Mr. RANKIN. How do you know that?
Mr. MARTIN. Because he told me they had. And then Robert thanked me and
said that it would work out all right.
Mr. RANKIN. Before you made that suggestion had you had any discussions
about selling any rights to Marina's stories or anything of that
character?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. With any media?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you happen to make this offer?
Mr. MARTIN. I felt sorry for her.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you limit the offer to Marina and her children?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Was there any talk at that time about Robert living at your
home, too?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Anything about Marguerite living there?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss this proposal with your wife before you
made it?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Could you describe for the Commission briefly your home,
how the layout of it was?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, it is a three-bedroom house, with a living room,
dining room, den and kitchen, two baths.
Mr. RANKIN. All of it on the same floor?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Could you give us an idea of where the bedrooms were from
the rest of the house?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, as you come in the front door you go through one end
of the living room, and then into a hallway, and the bedrooms are along
the hall.
Mr. RANKIN. And is yours and Mrs. Martin's bedroom at the end of the
hall?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Does it have a private bath associated with that suite?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And all of the rooms of the house are on one floor, is that
right?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And then where was Marina's bedroom from yours?
Mr. MARTIN. The next room.
Mr. RANKIN. And where was the bath that she used?
Mr. MARTIN. Right across the hall from it.
Mr. RANKIN. And then after Marina's room right next to hers?
Mr. MARTIN. Is a children's bedroom.
Mr. RANKIN. That was the closest one to the living room, is that right?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. About how large was your bedroom?
Mr. MARTIN. I think it is about 14 by, maybe 14 by 14, 16.
Mr. RANKIN. How large was Marina's room?
Mr. MARTIN. About 11 by 13.
Mr. RANKIN. And the children's room?
Mr. MARTIN. About the same size.
Mr. RANKIN. What children do you have?
Mr. MARTIN. I have a 14-year-old boy and a 12-year-old boy and a
6-year-old girl.
Mr. RANKIN. And they are all living at home?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And they have been throughout this period, have they?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Had you discussed the assassination with Marina at all
prior to the time she came to live with you?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Had you discussed any financial arrangements with her or
the idea that you should manage her affairs before she came to live
with you?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. When did the donations for Marina and her children start to
come in, do you recall the date?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it before she came to live with you?
Mr. MARTIN. Not to my knowledge, I didn't--I think it started after she
came into the house.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rankin, if you will excuse me now, gentlemen, I am
going to retire to my Court work and Mr. Dulles, will you conduct the
hearing? If you are still in session I will be here this afternoon to
see you, if not, gentlemen, I am very glad to have seen you, both of
you. Give Mr. Thorne my regards, please.
(At this point, the Chief Justice Warren left the hearing room.)
Mr. DULLES. Will you proceed, please.
Mr. RANKIN. When did the idea of your being Marina's business manager
first come up.
Mr. MARTIN. It was after the first of December. She had been there
about 3 or 4 days, I guess.
Mr. RANKIN. That is 1963?
Mr. MARTIN. 1963.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us how it came up?
Mr. MARTIN. One of the Secret Service agents suggested that I get an
attorney for Marina.
Mr. RANKIN. Who was that?
Mr. MARTIN. Lee Gopadze.
Mr. RANKIN. Where did this conversation occur?
Mr. MARTIN. In the den.
Mr. RANKIN. Who was there?
Mr. MARTIN. I think Marina was there.
Mr. RANKIN. Anyone else?
Mr. MARTIN. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. RANKIN. About what time of the day, do you recall?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Gopadze made this suggestion, he made it to you, did he?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say that in English?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you know whether Marina understood it?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, he had discussed it with her.
Mr. RANKIN. How do you know?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, he was talking about it to her about something in
Russian.
Mr. RANKIN. And then he turned to you, did he?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything about who you should get as a lawyer
for her?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you say about that?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, I told him I would be happy to get one for her.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you do that?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes. John Thorne.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you happen to select John Thorne?
Mr. MARTIN. I had known him from association at the Inn.
Mr. RANKIN. Had he ever acted as your attorney?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. What was the nature of your acquaintance with him?
Mr. MARTIN. Just a passing acquaintance.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss with Marina the qualifications of this
attorney?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything about it to Mr. Gopadze?
Mr. MARTIN. I, like I probably mentioned, John had handled some movie
work and he would probably know something about the area in which we
were talking.
Mr. RANKIN. After you had made the suggestion of Mr. Thorne as a lawyer
did you do anything about it?
Mr. MARTIN. I called Mr. Thorne.
Mr. RANKIN. On the telephone?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And then what happened?
Mr. MARTIN. He came over, I believe, the next day and talked to Marina
and Lee Gopadze and myself.
Mr. RANKIN. How did he talk to Marina?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, through Lee Gopadze.
Mr. RANKIN. As an interpreter?
Mr. MARTIN. As an interpreter.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Gopadze is fluent in both Russian and English?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Could you tell what Mr. Gopadze said to Marina?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss the nature of this retainer with Mr. Thorne
at that time?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't understand the question.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss what he would be doing if he was employed
as her lawyer?
Mr. MARTIN. Handling all her legal work.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell him that?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And did you say anything about what the legal work would
involve, the kind of work it would be?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't believe so at the time. I may have mentioned
something about her story or something like that. I don't recall the
conversation.
Mr. RANKIN. Was anything said about the donations at that time?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss what he would be paid by way of
compensation?
Mr. MARTIN. Not at that time. It was later.
