Mr. DILLARD. Channel 5--Darnell, I think his name is, and the driver of
the car which I don't believe I remember his name. It was a Chevrolet
convertible.
Mr. BALL. Your car was about sixth, was it?
Mr. DILLARD. I believe.
Mr. BALL. From the President's car?
Mr. DILLARD. From the President's car. We lost our position out at the
airport. I understood we were supposed to have been quite a bit closer.
We were assigned as the prime photographic car which, as you probably
know, normally a truck precedes the President on these things and
certain representatives of the photographic press ride with the truck.
In this case, as you know, we didn't have any and this car that I was
in was to take any photographs which was of spot-news nature.
Mr. BALL. As you turned from Main Street onto Houston, was the
President's car in sight at that time?
Mr. DILLARD. No; and the whole parade, the whole trip to town, I could
only distinguish the President's car on very few occasions in high
rises in the ground, when we got on hills. It was difficult because the
people in the cars ahead of me were sitting on the backs of cars which
pretty well covered the President's car for me. We had a very, very
poor view of the President's car at any time from the time the parade
started.
Mr. BALL. Can you tell me whether or not the President's car had made
the turn off Houston Street when your car turned north on Houston?
Mr. DILLARD. It had.
Mr. BALL. It had?
Mr. DILLARD. No; I won't say it had. I think it had because, like I
say, I could never see the car very well. I believe it had.
Mr. BALL. Where were you sitting in the car?
Mr. DILLARD. I was sitting in the right front.
Mr. BALL. Who was in the front seat with you?
Mr. DILLARD. Oh, I don't remember; I think Jackson was sitting beside
me--no; I believe Jackson was sitting in the back. I don't remember
what our locations were.
Mr. BALL. But you know you were in the right front?
Mr. DILLARD. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear something unusual as you were driving north on
Houston?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes; I heard an explosion which I made the comment that
I believe, in my memory, I believe I said, "My God, they've thrown a
torpedo" and why I said "torpedo", I don't know. If you wish, I'll go
ahead----
Mr. BALL. Go ahead with your story.
Mr. DILLARD. Well, then I later estimated, immediately later,
estimated, oh, 4, about 3 or 4 seconds, another explosion and my
comment was, "No, It's heavy rifle fire," and I remember very
distinctly I said, "It's very heavy rifle fire."
Mr. BALL. How many explosions did you hear?
Mr. DILLARD. I heard three--the three approximately equally spaced.
Mr. BALL. What is the best estimate of the position of your car with
reference to the turn at Main and Houston when you heard the first
explosion?
Mr. DILLARD. Perhaps, oh, just a few feet around the corner and it
seems we had slowed a great deal. It seems that our car had slowed down
so that we were moving rather slowly and perhaps just passed the turn
when I heard the first explosion.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear anyone in your car say anything?
Mr. DILLARD. Well, after the third shot I know my comment was, "They
killed him." I don't know why I said that but Jackson--there was some
running comment about what can we do or where is it coming from and
we were all looking. We had an absolutely perfect view of the School
Depository from our position in the open car, and Bob Jackson said,
"There's a rifle barrel up there." I said, "Where?" I had my camera
ready. He said, "It's in that open window." Of course, there were
several open windows and I scanned the building.
Mr. BALL. Which building?
Mr. DILLARD. The School Depository. And at the same time I brought my
camera up and I was looking for the window. Now, this was after the
third shot and Jackson said, "There's the rifle barrel up there," and
then he said it was the second from the top in the right-hand side, and
I swung to it and there was two figures below, and I just shot with
one camera, 100-mm. lens on a 35-mm. camera which is approximately a
two times daily photo twice normal lens and a wide angle on a 35-mm.
which took in a considerable portion of the building and I shot those
pictures in rapid sequence with the two cameras.
Mr. BALL. You shot how many pictures?
Mr. DILLARD. Two pictures.
Mr. BALL. With one camera or two different cameras?
Mr. DILLARD. Two different cameras--one daily photo, not extreme daily
photo, but twice the normal lens.
Mr. BALL. You say your cameras were ready? How were they ready?
Mr. DILLARD. Hung around my neck and held in my hand.
Mr. BALL. You brought them up and focused and shot?
Mr. DILLARD. Well, on the whole ride, I had been watching the tops of
buildings and watching for any signs or anything unusual which, of
course, is a newsman's chore on a parade like that. We were badly--in a
very bad position from our viewpoint to cover anything on the parade,
so we were all, as any news photographer is, rather tense when he is
covering a Presidential or an affair of that sort and he is trying to
get whatever pictures possible and watching for every possibility, and
so we all tried for a number of things. Incidentally, the only unusual
thing in the parade that I noticed was the President--I understand the
President stopped his car at Lemmon and Loma Alta, which is out in the
near suburbs of Dallas, as I understand, at the request of a sign that
said, "Mr. President, stop and shake hands with us." I jumped out of
the car--it was a convertible with the top down--and tried to run to
get pictures of it but by that time the parade started and I was unable
to get up that far.
Mr. BALL. When you shot these two pictures of the Texas School Book
Depository Building, how far were you from the building, would you say?