Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, in reference to Mr. Nixon?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Now, you have alluded to Mr. Nixon in testifying with respect to your
conversation on the subject of illness with Marina.
Mr. Chief Justice, if I may, I will read the entry on that particular
date, and will wish to question the witness about it.
"Sunday, January 13, 1964. Jim advised that Marina told him that
Lee wanted to"--and there are a series of five dashes, followed by
the letters, "NMR, also, but Marina locked Lee in the bathroom all
day. This was confirmed later this day by Marina. On the way to the
cemetery."
Is that in your handwriting?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; it is.
Mr. JENNER. Would you please supply, if suppliable, what is indicated
by the three dashes preceding the letters "NMR" and identify what the
letters "NMR" refer to?
Mr. OSWALD. If I may, sir, correct you there. There are five dashes
there. And the word "shoot" was my intention to leave blank there. And
the initials "NMR" stands for Richard M. Nixon in reverse.
Mr. JENNER. I take it, then, that the five dashes were inserted there
as a substitute for the word "shoot"?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And the initials are those of Richard M. Nixon reversed?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, would you please state fully when this matter or this
incident first came to your attention where and through and by whom?
Mr. OSWALD. The first time I was aware of this incident was at Mr. Jim
H. Martin's home in Dallas, Tex.
Mr. JENNER. On what day?
Mr. OSWALD. On Sunday, January 13, 1964.
Mr. JENNER. What was the occasion for your being there?
Mr. OSWALD. To visit with Marina, and to take her to the cemetery.
Mr. JENNER. You entered the home?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was your wife, Mrs. Oswald, with you?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; she was.
Mr. JENNER. Your children?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; they were.
Mr. JENNER. You entered the home, and who was there?
Mr. OSWALD. Mr. and Mrs. James H. Martin, I believe their children were
also present, and in the living room of their home there was two Secret
Service agents, or one Secret Service agent, and two Dallas police
officers.
Mr. JENNER. Are you able to identify any of those four men?
Do you recall any of them at the moment?
Mr. OSWALD. I believe, sir, that one of the Secret Service agents, if
he was either the only one there, or two of them were there, the one
that I do recall, Mr. Bob Jameson or Jimson, of the Dallas office--the
U.S. Secret Service office in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. Now, to what Richard M. Nixon did the initials "NMR" as you
have placed them in this note refer?
Mr. OSWALD. To the past Vice President of the United States.
Mr. JENNER. Now, proceed to tell us about how the circumstance arose,
your first conversation of it, your first notice of it.
Mr. OSWALD. I was talking with Mr. Jim Martin about various other
matters.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, sir. Where were you in talking to Mr. Jim Martin?
Mr. OSWALD. I was in the den of his home, sitting on a sofa.
Mr. JENNER. And who was present?
Mr. OSWALD. Jim Martin and I were sitting on the sofa, and I believe my
wife and his wife were at the end of the den in the kitchen part of it,
standing by the sink.
Mr. JENNER. What is the distance between yourselves sitting on the sofa
and the others?
Mr. OSWALD. I would say approximately 12 or 15 feet, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And was there a doorway, was it open?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it is an open room.
Mr. JENNER. So you were all in the same room--one section of it you
describe as a den?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And the other section consists of what?
Mr. OSWALD. The kitchen, the sink, refrigerator, a washing machine,
built-in oven and range.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Proceed.
Mr. OSWALD. We discussed other matters. I do not recall what they were.
Just talking to him about how Marina was doing and so forth, and any
other thing that we might be talking about in general, small talk. And
we finally--he finally brought up this question.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say and how did he approach it? Reproduce it as
best you can, sir.
Mr. OSWALD. I believe he moved very close to me. I was turned towards
him. He was to my left. I might say at this time that the women at the
sink would be on my far right, behind me generally. And he related to
me----
Mr. JENNER. What did he say?
Mr. OSWALD. This incident, that Marina had told him that on a day still
not identified to me, that he, Lee Harvey Oswald, had the intention to
shoot Mr. Richard M. Nixon, and that Marina N. Oswald had locked Lee
in the bathroom for the entire day. And that was the text to my best
remembrance--that was everything that was said from him.
