Senator COOPER. I know that.
Mr. MARTIN. To me.
Senator COOPER. Do the best you can. Take your time and tell us about
it.
Mr. MARTIN. I couldn't recall it verbatim, but she said he came in one
evening, early in the evening, and said that he had tried to shoot
Nixon but that he had not come into town that night as he was supposed
to have, or that day, but that he would be in the next day, and he
would take care of it then.
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator COOPER. I think you said that she did at least partly identify
the time by saying at the time they were living on Neely Street.
Mr. MARTIN. Neely Street.
Mr. DULLES. May I just add there our records indicate they were living
on Neely Street on March 2, between March 2, 1963, and April 24, 1963.
Senator COOPER. Did Mrs. Oswald tell you anything that he said about
the way or means he intended to kill him or at what place?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. Do you recall what weapon she mentioned at the time?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't know if I recall that she said shoot him or kill
him.
Representative FORD. Could she speak English well enough to
differentiate between shoot and kill?
Mr. MARTIN. At the time?
Representative FORD. Yes.
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Representative FORD. She could distinguish English that well?
Mr. REDLICH. Did she mention a pistol or rifle?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. Did she mention whether he was employed at the time or
unemployed at the time?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't believe so.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you ask her how it was possible for her to keep him in
a bathroom for one whole day?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. DULLES. Did you ask her why Lee Harvey Oswald wanted to kill Nixon,
any motive?
Mr. MARTIN. I think I asked, "Well, why would he want to do that?" And
she shrugged her shoulders.
Senator COOPER. I would like to follow up on that. In this conversation
with her, did he give any reason to Marina Oswald why he wanted to kill
Nixon?
Mr. MARTIN. Evidently not. She didn't answer. She didn't answer me when
I asked.
Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, you have said in your opinion the Nixon
incident was after the Walker incident.
Mr. MARTIN. Well, that is what she said.
Mr. REDLICH. Did she relate it to the General Walker incident in any
way when she discussed the Nixon incident with you?
Mr. MARTIN. She just said it was after General Walker.
Mr. REDLICH. Did she relate to you any conversation that she may have
had with Lee Harvey Oswald relating the Nixon incident to the Walker
incident?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. Did she refer to any promise that he may have made at the
time of the Walker incident that may have related to the Nixon incident?
Mr. MARTIN. No. I remember her saying after the Walker incident she
told him that if he ever did anything of that nature again that she
would report him to the police.
Mr. DULLES. How did you know the Nixon incident was after or supposed
to be after the Walker incident? Did she say that?
Mr. MARTIN. She said it was.
Mr. DULLES. She said that?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; I asked when it happened and she said after Walker.
Mr. REDLICH. When she told you that she had threatened Lee Oswald
with going to the police if there were another incident, did you ever
ask her why she had not done so in light of the Nixon incident which
subsequently followed?
Mr. MARTIN. I must not have because I think I would have remembered it
if I had.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you ever consider reporting the Nixon incident to any
Federal authorities?
Mr. MARTIN. If it didn't come out in the hearing, yes.
Mr. REDLICH. When Mrs. Oswald was preparing to come to Washington with
you for the hearings before this Commission, did you discuss the Nixon
incident with her?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't think so. I know I told her to be sure to tell the
truth to the Commission. She had mentioned that she had lied to the FBI.
Mr. REDLICH. With regard to what?
Mr. MARTIN. On a Mexico trip. She told the FBI she didn't know he had
gone there or that he was going.
Mr. REDLICH. To the best of your knowledge had she ever related the
Nixon incident to the FBI or Secret Service prior to her trip to
Washington?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't know. I was never in on any of the questions.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you give her any advice in connection with any of
those interviews?
Mr. MARTIN. No. I told her if she got tired to tell them so that they
could come back the next day.
Mr. REDLICH. You say when she was planning to come here you advised her
to tell the truth?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you give her similar advice in connection with the FBI
and Secret Service interviews?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't think the situation ever arose. She asked
specifically about the Mexico incident.
Mr. REDLICH. Throughout the many interviews with the FBI and Secret
Service you never asked her, I take it, whether she had discussed the
Nixon incident with the FBI or the Secret Service?
Mr. MARTIN. I think I may have asked her when she told me, if she had
told the FBI.
Mr. REDLICH. What did she say?
Mr. MARTIN. She said no.
Mr. REDLICH. What did you say?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't recall if I said anything.
Representative FORD. Mr. Redlich. I wonder if we couldn't have Mr.
Martin tell us the time of day and the circumstances that this
conversation with Marina in the presence of your wife arose, not
necessarily the date but the time of day, and the overall----
Mr. MARTIN. It was in the evening.
Representative FORD. You were sitting around the room?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, in the den.
