Scotland, and he told me that the minister of the church he frequented
had 250_l_. a-year from the Establishment Funds, which he thought
very much too little, and he felt certain that, if the Establishment
were abolished, and the Church made into a Free Church, the salary of
the minister would be immediately advanced to at least 500_l_. a-
year. That is a very good argument for the ministers, and we shall see
by-and-by, if the conversion of Scotland proceeds much further, that you
may be asked to disestablish their Church. The hon. Member for Honiton
last night quoted something which, I daresay, he did not recollect
accurately--something which I had said respecting the Church of England;
but the fact is that the Church of England is not suffering from the
assaults of the Liberation Society; it is suffering from a very
different complaint. It is an internal complaint. You have had it before
one of the courts of law within the last few days, and a very curious
decision has been given,--that candles are lawful, but incense is
something terrible, and cannot be allowed; and then the newspapers tell
you that on the very next Sunday there is more incense in that
particular church which has been complained of than there ever had been
before.
I will tell hon. Gentlemen opposite what it is that endangers the State
Church now--I mean a State Church like this in England, against which
there is no violent political assault. It is the prevalence of zeal.
Whenever zeal creeps into a State Church, it takes naturally different
forms--one strongly Evangelical, another strongly High Church or
Ritualist--and these two species of zeal work on and on in opposition,
until finally there comes a catastrophe, and it is found that it is not
Mr. Miall and the Liberation Society, although they have prepared men's
minds not to dread it, but it is something wholly different, within the
Church itself, that causes the disruption of the Church. The Scottish
disruption did not take place from any assaults from without--it took
place from zeal and difficulties within; and if you could keep the whole
of the Church of England perfectly harmonious within its own borders, it
would take a very daring prophet who would undertake to point out the
time when it would be disestablished.
We will confine ourselves, therefore, to Ireland, and I will ask hon.
Gentlemen this: I believe Gentlemen opposite do not usually reject the
view which we entertain, that the abolition of the State Church in
Ireland would tend to lessen the difficulties of governing that country.
I think there is scarcely an hon. Gentleman on the other side, who has
not some doubt of his previous opinions, some slight misgiving on this
point, and some disposition to accept our view of the case. Well, why
should you be afraid? Even children, we know, can be induced, by
repeated practice, to go into a dark room without fear. You have always,
somebody said the other night, lions in the path; but I will not dignify
them with the name of lions--they are but hobgoblins. Now, when you have
seen and handled them, as you have a great many times since I have been
in the habit of speaking face to face with you, these things are found,
after all, to be only hobgoblins; you have learned, after all, that they
are perfectly harmless; and when you thought we were doing you harm, and
upsetting the Constitution, you have found that, after all, we were
doing you good, and that the Constitution was rather stronger than it
was before. Let me point out for a moment some of these changes that
were found at the time to be of great difficulty, but have been found to
be very wise and good afterwards.
When I came into this House, nearly twenty-five years ago, our colonial
system was wholly different from what it is now. It has been changed:
Sir William Molesworth and Joseph Hume were mainly the authors in
Parliament of that change. Well, all our colonies, as we all admit, are
much more easily governed and much more loyal than they were in those
days. Turning then to our financial system--and I really do not want to
offend any one by mentioning this--you know that our financial system,
since Sir Robert Peel came into office in 1841, has been completely
changed, and yet the revenue of the country is larger, which I regard as
a misfortune--and not only larger, but more secure by far, if Parliament
requires it, than it was at any previous period of our history. Take the
old protective system, which the hon. Member for North Warwickshire (Mr.
Newdegate) and some others have not forgotten. Free-trade was a
frightful monster. But the protective system is gone; and now every
candid man amongst you will admit that industry, being more free
throughout the country, is better rewarded, and that the land, which you
said would go out of cultivation, and become of no value, sells for a
higher price in the market than it ever brought before.
There are two other points on which I wish to add a word. One was
mentioned last night after many Members had gone home. The balance of
power was once considered the beginning and end of our foreign policy,
and I am not sure that there are not some old statesmen in the other
House who believe in it even yet. What was done last night? The noble
Lord the Member for Haddingtonshire, who comes up from Scotland brimfull
of enthusiasm for impossible projects, proposed to put in words which
had been rejected from the preamble of the Mutiny Bill relating to the
preservation of the balance of power. What did one of your most
distinguished Ministers, the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for War,
say in reference to the proposition? He said he thought it singular that
the hon. Member for Chatham should have proposed to omit the words,
because they really meant nothing, but he was still more surprised that
the noble Lord should have asked to have them replaced. Well, thus you
see that this balance of power is gone, and yet England, I will
undertake to say, under the rational and fair administration of foreign
affairs by the noble Lord the Member for King's Lynn, is just as much
respected by all foreign Powers as she was when we were ready to meddle
in every stupid quarrel that occurred upon the Continent of Europe.
