The testimony of Dr. Adolph Hartung Giesecke, Jr., was taken at 1:40
p.m., on March 25, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex.,
by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the Presidents Commission.
Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that Dr. A. H. Giesecke, Jr., is
present in response to a letter request from the Commission to appear
at this deposition proceeding in connection with the President's
Commission to Investigate the Assassination of President Kennedy,
including his medical treatment at Parkland Hospital.
Dr. Giesecke has been asked to appear to testify about his knowledge of
the treatment that President Kennedy and Governor Connally received at
Parkland Hospital on November 22, and with that preliminary statement
of purpose and objective, would you please stand up, Dr. Giesecke, and
raise your right hand?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give before this
President's Commission in these deposition proceedings will be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes; I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name, please, for the record?
Dr. GIESECKE. Adolph Hartung Giesecke, Jr. H-a-r-t-u-n-g (spelling).
Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession?
Dr. GIESECKE. I am a physician and anesthesiologist.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you duly licensed to practice medicine in the State of
Texas?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you board-certified?
Dr. GIESECKE. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you working for board-certification?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you outline briefly your educational background,
please?
Dr. GIESECKE. I graduated--how far back do you want me to go?
Mr. SPECTER. Start with college, graduation from college, if you would,
please.
Dr. GIESECKE. I was on an accelerated plan through the University of
Texas but have no college degree. I matriculated to medical school
in 1953, September 1953, graduated May 30, 1957, from the University
of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, Tex. I did my internship at
William Beaumont Army Hospital at El Paso, following which I served
24 months on active duty in the Army as an aviation medical officer.
I was stationed primarily at the Presidio at San Francisco, Calif.
Upon discharge from the Army, I came to Parkland Hospital, completed a
3-year residency in anesthesiology in July 1963. Since that time I have
been an assistant professor on the anesthesiology staff at Southwestern
Medical School.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to render medical attention to
President Kennedy on November 22, 1963?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you outline the circumstances under which you were
called into that matter?
Dr. GIESECKE. I was eating lunch in the cafeteria when Dr. Jenkins
approached the table and told me that the President had been shot and
asked me to bring some resuscitative equipment from the operating room
to the emergency room, which I did.
Mr. SPECTER. And at what time did you arrive at the emergency room,
approximately?
Dr. GIESECKE. Can I look and see when I induced the Governor?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes. May the record show that Dr. Giesecke is now
referring to a letter from A. H. Giesecke, Jr., M.D., to Mr. C. J.
Price, administrator, dated November 25, 1963, which I will ask the
reporter to mark as "Dr. Giesecke's Exhibit No. 1."
(Instrument referred to marked by the reporter as "Dr. Giesecke Exhibit
No. 1," for identification.)
Mr. SPECTER. Let me ask you a question or two, first about this, Dr.
Giesecke, to qualify--is this a copy of the report which you submitted
to Mr. Price?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes, that is a real copy.
Mr. SPECTER. And all the facts contained in this report are true and
correct?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And do they concern the treatment which was rendered by
you to President Kennedy and Governor Connally?
Dr. GIESECKE. That's correct.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, refer to that if you wish, if it will help you answer
the last question.
Dr. GIESECKE. I arrived in the emergency room at 12:40 p.m., between
12:40 and 12:45.
Mr. SPECTER. And who was present at the time you arrived?
Dr. GIESECKE. Dr. Jenkins was present, Dr. Carrico, Dr. Dulany, Dr.
Baxter, Dr. Perry, Dr. McClelland, and Drs. Akin and Hunt arrived at
the same time that I did.
Mr. SPECTER. Were there any other people present, such as nurses?
Dr. GIESECKE. Mrs. Kennedy was in the room--I could not say--I can't
say who else was there. There may have been a nurse there, I just don't
remember. It seemed to me there was a Secret Service man there too,
with Mrs. Kennedy.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you sure Dr. Dulany was there, as distinguished from
being with Governor Connally?
Dr. GIESECKE. Perhaps--perhaps--I'm shaky on that.
Mr. SPECTER. The reason I asked you about that specifically is because
Dr. Carriro testified this morning that he and Dr. Dulany were on duty
and Dr. Dulany went immediately with Governor Connally and Dr. Carrico
went to President Kennedy.
Dr. GIESECKE. That may well be.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the condition of the President when you arrived?
Dr. GIESECKE. There was a great deal of blood loss which was apparent
when he came in the room--the cart was covered with blood and there
was a great deal of blood on the floor. There was--I could see no
spontaneous motion on the part of the President. In other words, he
made no movement during the time that I was in the room. As I moved
around towards the head of the emergency cart with the anesthesia
machine and the resuscitative equipment and helped Dr. Jenkins to
hook the anesthesia machine up to the President to give him oxygen,
I noticed that he had a very large cranial wound, with loss of brain
substance, and it seemed that most of the bleeding was coming from the
cranial wound.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe specifically as to the nature of the
cranial wound?
Dr. GIESECKE. It seemed that from the vertex to the left ear, and from
the browline to the occiput on the left-hand side of the head the
cranium was entirely missing.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that the left-hand side of the head, or the right-hand
side of the head?
Dr. GIESECKE. I would say the left, but this is just my memory of it.
