votes for measures for the whole kingdom; and a Member for Lancashire or
for Warwickshire, or for any other county or borough in Great Britain,
votes for measures not only for Great Britain but also for Ireland, and
therefore, all parts of the United Kingdom--every county, every borough,
every parish, every family, every man--has a clear and distinct and
undoubted interest in a Parliament that shall fairly and justly
represent the whole nation. Now, look for a moment at two or three facts
with regard to Ireland alone. I have stated some facts with regard to
England and Scotland at recent meetings held across the Channel.
Now for two or three facts with regard to Ireland. In Ireland you have
five boroughs returning each one Member, the average number of electors
in each of these boroughs being only 172. You have 13 boroughs, the
average number being 316. You have 9 other boroughs with an average
number of electors of 497. You have, therefore, 27 boroughs whose whole
number of electors, if they were all put together, is only 9,453, or an
average of 350 electors for each Member. I must tell you further that
you have a single county with nearly twice as many voters as the whole
of those 27 boroughs. Your 27 boroughs have only 9,453 electors, and the
county of Cork has 16,107 electors, and returns but two Members. But
that is not the worst of the case. It happens both in Great Britain and
Ireland, wherever the borough constituencies are so small, that it is
almost impossible that they should be independent; a very acute lawyer,
for example, in one of those boroughs--a very influential clergyman,
whether of your Church or ours--when I say ours, I do not mean mine, but
the Church of England--half-a-dozen men combining together, or a little
corruption from candidates going with a well-filled purse,--these are
the influences brought to bear upon those small boroughs both in England
and Ireland. A great many of them return their Members by means of
corruption, more or less, and a free and real representation of the
people is hardly ever possible in a borough of that small size.
But if I were to compare your boroughs with your counties, see how it
stands. You have thirty-nine borough Members, with 30,000 electors, and
you have sixty-four county Members, with 172,000 electors. Therefore you
see that the Members are so distributed that the great populations have
not one quarter of the influence in Parliament which those small
populations in the small boroughs have. We come next to another question
which is of great consequence. Not only are those small boroughs
altogether too email for independence, but if we come to your large
county constituencies, we find that from the peculiar circumstances and
the relations which exist between the voter and the owner of the land,
there is scarcely any freedom of election. Even in your counties I
should suppose that if there was no compulsion from the landowners or
their agents, that in at least three-fourths of this island the vote of
the county electors would be by a vast majority in favour of the Liberal
candidates. I am not speaking merely of men who profess a sort of
liberality which just enables them to go with their party, but I speak
of men who would be thoroughly in earnest in sustaining, as far as they
were able, in Parliament, the opinions which they were sent to represent
by the large constituencies who elected them.
The question of the ballot is, in my opinion, of the greatest importance
in Great Britain and Ireland, but is of more importance in the counties
than it is in the large boroughs. For example: in Great Britain, in such
boroughs as Edinburgh and Glasgow, and Manchester and Birmingham, and
the metropolitan boroughs, where the number of electors runs from 10,000
to 25,000, bribery is of no avail, because you could not bribe thousands
of men. To bribe 100 or 200 would not alter the return at an election
with so large a constituency. But what you want with the ballot is, that
in the counties where the tenant-farmers vote, and where they live upon
their land without the security of a lease, or without the security of
any law to give them compensation for any improvements they may have
made upon the land, the tenant-farmer feels himself always liable to
injury, and sometimes to ruin, if he gets into a dispute with the agent
or the landowner with regard to the manner in which he has exercised his
franchise. And what will be very important also, if you have the ballot,
your elections will be tranquil, without disorder and without riot. Last
week, or the week before, there was an election in one of your great
counties. Well, making every allowance that can be made for the
exaggerations circulated by the writers of the two parties, it is quite
clear to everybody that the circumstances of that election, though not
absolutely uncommon in Ireland, were still such as to be utterly
discreditable to a real representative system. And you must bear in mind
that there is no other people in the world that considers that it has a
fair representative system unless it has the ballot. The ballot is
universal almost in the United States. It is almost universal in the
colonies, at any rate in the Australian colonies; it is almost universal
on the continent of Europe, and in the new Parliament of North Germany,
which is about soon to be assembled, every man of twenty-five years of
age is to be allowed to vote, and to vote by ballot.
Now, I hold, without any fear of contradiction, that the intelligence
and the virtues of the people of Ireland are not represented in the
Parliament. You have your wrongs to complain of--wrongs centuries old,
and wrongs that long ago the people of Ireland, and, I venture to say,
the people of Great Britain united with Ireland----My friend up there
will not listen to the end of my sentence. I say that the people of
Great Britain, acting with the people of Ireland, in a fair
representation of the whole, would long ago have remedied every just
grievance of which you could complain.