Now, there is only one other thing to which I will advert--the question
of the representation. You know, in 1830, there was almost no
representation. There were a few towns in which there was almost
universal suffrage, and many scores of rotten boroughs; in fact, the
whole system was in such a state of congestion that it could not be
tolerated any longer, and we had a small, but which might have been a
very large revolution, in amending that state of things. Last year you,
who had seen this hobgoblin for years, who had thought, I have no doubt,
many of you, that I was very unwise and very rash in the mode in which I
had proposed to extend the suffrage; last year you found out that it was
not so monstrous a thing after all, and you became almost enthusiastic
in support of the right hon. Gentleman's Reform Bill. Well, you believe
now, and the First Minister, if this was an occasion on which he had to
speak about it, would tell you not to be afraid of what was done,--he
would tell you that, based on the suffrage of a larger portion of your
countrymen, Parliament will henceforth be more strong and more venerated
by the people than ever it has been before.
If that is true of Parliament, what shall we say of the Throne itself
after all these changes? I will venture to ask, whatever of convenience
there may be in hereditary monarchy, whatever of historic grandeur in
the kingly office, whatever of nobleness in the possessor of the Crown,
in all these things is it not true that everything is at least as fully
recognised by the nation as it ever was at any previous period? I do not
mention these things to reproach anybody here. We all have to learn.
There are many in this House who have been in process of learning for a
good while. I am not sure that my right hon. Friend the Member for South
Lancashire would not admit to us that on this very question of the Irish
Church his opinions have been greatly expanded, and have been ripening
for a series of years. That is greatly to the credit, not only of his
head, but of his heart. We have seen even amongst you a progress in many
things--a progress which is most gratifying to me--that is a very small
matter; but it is a very wholesome indication that the minds of men are
becoming more open to the consideration of great principles in
connection with great public questions. And this gives us promise that
in future we shall have--as, no doubt, we shall have--a Government more
in accordance with public opinion and public interests than we have had
in past times.
In my opinion, the changes that have been made in our time are the glory
of our time, and I believe that our posterity will regard them as the
natural and blessed fruits of the growth of intelligence in our day. I
mention these things to urge you not to close your ears to the arguments
nor to close your hearts to the impressions of justice which must assail
you with regard to this question which is now being debated so much in
Great Britain and Ireland. I might appeal to a right hon. Gentleman who
perhaps is in the House--the Member for the County of Limerick--who was
at a very remarkable meeting held the other day in Limerick on this very
question. I have heard from sources which cannot, I think, be
questioned, that it was one of the most remarkable meetings held in
Ireland within the last twenty years, or, perhaps, I might say for a
longer period. There was a far more healthy tone of mind, of conduct, of
feeling, of expression, of everything we wish for, but have not known
there for a very long period; and I believe and know--because I am told
by witnesses who cannot be contradicted--that the change arose from the
growing belief that there was a sufficient majority in this House, that
the general opinion of Parliament was sufficiently strong, to enable
this measure of justice and reconciliation to be passed. Now, I ask you,
if, after what has taken place, you are able, unhappily able, to prevent
the progress of the movement which is now on foot for the
disestablishment of the State Church in Ireland, are you not of opinion
that it will create great dissatisfaction; that it will add to the
existing discontent; that it will make those that are hopeful despair;
and that men--rash men, if you like--strong and earnest men, will speak
to those that hitherto have not been rash, and have not been earnest,
and will say, 'You see at last; is this not a proof convincing and
unanswerable, that the Imperial Parliament sitting in London is not
capable of hearing our complaints, and of doing that justice which we as
a people require at its hands?'
Do not imagine that I am speaking with personal hostility to the right
hon. Gentleman who is your Chief Minister here. Do not imagine for a
moment that I am one of those, if there be any, who are hoping to drive
hon. Gentlemen from that bench in order that I may take one of the
places occupied by them. I would treat this subject as a thing far
beyond and far above party differences. The question comes before the
House, of course, as all these great questions must, as a great party
question, and I am one of the Members of this party; but it does not
follow that all the Members of a party should be actuated by a party
spirit, or by a miserable, low ambition to take the place of a Minister
of the Crown. I say there is something far higher and better than that;
and if ever there was a question presented to Parliament which invited
the exercise of the highest and noblest feelings of Members of the
House, I say this is that question.