Mr. SPECTER. That's your recollection?
Dr. GIESECKE. Right, like I say, I was there a very short time--really.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any other wound or bullet hole below the
large area of missing skull?
Dr. GIESECKE. No; when I arrived the tracheotomy was in progress at
that time and so I observed no other wound except the one on the
cranium.
Mr. SPECTER. On the cranium itself, did you observe another bullet hole
below the portion of missing skull?
Dr. GIESECKE. No, sir; this was found later by Dr. Clark--I didn't see
this.
Mr. SPECTER. What makes you say that that hole was found later by Dr.
Clark?
Dr. GIESECKE. Well, this is hearsay--I wasn't there when they found it
and I didn't notice it.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, Dr. Clark didn't observe that hole.
Dr. GIESECKE. Oh, he didn't--I'm sorry.
Mr. SPECTER. From whom did you hear that the hole had been observed, if
you recollect?
Dr. GIESECKE. Oh--I must be confused. We talked to so many people about
these things--I don't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, with respect to the condition of the President's
neck, what was its status at the time you first observed it?
Dr. GIESECKE. Well, like I say, they were performing the tracheotomy,
and I personally saw no wound in the neck other than the tracheotomy
wound. As soon as the tracheotomy was completed, we removed the
endotracheal tube and hooked the anesthesia machine to the tracheotomy
tube and efforts were made then to put in a chest tube, an anterior
chest tube.
Mr. SPECTER. How long were you with President Kennedy altogether?
Dr. GIESECKE. Approximately 5 minutes.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you now described everything which was done during
the time you were there?
Dr. GIESECKE. No--after having assisted Dr. Jenkins in establishing
a ventilation, I then hooked up a cardiotachioscope or an electronic
electrocardiographic monitor to the President by putting needles in the
skin and plugging the thing in the wall, plugging the monitor in the
wall. Before the machine had sufficient time to warm up to see if there
were any electrical activity, then I was called out of the room.
Mr. SPECTER. And did you have any occasion to return to the room where
the President was?
Dr. GIESECKE. No.
Mr. SPECTER. And where were you called to?
Dr. GIESECKE. I was called across the hall where Governor Connally
was being moved out of the emergency treatment room and toward the
operating room.
Mr. SPECTER. And what action did you take at that time, if any?
Dr. GIESECKE. I had my equipment with me--I had taken my equipment
with me from the room where the President was, having ascertained that
Dr. Jenkins didn't need anything that I had, and so I proceeded to the
elevator. We moved the equipment and the Governor--the Governor went on
the first elevator and I caught the second one.
Mr. SPECTER. And where did you go on the second elevator?
Dr. GIESECKE. To the second floor where the operating suite is, moved
off of the elevator and down to operating room 5, which was being set
up for the Governor. The Governor had arrived and I obtained from
the anesthesia orderly an anesthesia machine, checked it for safe
operation, and discussed the Governor's condition a little bit with
him, and determined that he was conscious and that he could respond to
questions and that he hadn't eaten in the previous several hours, and
proceeded to induce an anesthesia.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, are all the details of your activity in connection
with Governor Connally's operation contained in the report marked "Dr.
Giesecke's Exhibit No. 1"?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you mentioned a few minutes ago that you talked about
this matter with a number of people--whom have you talked to, Dr.
Giesecke?
Dr. GIESECKE. Well, of course, we discussed it with Dr. Jenkins
and various members of the anesthesia staff. We have discussed it
with--I've forgotten that gentleman's name, but he was from the
American Medical Association, as a historian. We discussed it with Dr.
Mike Bush, who then reported it in the Anesthesiology Newsletter, which
is a publication of the American Society of Anesthesiologists, and then
discussed it with the Secretary of--may I retract that. That's about
it--that's the extent of the discussion, except with other members of
the surgical staff and the anesthesia staff and these people.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever discussed this matter with any
representative of the Federal Government prior to today?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes; there was a well documented Secret Service man here
who said he was from the Warren Commission about a month ago, I imagine.
Mr. SPECTER. What do you mean by "well documented"?
Dr. GIESECKE. Well, I mean he had a badge and a card and he seemed to
be legitimate.
Mr. SPECTER. And what did you tell him, if anything?
Dr. GIESECKE. He was asking rather specifically if we had made other
notes than the reports that we had already submitted, so in essence
it was just a matter of telling him, "No, I didn't have any other
information written down except what I had already given."
Mr. SPECTER. And what had you already given--that letter report?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. That is marked "Giesecke Exhibit No. 1"?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Has any other representative talked to you from the
Federal Government about this matter?
Dr. GIESECKE. No.
Mr. SPECTER. This afternoon prior to the time we went on the record,
did I ask you a few questions and discuss the nature of this deposition
proceeding, and did you give me information just as you have on the
record here after the court reporter started to take everything down?
Dr. GIESECKE. Yes; that's correct. She was out of the room for a few
minutes before we started.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think might be
helpful to the Warren Commission in its investigation?
Dr. GIESECKE. No, I think that pretty well covers what I did.
Mr. SPECTER. May I thank you very much, Dr. Giesecke? That's fine.
Dr. GIESECKE. Thank you.