I went up there, because I stood outside and ate my
sandwich standing out there.
Mr. BELIN. You ate your lunch outside?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. Standing in front of the building.
Mr. BELIN. In front of what building?
Mr. GIVENS. Texas School Book.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever eat any lunch inside the building?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; I eat inside the building all the time.
Mr. BELIN. On November 22, did you eat inside the building?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now you said you saw Lee Oswald on the sixth floor around
11:55?
Mr. GIVENS. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see Lee Oswald anywhere else in the building between
11:55 and the time you left the building?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. On November 22d?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him in the domino room at all around anywhere
between 11:30 and 12 or 12:30?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him reading the newspaper?
Mr. GIVENS. No; not that day. I did--he generally sit in there every
morning. He would come to work and sit in there and read the paper, the
next day paper, like if the day was Tuesday, he would read Monday's
paper in the morning when he would come to work, but he didn't that
morning because he didn't go in the domino room that morning. I didn't
see him in the domino room that morning.
Mr. BELIN. How do you know it was the previous day paper that he read?
Mr. GIVENS. Because he would be sitting there and I would look at him,
when he got through and got up to go to work, I would get it and look
at it.
Mr. BELIN. Would it be a News or Times Herald?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, they bring Dallas Morning News around in the morning.
Fellows bring it to work.
Mr. BELIN. You mean he would read someone else's newspaper that
somebody else brought to work?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever know him to buy his own newspaper?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; I never saw him buy one.
Mr. BELIN. Who generally brought the newspaper there?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, Harold Norman would generally bring one and James
Jarman would generally bring one.
Mr. BELIN. Now you say you left the sixth floor. Well, you said you
left it first to go--did you go down with the other employees on the
elevator?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About what time was that now?
Mr. GIVENS. That was about a quarter--I said about a quarter to 12.
Mr. BELIN. Who was on that elevator, do you remember?
Mr. GIVENS. That was Bonnie Ray Williams, and Billy Lovelady, and Danny
and myself.
Mr. BELIN. That was Danny Arce?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; a Spanish boy.
Mr. BELIN. Then you say you got down there and you say you wanted your
cigarettes so you went back up?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What elevator did you go down on?
Mr. GIVENS. I came down on the east elevator.
Mr. BELIN. What elevator did you take back up?
Mr. GIVENS. The east elevator.
Mr. BELIN. That day had you eaten any chicken at all, or anything on
the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Had you eaten any chicken or left a pop bottle on any
previous days on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go immediately to your jacket when you went back up
to the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; I went straight and picked up my jacket.
Mr. BELIN. Where was your jacket?
Mr. GIVENS. It was on the west side of the building where we were
working.
Mr. BELIN. Well, there are seven pairs of windows. Was it on the south
wall of the building? Was it near any one of those windows on the south
wall, or was it more to the center of the west side?
Mr. GIVENS. It was more to the corner on the west side. I would say
along about the second window going.
Mr. BELIN. When you say the corner, do you mean the corner by the
stairs or the southwest corner?
Mr. GIVENS. Southwest corner.
Mr. BELIN. You have shown the southwest corner?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; along about here [indicating].
Mr. BELIN. You have pointed to a spot which appears to be
approximately, oh, 25 feet north, and about 10 feet east of the
southwest corner of the sixth floor. Would that be about right?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You have pointed to a spot on this floor plan here. When you
walked from the east elevator to pick up your jacket, did you see Lee
Oswald there?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him anywhere on the sixth floor when you were
walking off the elevator to pick up your jacket?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; I didn't see him until I got back along here,
about in front of the elevator, fixing to get on.
Mr. BELIN. As you were walking to the first spot, which we will
describe as somewhat east of the east elevator, were you standing or
about to get on the elevator, or what?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; I was fixing to get on.