I say, then, do not be alarmed at what is proposed. Let us take this
Irish State Church; let us take it, not with a rude--I am against
rudeness and harshness in legislative action--but if not with a rude,
still with a resolute grasp. If you adopt the policy we recommend, you
will pluck up a weed which pollutes the air. ['Oh! Oh!'] I will give
hon. Gentlemen consolation in the conclusion of the sentence--I say you
will pluck up a weed which pollutes the air; but you will leave a free
Protestant Church, which will be hereafter an ornament and a grace to
all those who may be brought within the range of its influence. Sir, I
said in the beginning of my observations that there are the people of
three kingdoms who are waiting with anxious suspense for the solution of
this question. Ireland waits and longs. I appeal to the right hon.
Gentleman the Member for Limerick; I appeal to that Meeting, the
character of which he can describe, and perhaps may describe, to the
House; and I say that Ireland waits and longs for a great act of
reconciliation. I say, further, that England and Scotland are eager to
make atonement for past crimes and past errors; and I say, yet further,
that it depends upon us, this House of Commons, this Imperial
Parliament, whether that reconciliation shall take place, and whether
that atonement shall at length be made.
* * * * *
WAR
WITH
RUSSIA.
I.
WAR WITH RUSSIA--THE QUEEN'S MESSAGE.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 31, 1854.
_From Hansard._
[Mr. Bright was opposed to the war with Russia. This speech was spoken
on the day when the message from the Crown announcing the declaration of
war was brought down to the House.]
There are two reasons which may induce a Member of this House to address
it--he may hope to convince some of those to whom he speaks, or he may
wish to clear himself from any participation in a course which he
believes to be evil. I presume I am one of that small section of the
House to whom the hon. Gentleman who has just spoken (Mr. Layard) has
referred, when he alluded to the small party who objected to the policy
by which this country has arrived at the 'triumphant position which it
now occupies.' In coming forward to speak on this occasion, I may be
told that I am like a physician proposing to prescribe to-day for a man
who died yesterday, and that it is of no use to insist upon views which
the Government and the House have already determined to reject. I feel,
however, that we are entering upon a policy which may affect the
fortunes of this country for a long time to come, and I am unwilling to
lose this opportunity of explaining wherein I differ from the course
which the Government has pursued, and of clearing myself from any
portion of the responsibility which attaches to those who support the
policy which the Government has adopted.
We are asked to give our confidence to the Administration in voting the
Address to the Crown, which has been moved by the noble Lord the Member
for London, and to pledge our support to them in the war in which the
country is now to engage. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for
Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli), on a recent occasion, made use of a term
which differed considerably from what he said in a former debate; he
spoke of this war as a 'just and unnecessary war.' I shall not discuss
the justice of the war. It may be difficult to decide a point like this,
seeing that every war undertaken since the days of Nimrod has been
declared to be just by those in favour of it; but I may at least
question whether any war that is unnecessary can be deemed to be just. I
shall not discuss this question on the abstract principle of peace at
any price, as it is termed, which is held by a small minority of persons
in this country, founded on religious opinions which are not generally
received, but I shall discuss it entirely on principles which are
accepted by all the Members of this House. I shall maintain that when we
are deliberating on the question of war, and endeavouring to prove its
justice or necessity, it becomes us to show that the interests of the
country are clearly involved; that the objects for which the war is
undertaken are probable, or, at least, possible of attainment; and,
further, that the end proposed to be accomplished is worth the cost and
the sacrifices which we are about to incur. I think these are fair
principles on which to discuss the question, and I hope that when the
noble Lord the Member for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) rises during this
debate, he will not assume that I have dealt with it on any other
principles than these.