Mr. RANKIN. Was anything said by you or Mr. Thorne about his
qualifications to act as her attorney?
Mr. MARTIN. Not that I recall.
Mr. RANKIN. Were formal arrangements made about the employment of Mr.
Thorne as counsel for Marina?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. When was that done?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe that was December 6.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall anything else that was said or done at this
conversation when Mr. Thorne came over and talked to Marina through the
interpreter and you were present?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Was there a formal contract executed between Marina and Mr.
Thorne at some time?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. You think that was December 6 to your recollection.
Mr. MARTIN. Either the 5th or the 6th.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, before that contract was executed did you discuss it
with Mr. Thorne?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Was Marina present when you did?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't believe so.
Mr. RANKIN. Where did this discussion occur?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe it was at the Inn.
Mr. RANKIN. Your office?
Mr. MARTIN. No, in the coffee shoppe.
Mr. RANKIN. Who else was present.
Mr. MARTIN. No one.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you then go over the terms of the contract with him?
Mr. MARTIN. No. I think I left that up to him.
Mr. RANKIN. Were you then the manager of Marina's affairs?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Who were you acting for in regard to that arrangement?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, acting for Marina although I had no--I had no
contract to that effect.
Mr. RANKIN. You were still acting under this suggestion by Mr. Gopadze
that some counsel be gotten for her?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And you did go over the terms of this contract at that
time, did you?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you make any suggestions for changes?
Mr. MARTIN. That we delete it, on my contract, we deleted any gifts or
contributions.
Mr. RANKIN. That is on the draft of the contract for you to act as
manager?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And when did that idea of your acting as manager come up?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, I believe it was the same day that John Thorne came
out to talk to Marina and to Gopadze.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know who brought it up?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you suggest that you act as manager?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't believe I suggested it. We were discussing the need
for a manager, and I don't know who brought it up as far as my being
the one.
Mr. RANKIN. At that time was there any discussion about what
compensation you would have?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. When you were talking to Mr. Thorne in the coffee shoppe
was there a discussion about how much compensation he would receive for
acting as attorney?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. What was said about that?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, just that it would be 10 percent.
Mr. RANKIN. Had you ever discussed that before with him?
Mr. MARTIN. Not that I recall.
(At this point, Senator Cooper entered the hearing room.)
Mr. DULLES. Senator, we welcome you.
Senator COOPER. Thank you.
Mr. DULLES. Would you proceed? Would you just resume for a moment where
we are in the proceedings?
Mr. RANKIN. We are discussing the contract between Mr. Martin and
Marina and also how Mr. Thorne became counsel under the contracts that
were made.
Senator COOPER. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. This 10-percent figure for John Thorne and the contract
with regard to his appointment then was his suggestion so far as you
know?
Mr. MARTIN. As far as I know. I think we had discussed it.
Mr. RANKIN. You had discussed it?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't know exactly how we came to these figures as far as
that is concerned.
Mr. RANKIN. But you think you had discussed it before the meeting at
the coffee shoppe that you described?
Mr. MARTIN. Probably so.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you suggest the amount?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. You don't recall whether you did or he did?
Mr. MARTIN. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you talk that over with Marina?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Who was present at that time?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe Lee Gopadze.
Mr. RANKIN. Anyone else?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, there were several times we discussed it with Marina.
One time Robert was there. He read the contracts. Let's see, he usually
came in on Sunday so he read the contracts more at length.
Mr. RANKIN. Did Robert come in before or after your conversation in the
coffee shoppe that you referred to?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe after.
Mr. RANKIN. After you had the conversation in the coffee shoppe with
Mr. Thorne, did you make any changes in the draft of the contract.
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. LEECH. Excuse me, what contract are you talking about?
Mr. RANKIN. Thorne contract.
Were you referring to the Thorne contract?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. What changes did you make at that time?
Mr. MARTIN. We deleted gifts, contributions. He used a standard
contractual form, and in that contractual form it includes gifts and
contributions, and we deleted those.
Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit No. 279 and ask you if that is a
photostat copy of the contract you have been referring to?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And it has stricken out the words that you have just
described with regard to donations and gifts?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. It does give him an interest in collections, trust funds
and bequests, according to the language of this Exhibit No. 279.
Do you know what was meant by that?
Mr. MARTIN. No. That was in the standard contract that this was drawn
from.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever discuss this contract, Exhibit No. 279, with
Marina Oswald?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, with Mr. Thorne and Robert Oswald present.
Mr. RANKIN. When was that?
Mr. MARTIN. Between the 1st and the 6th of December 1963. I can't
recall the dates.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember where you were when you had that discussion?
Mr. MARTIN. At the house, my home.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you say to Marina about it?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't recall any conversation at all.
Mr. RANKIN. Was anything said about the 10 percent at that time?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, she knew it was 10 percent.
Mr. RANKIN. How do you know she knew that?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, we explained it to her.
Mr. RANKIN. Who explained it?
Mr. MARTIN. I don't know whether I did or whether John Thorne did or
Robert.
Mr. RANKIN. Did she understand English enough to understand what you
were talking about?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. How do you know that?
Mr. MARTIN. Because of her reaction to it.
Mr. RANKIN. Did she react about the 10 percent?
Mr. MARTIN. No. I mean there was no reaction as far as her, a definite
reaction but I could tell she understood it.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us what you observed about her that caused you
to think that she understood it?
Mr. MARTIN. Well, I don't know. I think it was explained to her as 10
cents of a dollar.