I will take two questions which I treated upon the other evening. I will
ask about one question--that is, the question of the supremacy of the
Church in Ireland. Half the people in England are Nonconformists. They
are not in favour of an Established Church anywhere, and it is utterly
impossible that they could be in favour of an Established Church in an
island like this--an Established Church formed of a mere handful of the
population, in opposition to the wishes of the nation. Now take the
Principality of Wales. I suppose that four out of five of the population
there are Dissenters, and they are not in favour of maintaining a
religious Protestant Establishment in Ireland. The people of Scotland
have also seceded in such large numbers from their Established Church,
although of a democratic character, that I suppose those who have
seceded are a considerable majority of the whole people--they are not in
favour of maintaining an ecclesiastical Establishment in Ireland in
opposition to the views of the great majority of your people. Take the
other question--that of land. There is nobody in Great Britain of the
great town population, or of the middle class, or of the still more
numerous working class, who has any sympathy with that condition of the
law and of the administration of the law which has worked such mischiefs
in your country. But these Nonconformists, whether in England, Wales, or
Scotland, these great middle classes, and still greater working classes,
are in the position that you are. Only sixteen of every hundred have a
vote, and those sixteen are so arranged that when their representatives
get to Parliament they turn out for the most part to be no real
representatives of the people.
I will tell you fairly that you, as the less populous and less powerful
part of this great nation--you of all the men in the United Kingdom,
have by far the strongest interest in a thorough reform of the Imperial
Parliament, and I believe that you yourselves could not do yourselves
such complete justice by yourselves as you can do, by fairly acting with
the generous millions of my countrymen in whose name I stand here. You
have on this platform two members of the Reform League from London. I
received yesterday, or the day before, a telegram from the Scottish
Reform League, from Glasgow. I am not sure whether there is a copy of it
in any of the newspapers, but it was sent to me, and I presume it was
sent to me that I might read it, if I had the opportunity of meeting any
of the unenfranchised men of this city. It says:--'The Scottish Reform
League request you to convey to the Reformers in Ireland their deep
sympathy. They sincerely hope that soon in Ireland, as in Scotland and
England, Reform Leagues may be formed in every town to secure to the
people their political rights. Urge upon our friends in Ireland their
duty to promote this great movement, and to secure at home those
benefits which thousands of their fellow-countrymen are forced to seek
in other lands--where land and State Church grievances are unknown. We
also seek cooperation, knowing that our freedom, though secure tomorrow,
would not be safe so long as one portion of the United Kingdom were less
free than the other portions.' There is the outspoken voice of the
representatives of that great multitude that only a fortnight since I
saw passing through the streets of Glasgow. For three hours the
procession passed, with all the emblems and symbols of their various
trades, and the streets for two or three miles were enlivened by
banners, and the air was filled with the sounds of music from their
bands. Those men but spoke the same language that was heard in the West
Riding, in Manchester, in Birmingham, and in London; and you men of
Dublin, and of Ireland, you never made a mistake more grievous in your
lives than when you come to the conclusion that there are not millions
of men in Great Britain willing to do you full justice.
I am very sorry that my voice is not what it was, and when I think of
the work that is to be done sometimes I feel it is a pity we grow old so
fast. But years ago, when I have thought of the condition of Ireland, of
its sorrows and wrongs, of the discredit that its condition has brought
upon the English, the Irish, and the British name, I have thought, if I
could be in all other things the same, but by birth an Irishman, there
is not a town in this island I would not visit for the purpose of
discussing the great Irish question, and of rousing my countrymen to
some great and united action.
I do not believe in the necessity of wide-spread and perpetual misery. I
do not believe that we are placed on this island, and on this earth,
that one man may be great and wealthy, and revel in every profuse
indulgence, and five, six, nine, or ten men shall suffer the abject
misery which we see so commonly in the world. With your soil, your
climate, and your active and spirited race, I know not what you might
not do. There have been reasons to my mind why soil and climate, and the
labour of your population, have not produced general comfort and
competence for all.
The Address speaks of the friendly feeling and the sympathy which I have
had for Ireland during my political career. When I first went into the
House of Commons the most prominent figure in it was Daniel O'Connell. I
have sat by his side for hours in that House, and listened to
observations both amusing and instructive on what was passing under
discussion. I have seen him, too, more than once upon the platforms of
the Anti-Corn-law League. I recollect that on one occasion he sent to
Ireland expressly for a newspaper for me, which contained a report of a
speech which he made against the Corn-law when the Corn-law was passing
through Parliament in 1815, and we owe much to his exertions in
connection with that question, for almost the whole Liberal--I suppose
the whole Liberal--party of the Irish representatives in Parliament
supported the measure of free trade of which we were the prominent
advocates; and I know of nothing that was favourable to freedom, whether
in connection with Ireland or England, that O'Connell did not support
with all his great powers. Why is it, now, that there should be any kind
of schism between the Liberal people of Ireland and the Liberal people
of Great Britain? I do not ask you to join hands with supremacy and
oppression, whether in your island or ours. What I ask you is, to open
your heart of hearts, and join hands for a real and thorough working
union for freedom with the people of Great Britain.