The House should bear in mind that at this moment we are in intimate
alliance with a neighbouring Government, which was, at a recent period,
the originator of the troubles which have arisen at Constantinople. I do
not wish to blame the French Government, because nothing could have been
more proper than the manner in which it has retired from the difficulty
it had created; but it is nevertheless quite true that France, having
made certain demands upon Turkey with regard to concessions to the Latin
Church, backed by a threat of the appearance of a French fleet in the
Dardanelles, which demands Turkey had wholly or partially complied with;
Russia, the powerful neighbour of Turkey, being on the watch, made
certain other demands, having reference to the Greek Church; and Russia
at the same time required (and this I understand to be the real ground
of the quarrel) that Turkey should define by treaty, or convention, or
by a simple note, or memorandum, what was conceded, and what were the
rights of Russia, in order that the Government of Russia might not
suffer in future from the varying policy and the vacillation of the
Ottoman Government.
Now, it seems to me quite impossible to discuss this question without
considering the actual condition of Turkey. The hon. Member for
Aylesbury (Mr. Layard) assumes that they who do not agree in the policy
he advocates are necessarily hostile to the Turks, and have no sympathy
for Turkey. I repudiate such an assumption altogether. I can feel for a
country like that, if it be insulted or oppressed by a powerful
neighbour; but all that sympathy may exist without my being able to
convince myself that it is the duty of this country to enter into the
serious obligation of a war in defence of the rights of that country.
The noble Lord the Member for Tiverton is one of the very few men in
this House, or out of it, who are bold enough to insist upon it that
there is a growing strength in the Turkish Empire. There was a Gentleman
in this House, sixty years ago, who, in the debates in 1791, expressed
the singular opinion which the noble Lord now holds. There was a Mr.
Stanley in the House at that period, who insisted on the growing power
of Turkey, and asserted that the Turks of that day 'were more and more
imitating our manners, and emerging from their inactivity and indolence;
that improvements of every kind were being introduced among them, and
that even printing-presses had been lately established in their
capital.' That was the opinion of a Gentleman anxious to defend Turkey,
and speaking in this House more than sixty years ago; we are now living
sixty years later, and no one now, but the noble Lord, seems to insist
upon the fact of the great and growing power of the Turkish Empire.
If any one thing is more apparent than another, on the face of all the
documents furnished to the House by the Government of which the noble
Lord is a Member, it is this, that the Turkish Empire is falling, or has
fallen, into a state of decay, and into anarchy so permanent as to have
assumed a chronic character. The noble Lord surely has not forgotten
that Turkey has lost the Crimea and Bessarabia, and its control over the
Danubian Principalities; that the Kingdom of Greece has been carved out
of it; that it has lost its authority over Algiers, and has run great
risk of being conquered by its own vassal the Pasha of Egypt; and from
this he might have drawn the conclusion that the empire was gradually
falling into decay, and that to pledge ourselves to effect its recovery
and sustentation, is to undertake what no human power will be able to
accomplish. I only ask the House to turn to the statements which will be
found nearly at the end of the first of the Blue Books recently placed
on the table of the House, and they will find that there is scarcely any
calamity which can be described as afflicting any country, which is not
there proved to be present, and actively at work, in almost every
province of the Turkish Empire. And the House should bear in mind, when
reading these despatches from the English Consuls in Turkey to the
English Ambassador at Constantinople, that they give a very faint
picture of what really exists, because what are submitted to us are but
extracts of more extended and important communications. It may fairly be
assumed that the parts which are not published are those which described
the state of things to be so bad, that the Government has been unwilling
to lay before the House, and the country, and the world, that which
would be so offensive and so injurious to its ally the Sultan of Turkey.
But, if other evidence be wanting, is it not a fact that Constantinople
is the seat of intrigues and factions to a degree not known in any other
country or capital in the world? France demands one thing, Russia
another, England a third, and Austria something else. For many years
past our Ambassador at Constantinople has been partly carrying on the
government of that country, and influencing its policy, and it is the
city in which are fought the diplomatic contests of the Great Powers of
Europe. And if I have accurately described the state of Turkey, what is
the position of Russia? It is a powerful country, under a strong
Executive Government; it is adjacent to a weak and falling nation; it
has in its history the evidences of a succession of triumphs over
Turkey; it has religious affinities with a majority of the population of
European Turkey which make it absolutely impossible that its Government
should not, more or less, interfere, or have a strong interest, in the
internal policy of the Ottoman Empire. Now, if we were Russian--and I
put the case to the Members of this House--is it not likely, according
to all the theories I have heard explained when we have been concerned
in similar cases, that a large majority of the House and the country
would be strongly in favour of such intervention as Russia has
attempted? and if I opposed it, as I certainly should oppose it, I
should be in a minority on that question more insignificant than that in
which I have now the misfortune to find myself with regard to the policy
of the Government on the grave question now before us.