Mr. BELIN. You were fixing to get on? The elevator was still there
where you left it when you came up?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. As you were starting to get on the elevator or were turning
to get on it, you saw Lee Oswald walking with his clipboard?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now, was he walking in a diagonal direction directly toward
you and the elevator, or was he walking more in a direction parallel to
the east wall here?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I would say yes, sir; he was going like this.
Mr. BELIN. He was going?
Mr. GIVENS. Coming down the aisle.
Mr. BELIN. Coming down the aisle straight?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else in his hand other than a clipboard? Did he
have a pencil in his hand?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; I didn't pay any attention to him.
Mr. BELIN. When you got off the elevator, as you were coming back up to
get your shirt, did you have any occasion as you were walking out of
the elevator to look to see if there was anyone else on the floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I wasn't thinking of that. I just happened
to glance around as I was on my way back.
Mr. BELIN. Did you glance around when you got off the elevator, do you
remember?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, no, sir. I just walked off and turned and went right
over there and picked my jacket up and started back.
Mr. BELIN. Did you look over in the southeast corner before as you were
getting off the elevator?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I kind of glanced that way when I turned to go around
the corner.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone over there at that time?
Mr. GIVENS. Not at that time, no, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how high the books were by the southeast
corner on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I would say about 10 feet from the window. In the
aisle we had one pretty good stack of books there, one large stack.
Mr. BELIN. Would they have been as tall as you?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. If a man would have been standing up there, would you have
been able to see him?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; I wouldn't unless he moved down towards the north
end of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Did anyone else use any of the elevators while you were up
on the sixth floor getting your cigarettes?
Mr. GIVENS. Not that I know of; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever tell anyone that you saw Lee Oswald reading a
newspaper in the domino room around 11:50, 10 minutes to 12 on that
morning on November 22d?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever observe Lee Oswald getting the newspaper in the
domino room shortly before lunch on days other than November 22d?
Mr. GIVENS. Not before lunch. It would be right at lunch time.
Mr. BELIN. Right at lunch time?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. We always ate in there.
Mr. BELIN. Would Oswald always eat in there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. When you first went downstairs from the sixth floor to the
first floor with the other men on those two elevators, you took two
elevators, didn't you?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; we took two down.
Mr. BELIN. Were you racing the elevators?
Mr. GIVENS. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. Who won?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, the east elevator beat the other one down, because it
stopped quicker, but it had to adjust itself.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got down to the first floor before
you went back up to the sixth floor again?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I got a drink of water and reached for my cigarettes
and I thought about I left them in my jacket pocket.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go to the rest room at all before you went back up
to the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir. Yes, sir, I believe I did. I went in and washed my
hands, I sure did.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else before you went back up to the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir; that was it.
Mr. BELIN. Now the first time when you left the sixth floor with these
other men to take the two elevators down, did you at any time look over
to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I didn't pay any attention the first time I
was coming down.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you laying the new floor that morning? What
portion of the sixth floor would it be?
Mr. GIVENS. West side.
Mr. BELIN. How much of the west side?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, we were working, I would say, about 10 feet from Elm
Street.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you were pointing to right over this point here?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes sir.
Mr. BELIN. Well, looking at the scale, it would be about 10 feet from
the--it would be more than 10 feet. Here is the scale.
This would be 20 feet, so it would be more than 20 feet from Elm Street?
Mr. GIVENS. About 20 feet, maybe so.
Mr. BELIN. Do you think it was closer to 10 feet than 20 feet from the
Elm Street side of the west part of the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. I believe it was somewhere in that vicinity.
Mr. BELIN. How close was it to the west wall on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, we were, oh, I would say about 20 feet out from the
wall, we had laid.
Mr. BELIN. Did anyone else ever comment to you as having seen Oswald on
the sixth floor that morning?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, is there anything else you can think of that
happened that morning up to the time you heard the shot?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir. Everything was all right until that.
Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. GIVENS. Three.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you heard them?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, we broke and ran down that way, and by the time we
got to the corner down there of Houston and Elm, everybody was running,
going toward the underpass over there by the railroad tracks.