Mr. BALL. From the building. That would be, I suppose, a measurement
along the street.
Mr. DILLARD. I would say it was just before we reached the corner of
Elm and Houston Streets.
Mr. BALL. You were south of Elm and Houston, were you?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. About how far? Well, perhaps as a photographer, you can give
me a more accurate estimate this way; tell me how far you think your
camera was from the upper windows when you shot that picture?
Mr. DILLARD. Oh, it wasn't over 50, 60 yards.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything in the windows?
Mr. DILLARD. No.
Mr. BALL. You didn't see a rifle barrel?
Mr. DILLARD. No.
Mr. BALL. But you did see some figures or forms in the window?
Mr. DILLARD. Only in the windows which was the windows below.
Mr. BALL. How many forms did you see in the windows below?
Mr. DILLARD. I saw two men in the windows, at least the arched windows.
I saw them in my picture. I was making the picture my eyes were
covering.
Mr. BALL. You saw them as you were taking the picture?
Mr. DILLARD. I may have; I don't know.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember if you saw two or three figures?
Mr. DILLARD. I don't remember.
Mr. BALL. But you did see some figures and you cannot be accurate?
Mr. DILLARD. Right.
Mr. BALL. Your car stopped where?
Mr. DILLARD. I remember, we were stopping and starting down Houston
Street or moving very slowly while this shooting was going on, and I
know we came around the corner of Houston and Elm and saw people lying
on the ground down the hill on the sides of the lawns there in the
plaza, and I jumped out of my car. The car stopped then and I got out
and I don't know what happened.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after you go out?
Mr. DILLARD. Well, I made a picture of cars moving into the sun under
the underpass, somebody chasing the car and I looked at the situation
in that area and saw absolutely nothing of the Presidential car or
anything that appeared worth photographing to me at the time.
Mr. BALL. How long did you stay around there?
Mr. DILLARD. Perhaps 2 minutes.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go?
Mr. DILLARD. Another car, Chevrolet convertible, of the party came by
with, I assume, dignitaries in it and I jumped on the back of it and we
started--I told them, of course, who I was and we started out Stemmons
Expressway toward the Trade Mart and I explained to them what I knew
and tried to hold onto the back of that car at rather high speed. I
never saw the Presidential car.
Mr. BALL. Do you have any idea or any impression as to the source of
the explosions--what direction it was coming from?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, I felt that, at the time, I felt like it was coming
from a north area and quite close, and I might qualify I have had a
great deal of experience. I am a gun nut and have a great number of
high-powered rifles at home, so I know a little bit about guns.
Mr. BALL. You have had experience with rifles?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, I have shot a great deal, so I am familiar with
the noise that they made in that area. We were getting a sort of
reverberation which made it difficult to pinpoint the actual direction
but my feeling was that it was coming into my face and, in that I was
facing north toward the School Depository--I might add that I very
definitely smelled gun powder when the car moved up at the corner.
Mr. BALL. You did?
Mr. DILLARD. I very definitely smelled it.
Mr. BALL. By that you mean when you moved up to the corner of Elm and
Houston?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes; now, there developed a very brisk north wind.
Mr. BALL. That was in front of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, it's rather close--the corner is rather close. I
mentioned it, I believe, that it was rather surprising to me.
Mr. BALL. Who did you mention it to?
Mr. DILLARD. Bob, I'm sure.
Mr. BALL. Bob Jackson?
Mr. DILLARD. Yeah, Bob and I were talking about it.
Mr. BALL. You developed your pictures, didn't you?
Mr. DILLARD. I don't remember.
Mr. BALL. Or did you turn them over?
Mr. DILLARD. I printed them.
Mr. BALL. You printed them?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, I don't remember whether I developed that roll or
not. I may have.
Mr. BALL. Did you do that the same day?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, immediately thereafter, shortly after I came back
from the hospital.
Mr. BALL. Then you examined the pictures that you had taken--those two
pictures you had taken?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes.