THE PRESIDENT: The document book is not numbered or paged?
DR. THOMA: I believe the number is at the bottom, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Which book is it you are referring to?
DR. THOMA: My Document Book Number 2, Page 113. Document Book Alfred
Rosenberg, Page 113, Volume II. It is on Page 72 of the English
translation.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, then, what is your question?
DR. THOMA: I would like to point out that on Page 1 it states, “Before
the meeting of the Nordic Society in Lübeck, Quisling was in Berlin,
where he was received by Rosenberg.”
That was in June 1939, as is shown by the Document Number 007-PS. Then,
on the next page, it says that in August a course was given in
Berlin-Dahlem. It says further that in December of 1939 Quisling
reappeared in Berlin on his own initiative and made his reports—that
was on the 14th and 15th of December—and Rosenberg, in line with his
duty, transmitted to the Führer these reports which Quisling made to
him. He did nothing beyond that in this matter, however. Parallel to
this, and entirely independently of each other, the same reports were
received by Raeder.
[_Turning to the defendant._] Do you have anything to add to Document
Number 004-PS?
ROSENBERG: Yes. Please let me have the document. [_The document was
submitted to the defendant._] On Page 5 of this Document Number 004-PS,
it is stated that Hagelin, Quisling’s assistant who moved in Norwegian
governmental circles and who had received orders from the Norwegian
Government for the purchase of arms from Germany, after the Altmark
incident, for instance—that is the incident where a German vessel was
fired upon in Norwegian territorial waters—had heard Norwegian deputies
of the Storting say that Norway’s reserved attitude was clearly a
pre-arranged matter. Further, in the middle of Page 7:
“On 20 March on the occasion of his participation in
negotiations regarding German deliveries of anti-aircraft
artillery, he made a detailed report on the unceasing activity
of the Allies in Norway with the acquiescence of the Nygardsvold
Government. According to his report, the Allies were already
inspecting the Norwegian harbor towns for landing and transport
facilities. The French Commander, Kermarrec who had orders to
that effect”—incidentally I also remember this name spelled
Karramac, or something similar—“in a confidential conversation
with Colonel Sundlo, the Commander of Narvik, who was also a
follower of Quisling, had informed the Colonel about the
intention of the Allies to land mechanized troops at Stavanger,
Trondheim, and perhaps also at Kirkenes, and to occupy Sola
airport near Stavanger.”
A little further down it says, and I quote:
“In his report of 26 March he”—that is, Hagelin—“pointed out
once more that the speech of the Norwegian Foreign Minister
Koht, dealing with Norwegian neutrality and his protests, was
not taken seriously either in London by the English or in Norway
by the Norwegians, since it was well known that the Government
had no intention of taking a serious stand against England.”
DR. THOMA: That is what Quisling reported to you?
ROSENBERG: Yes, these were the reports which Quisling had instructed
Hagelin to make. I would like to add further that, some time after the
Führer had received Quisling he told me that he had instructed the OKW
to consider this case from the military viewpoint, and he asked me not
to talk about this subject to anybody else. In this connection, I would
like to point out also that—as can be seen from the report Document
Number 004-PS—the Führer had emphasized that he wanted the entire
Scandinavian North to maintain neutrality at all costs, and would change
his attitude only if the neutrality was threatened by other powers.
Later, an assistant of mine was ordered by the Führer to keep up
connections with Quisling at Oslo, and he received a certain sum from
the Foreign Office to support propaganda friendly to Germany to
counteract other propaganda. He also returned to Germany with reports
about the opinions of Quisling. Later I heard—and this was entirely
understandable—that this assistant, who was a soldier at that time, had
also received military intelligence reports which he disclosed after the
Norwegian operation.
DR. THOMA: Please be more brief, Mr. Rosenberg.
ROSENBERG: The Führer did not inform me of his final decision, or
whether he had actually decided to carry through the operation. I
learned of the entire operation of 9 November through the newspaper and
thereupon paid a visit to the Führer on that day. Several weeks later,
the Führer summoned me and said that he had been forced to make this
decision on the basis of concrete warnings which he had received, and
documents which have been found gave proof that these warnings had been
correct. He said it had been true to the letter that when the last
German ships arrived in the fjord of Trondheim, I believe, they had
already been engaged by the first of the approaching British vessels.
DR. THOMA: In this connection I have just one more question: Did Hitler
ever call on you to attend a foreign political or military conference in
your capacity as chief of the foreign policy office?
ROSENBERG: The Führer differentiated strictly between the official
foreign policy and the policy followed on account of an initiative or
suggestion which was urged upon me from outside. I believe all the
documents show that he never asked me to participate in any conference
concerning foreign policy or military preparations.
DR. THOMA: That is, you were never called upon to participate in the
operations against Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Russia, _et cetera_?
I believe, Mr. President, that this is a suitable time to adjourn.
[_The Tribunal adjourned until 16 April 1946 at 1000 hours._]
ONE HUNDRED AND NINTH DAY
Tuesday, 16 April 1946
_Morning Session_
DR. THOMA: Herr Rosenberg, you were the official appointed by the Führer
for the supervision of the entire intellectual and ideological training
of the NSDAP and all its affiliated organizations. Did you exert any
influence on national lawmaking in that capacity?
ROSENBERG: The Führer once spoke to me in this connection and explained
to me that in the leadership of a large movement and of a state three
factors had to be considered. There are, for instance, men who by their
natures feel they must deal with any rising problems fundamentally
through contemplation and then in lectures; then there is the
directorate—that is to say, he, himself—who must select that which
shows possibilities of realization; and finally, there are those people
who have the task of putting the selected problems into practice in the
social, political, and economic fields by dint of painstaking labor.
So it was that he originally conceived of my task, and he entrusted me
with the supervision of training with the intention of expecting me to
adopt a constructive attitude, by reason of my knowledge of the
movement. The executive and legislative powers were in the hands of the
respective ministries—that is, the Ministry for Education and the Reich
Propaganda Ministry—and the general representation of the Party was in
the hands of the Party Chancellery. The Party Chancellery occasionally
asked me to define my position with regard to this or that question but
was not obliged to consider my views.
DR. THOMA: Herr Rosenberg, did you have any influence on National
Socialist school policies?
ROSENBERG: I did not have any direct influence on school policies. The
school systems were an affair of the Reich Ministry for Education—the
actual internal organization of the schools is not to be confused with
the Party training—and the organization of the universities, the task
of the ministry concerned with this problem.
DR. THOMA: There were National Socialist educational institutions. Can
you tell me what kind of institutions these were and what your function
was in that connection?
ROSENBERG: The so-called National Socialist educational institutions
were special foundations under the leadership and direction of the
Ministry for Education and the Reichsführer SS Himmler, for the purpose
of training a distinct disciplined class; and the inspection of these
educational institutions was in the hands of a special SS leader
detailed to the Ministry for Education.
DR. THOMA: Herr Rosenberg, you are also accused of religious
persecution, especially as it finds expression in your _Myth of the 20th
Century_. Do you admit that occasionally you were a little too severe
toward the church?
ROSENBERG: Of course I will allow that as far as historically founded
creeds were concerned I pronounced severe personal judgment. I would
like to emphasize, in this connection, that in the introduction to my
book I described it as a work dealing with personal opinions; secondly,
that this book was not directed against the religious elements in the
public, as is shown in the quotation on Page 125 of the document book,