Representative FORD. Just the three of you?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Representative FORD. Did she just start talking or did you prompt her
or just how did the situation arise?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't recall. I think maybe--I think it just came into
conversation as we were talking about the whole thing in general.
Mr. DULLES. Were you talking at that time about what her memoirs or any
writings she might----
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. DULLES. --she might produce would include?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Representative FORD. What was your wife's reaction to this story?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, she couldn't believe it either.
Representative FORD. Did she ask any questions about it such as the
ones you have indicated?
Mr. MARTIN. No, other than the ones I asked.
Mr. REDLICH. Could you tell us with whom you have discussed the Nixon
incident other than those that you have mentioned thus far, I believe
thus far you have said Mrs. Martin and Mr. Thorne.
Is there anyone else you have told this to?
Mr. MARTIN. Don Levine.
Mr. REDLICH. Who?
Mr. MARTIN. Levine.
Mr. REDLICH. Who is he?
Mr. MARTIN. A writer.
Mr. REDLICH. For what publication.
Mr. MARTIN. He is an author.
Mr. DULLES. Freelance writer and author, Isaac Don Levine for the
record.
Mr. REDLICH. When did you relate this incident to him?
Mr. MARTIN. Back in January.
Mr. REDLICH. Could you tell us why you told him?
Mr. MARTIN. He is of the opinion that there is more to this than meets
the eye, so to speak. He is----
Mr. DULLES. More to what?
Mr. MARTIN. More to the assassination.
Mr. DULLES. The Nixon story?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. DULLES. The whole assassination, Kennedy assassination?
Mr. MARTIN. And he--of course, he is quite familiar with Russian
affairs, and he said the stories just don't match, and he was trying
to tie in Oswald, I guess, with the Communist Party or some attachment
there some place, and I mentioned that I thought he was just a nut.
Mr. REDLICH. That who was.
Mr. MARTIN. Oswald. And I said, I told him I didn't know how true it
was but then I related the story, and he--I cautioned him not to pass
it around or anything like that, which he said he wouldn't.
Mr. REDLICH. Were you or Marina Oswald compensated in any way for the
release of this information to Mr. Levine?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. DULLES. Was Mr. Levine at this time trying to get the rights to the
story or the right to write the story?
Mr. MARTIN. He wants to write the story, and through Meredith Press.
Mr. REDLICH. Were you negotiating with Mr. Levine at the time
concerning the rights to Marina Oswald's story?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. And it was during the course of these negotiations that
you revealed to him the Nixon incident?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. And this, you say, was sometime in January?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you tell anyone else other than Mr. Levine?
Mr. MARTIN. Not that I recall unless it was Robert Oswald.
Mr. REDLICH. Will you try to refresh your recollection with regard to
Robert?
Mr. MARTIN. I beg your pardon?
Mr. REDLICH. Do you recall whether you had a conversation in
mid-January with Robert Oswald concerning the Nixon incident?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't remember. I was trying to remember that the other
day to find out if I had mentioned it to him. And----
Mr. REDLICH. Do you recall when Robert Oswald would come to visit your
house?
Mr. MARTIN. On Sundays.
Mr. REDLICH. And what would he do on these Sundays?
Mr. MARTIN. Usually take Marina and the baby to the cemetery.
Mr. REDLICH. Do you recall whether on one of those Sundays you had a
conversation with him concerning the Nixon incident?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't remember. I am not sure whether I did tell him or
not. It seems to me that I did, but I can't recall the incident at all.
Mr. REDLICH. Did Mrs. Oswald, Marina Oswald, ever indicate to you that
she had discussed the Nixon incident with anyone else?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. To be more specific, did she ever indicate to you whether
she had discussed the Nixon incident with Robert Oswald?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. With Mrs. Marguerite Oswald?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. With any Federal authority?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. Could you state again what your advice to her was with
regard to the revealing of this incident?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, I told her it would be advisable just not to say
anything about it.
Mr. REDLICH. To anyone?
Mr. MARTIN. That is right.
Mr. REDLICH. But you related the incident to Mr. Levine.
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. When you accompanied Mrs. Oswald to Washington for the
hearings before this Commission, did the Nixon incident come up at all
during your conversations?
Mr. MARTIN. Not that I recall.
Mr. REDLICH. This incident which you regarded of such importance at
the time you didn't discuss with her at all during the time she was
appearing before this Commission?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't remember mentioning it to her.
Mr. REDLICH. You didn't ask her whether she had told the Commissioners?
Mr. MARTIN. I think I asked John Thorne if she had mentioned it.
Mr. REDLICH. What did Mr. Thorne say?
Mr. MARTIN. He said no, not yet. And I dropped it at that.