Before I sit down, I must be allowed to advert to a point which has been
much commented upon--a sentence in my speech made the other night with
regard to the land. There are newspapers in Dublin which I need not
name, because I am quite sure you can find them out--which do not feel
any strong desire to judge fairly anything I may propose for the
pacification and redemption of the people of Ireland. It was this I
said: 'It is of the first importance that the people of Ireland, by some
process or other, should have the opportunity of being made the
possessors of their own soil.' You will know perfectly well that I am
not about to propose a copy of the villainous crimes of two hundred
years ago, to confiscate the lands of the proprietors, here or
elsewhere. I propose to introduce a system which would gradually, no
doubt rapidly and easily, without injuring anybody, make many thousands
who are now tenant-farmers, without lease and security, the owners of
their farms in this island. This is my plan, and I want to restate it
with a little further explanation, in order that these gentlemen to whom
I have referred may not repeat the very untrue, and I may say
dishonourable comments which they have made upon me.
There are many large estates in Ireland which belong to rich families in
England,--families not only of the highest rank, but of the highest
character,--because I will venture to say there are not to be found
amongst the English nobility families of more perfect honourableness and
worth than some of those to whom my plan would be offered; and,
therefore, I am not speaking against the aristocracy, against those
families, or against property, or against anybody, or against anything
that is good. I say, that if Parliament were to appoint a Commission,
and give it, say, at first up to the amount of five millions sterling,
the power to negotiate or treat with those great families in England who
have estates in Ireland, it is probable that some of those great estates
might be bought at a not very unreasonable price. I am of opinion that
this would be the cheapest money that the Imperial Parliament ever
expended, even though it became possessed of those estates at a price
considerably above the market price. But I propose it should be worked
in this way. I will take a case. I will assume that this Commission is
in possession of a considerable estate bought from some present owner of
it. I will take one farm, which I will assume to be worth
1,000_l_., for which the present tenant is paying a rent of
50_l_. a-year. He has no lease. He has no security. He makes almost
no improvement of any kind; and he is not quite sure whether, when he
has saved a little more money, he will not take his family off to the
United States. Now we will assume ourselves, if you like, to be that
Commission, and that we have before us the farmer who is the tenant on
that particular farm, for which he pays 50_l_. a year, without
lease or security, and which I assume to be worth 1,000_l_. The
Government, I believe, lends money to Irish landowners for drainage
purposes at about 3-1/2 per cent. per annum. Suppose the Government were
to say to this farmer, 'You would not have any objection to become
possessed of this farm?' 'No, not the slightest,' he might answer, 'but
how is that to be done?' In this way;--You may pay 50_l_. a-year,
that is, 5 per cent. on one thousand pounds; the Government can afford
to do these transactions for 3-1/2 per cent.; if you will pay
60_l_. a-year for a given number of years, which any of the
actuaries of the insurance offices or any good arithmetician may soon
calculate,--if you will pay 60_l_. for your rent, instead of
50_l_., it may be for perhaps twenty years,--at the end of that
time the farm will be yours, without any further payment.
I want you to understand how this is. If the farmer paid ten pounds a-
year more than he now pays, towards buying his farm, and if the
1,000_l_. the Government would pay for the farm would not cost the
Government more than 35_l_., the difference between 35_l_. and
60_l_. being 25_l_., would be the sum which that farmer, in
his rent, would be paying to the Commission, that is, to the Government,
for the redemption of his farm. Thus, at the end of a very few years,
the farmer would possess his own farm, having a perfect security in the
meantime. Nobody could turn him out if he paid his rent, and nobody
could rob him for any improvement he made on his land. The next morning
after he made that agreement, he would explain it to his wife and to his
big boy, who had perhaps been idling about for a long time, and there
would not be a stone on the land that would not be removed, not a weed
that he would not pull up, not a particle of manure that he would not
save; everything would be done with a zeal and an enthusiasm which he
had never known before; and by the time the few years had run on when
the farm should become his without any further purchase, he would have
turned a dilapidated, miserable little farm into a garden for himself
and family. Now, this statement may be commented on by some of the
newspapers. You will understand that I do not propose a forced purchase,
or any confiscation. I would undertake even to give--if I were the
Government--to every one of these landlords twenty per cent more for his
estate than it will fetch in the market in London or in Dublin, and I
say that to do this would produce a marvellous change in the sentiments
of the people, and in the condition of agriculture in Ireland.