Mr. REDLICH. You and Mr. Thorne didn't have any conversations
concerning whether she should mention it?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. At the conclusion of the testimony did you ask Mrs. Oswald
whether she had mentioned it?
Mr. MARTIN. Not to my knowledge, no.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you discuss with Mr. Thorne the question of whether
she had mentioned the Nixon incident before this Commission?
Mr. MARTIN. I think so.
Mr. REDLICH. What did Mr. Thorne say?
Mr. MARTIN. He said no.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you and Mr. Thorne discuss whether she should have
mentioned that incident before this Commission?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you think it was an important incident, Mr. Martin?
Mr. MARTIN. No. I don't know why--the credibility of it didn't sound
logical. It didn't seem to me that it actually happened.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you speak to any representative of the Houston Post or
the Associated Press with regard to this incident in the last several
days?
Mr. MARTIN. Yesterday morning.
Mr. REDLICH. Could you tell us the nature of that conversation?
Mr. MARTIN. He came out and asked me.
Mr. REDLICH. Who is "he"?
Mr. MARTIN. Let's see, his name is Creighton, I believe or the last
name began with a "C", he is with the Houston Post, reporter. He came
out and asked me what I knew about the Nixon incident and I said I know
nothing about it. He said well he had it on good authority that there
was a diary that Lee Harvey Oswald had written and it was mentioned in
the diary.
Now, I have never heard of a diary involved. There are some 60 pages of
manuscript that he is supposed to have written, but I have never heard
of a diary.
Then--which I told him.
He asked me if I knew of anyone that he could contact to find more
about it. And I said well, if anybody knows about it, it will be the
Commission, and I told him that I had just heard about it the day
before, and he asked if Marina knew anything about it, and I said I
don't know.
Mr. REDLICH. You didn't discuss with this reporter whether you believed
the incident to be true?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. REDLICH. At the time you first learned about the incident you
thought it was of sufficient importance that you called Mr. Thorne the
same day, isn't that right?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes. We discussed it back and forth and I don't--we
couldn't think of how it could happen.
Mr. LEECH. Could we go off the record?
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. DULLES. Read this brief report into the record.
Mr. REDLICH. I would like to read into the record a story which appears
in the Washington Post February 22, 1964--27, 1964, dated Houston,
Texas, February 26, Associated Press:
"The Houston Post quoted an associate of Lee Harvey Oswald's widow
tonight as saying Oswald planned to kill former Vice President Richard
M. Nixon. The Post quoted James Martin, until a few days ago Marina
Oswald's business representative, as saying that evidence to this
effect had been presented to the Warren Commission investigating the
assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Martin is scheduled to
testify before the Commissioners Thursday. Nixon was in Dallas the
day before President Kennedy was killed. Oswald was charged with the
slaying."
Mr. MARTIN. Now. I did not tell him--I told him exactly what I told
you, that I had no knowledge of it. I had secondhand knowledge only of
it. I said if anyone knew about it the Commission would know it.
Mr. REDLICH. Did you tell him that this evidence had been presented
before the Warren Commission?
Mr. MARTIN. No, I told him if anybody knew about it, you would know
about it.
Senator COOPER. I think you said a minute ago that you only learned
about it the day before?
Mr. MARTIN. That is what I told the newspaper reporter.
Senator COOPER. What is the significance of that? Did you talk to
somebody the day before?
Mr. MARTIN. No, it was just a method of brushing him off.
Senator COOPER. Had you talked to Robert Oswald the day before?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Senator COOPER. May I ask this: Now, Mrs. Marina Oswald told you about
the Nixon incident?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Senator COOPER. Had she previously told you about the Walker incident?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Senator COOPER. General Walker?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, after it came out in the newspapers. The first I heard
about it was when I read in the newspapers.
Senator COOPER. Then she talked to you about it?
Mr. MARTIN. I asked her about it.
Senator COOPER. You have read somewhere, have you, that Mrs. Marina
Oswald said that Lee Oswald gave her his reason for wanting to shoot at
General Walker?
Mr. MARTIN. The reason she gave me was that Lee Harvey Oswald thought
that General Walker was a Fascist.
Senator COOPER. Right.
Mr. MARTIN. And needed to be killed.
Senator COOPER. Did she tell you any statement that Lee Oswald made
giving his reasons that he wanted to kill or shoot Richard Nixon?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Senator COOPER. Didn't talk about that at all?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Senator COOPER. Did she ever tell you of any other statements that Lee
Oswald had made to her about his, any attempts that he made or any
intentions that he had to kill any other person?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Senator COOPER. You are sure of that?
Mr. MARTIN. Positive.
Senator COOPER. Did she tell you about any statements that Lee Oswald
might have made about President Kennedy?