But I saw in one of the papers a question to which I may give a reply.
It was said, How would you like to have a Commission come down into
Lancashire and insist on buying your factories? I can only say that if
they will give me 20 per cent, or 10 per cent, more than they are worth,
they shall have them to-morrow. But I do not propose that the Commission
should come here and insist on buying these estates. They say, further,
Why should a man in Ireland keep his estate, and not a man in England
who has an estate in Ireland? There is this difference. A man in
Ireland, if he has an estate of 10,000 acres, has in it probably his
ancestral home. He has ties to this which it would be monstrous to think
of severing in such a manner. But a man living in England, who is not an
Irishman, and who never comes over here except to receive his rents
(which, in fact, he generally receives through his bankers in London),
who has no particular tie to this country, and who comes over here
occasionally merely because he feels that, as a great proprietor in
Ireland, it would be scandalous never to show his face on his property
and amongst his tenants--to such a man there would be no hardship if he
should part with his land at a fair price.
I have been charged with saying severe things of the English
aristocracy. Now, this is not true in the sense in which it is imputed
to me. I have always said that there are many men in the English
aristocracy who would be noblemen in the sight of their fellow-men
although they had no titles and no coronets. There are men amongst them
of as undoubted patriotism as any man in this building, or in this
island, and there are men amongst them, who when they saw that a great
public object was to be gained for the benefit of their fellow-men,
would make as great sacrifices as any one of us would be willing to do.
I am of opinion therefore--I may be wrong, but I will not believe it
until it is proved--I am of opinion that if this question were discussed
in Parliament when next the Irish land question is discussed, and if
there was a general sentiment in the House of Commons that some measure
like this would be advantageous for Ireland,--and if it were so
expressed, it may be assumed that it would be accepted to a large extent
by the people of the United Kingdom,--then I think that a Commission so
appointed would find no difficulty whatever in discovering noblemen and
rich men in England, who are the possessors of great estates in Ireland,
who would be willing to negotiate for their transfer, and that
Commission, by the process I have indicated, might transfer them
gradually but speedily to the tenant-farmers of this country.
I am told that I have not been much in Ireland, and do not know much of
it. I recollect a man in England during the American war asking me a
question about America. When I gave him an answer which did not agree
with his opinion, he said, 'I think you have never been in America, have
you?' I said I had not; and he replied, 'Well, I have been there three
times, and I know something of them.' He was asking me whether I thought
the Yankees would pay when they borrowed money to carry on the war; and
I thought they would. But, as he had been there, he thought his opinion
was worth more than mine. I told him I knew several people who had lived
in England all their lives and yet knew very little about England. I am
told that if I were to live in Ireland, amongst the people I should have
a different opinion; that I should think the State Church of a small
minority was honest, in the face of the great Church of the majority;
that I should think it was not the fault of the landowners or of the law
in any degree, but the fault of the tenants, that everything went wrong
with regard to the land; and that I should find that it was the
Government that was mostly right, and the legislation right, and that it
was the people that were mostly wrong. There are certain questions with
regard to any country that you may settle in your own house, never
having seen that country even upon a map. This you may settle, that what
is just is just everywhere, and that men, from those of the highest
culture even to those of the most moderate capacity, whatever may be
their race, whatever their colour, have implanted in their hearts by
their Creator, wiser much than my critics, the knowledge and the love of
justice. I will tell you that, since the day when I sat beside
O'Connell--and at an earlier day--I have considered this question of
Ireland. In 1849, for several weeks in the autumn, and for several weeks
in the autumn of 1852, I came to Ireland expressly to examine this
question by consulting with all classes of the people in every part of
the island. I will undertake to say that I believe there is no man in
England who has more fully studied the evidence given before the
celebrated Devon Commission in regard to Ireland than I have. Therefore
I dare stand up before any Irishman or Englishman to discuss the Irish
question. I say that the plans, the theories, the policy, the
legislation of my opponents in this matter all have failed signally,
deplorably, disastrously, ignominiously, and, therefore, I say that I
have a right to come in and offer the people of Ireland, as I would
offer to the people of Great Britain and the Imperial Parliament, a wise
and just policy upon this question.
You know that I have attended great meetings in England within the last
two months, and in Scotland also. I think I am at liberty to tender to
you from those hundreds of thousands of men the hand of fellowship and
goodwill. I wish I might be permitted when I go back, as in fact I think
by this Address that I am permitted to say to them, that amidst the
factions by which Ireland has been torn, amidst the many errors that
have been committed, amidst the passions that have been excited, amidst
the hopes that have been blasted, and amidst the misery that has been
endured, there is still in this island, and amongst its people, a heart
that can sympathise with those who turn to them with a fixed resolution
to judge them fairly, and to do them justice.