Mr. JENNER. Have you now exhausted your recollection?
Mr. OSWALD. Of Mr. Martin's conversation to me?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say how he had come about this information?
Mr. OSWALD. No, other than he had a conversation with Marina N. Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. And he was relating to you a conversation he had had with
her?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say that she had reported this to him?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. JENNER. Did you inquire of him as to why this had not been
disclosed to you before?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ask any questions of him in that connection?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
I might add that my reaction at that time was that I was rather
speechless. I believe I just shook my head in utter disbelief to what I
was hearing.
Mr. JENNER. Did Mr. Martin relate to you when Marina had told him this
story?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; not to my recollection.
Mr. JENNER. Did you question him with respect to that?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Did you make any effort to fix the time when the event in
question had taken place?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; in my own mind I did.
Mr. JENNER. You didn't question Mr. Martin about it, however?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. DULLES. At this time, did you know of the rumors with regard to the
attack on General Walker or not?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I did. And I refer, again, to the entry on
January 13, 1964, and the statement that Jim advised that Marina told
him that Lee wanted to "blank NMR, also." And by that "also" I was
aware of the attempt on General Walker's life.
Mr. JENNER. Was anything said during the course of your conversation
with Mr. Martin in the den with respect to the information you had that
an attempt had been made by your brother on the life of General Walker?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, not at this conversation, it was not.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever talk to Mr. Martin at any time subsequent to
this, with respect to this event?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir--preceding this day of January 13, 1964,
approximately 3 or 4 weeks prior to that----
Mr. JENNER. This particular event, I mean--Mr. Martin's relating to
you that Marina had advised him that your brother wanted to shoot
Richard M. Nixon, the Vice President of the United States. Did you
have a further conversation with Mr. Martin at any time subsequent to
that--that is, after January 13, 1964?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. You have not up to this moment?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I have not.
Mr. JENNER. You did not at any time later that day? You had only this
one conversation with Mr. Martin, and none other?
Mr. OSWALD. On this subject, yes, sir, that is correct.
Mr. JENNER. On this particular subject, you made no effort to question
him further about it?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you have now exhausted your recollection as to all of
your conversation on this occasion with Mr. Martin?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. JENNER. And you at no time ever pursued it further with him?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Did you report or relate this to the Secret Service or the
FBI or any other agency of the U.S. Government?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. McKENZIE. Pardon me just a minute, Mr. Jenner. May I ask a question?
You have, have you not, furnished the FBI a copy of this diary that you
have kept since November 22d?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. McKENZIE. And likewise you furnished it to this Commission?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. When was your diary furnished to the Commission for the
first time?
Mr. McKENZIE. Yesterday morning.
Mr. OSWALD. February 20, 1964.
Mr. JENNER. Yesterday morning when you and your counsel tendered it to
me?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. But between the 13th of January 1964 and yesterday morning,
when you tendered the diary to me, you made no tender of any written
materials nor did you relate orally to any agent or agency of the U.S.
Government this particular incident?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I had.
Mr. JENNER. You had?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Please state to whom and when?
Mr. OSWALD. This was two FBI agents on the night of--may I have a
calendar, please?
On February 18, 1964, I turned over my notebook to two FBI agents at my
home in Denton, Tex., at which time they asked me about this particular
incident. I referred them to my diary, and turned over the diary, with
the advice of my counsel.
Mr. JENNER. Was that incident related by you to them at your instance,
or did they come to you with specific reference to it?
Mr. OSWALD. They did have a specific reference to it on the night of
February 18, 1964.
Mr. JENNER. Who raised it--you or the agents?
Mr. OSWALD. The agents did, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did they state to you as to how they had come to have that
information?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; they did not.
Mr. McKENZIE. For the sake of the record, Mr. Jenner, I would like to
state what I told the agents.
Mr. JENNER. Now, returning to--when did you tell them, Mr. McKenzie?
Mr. McKENZIE. Mr. Jenner, the best I recall it was either Monday--it
was Monday, February 17th.
Mr. JENNER. Monday of this week?
Mr. McKENZIE. Yes, this past Monday.
And I might add that I received the diary myself sometime around 5:15
or 5 o'clock on Saturday, February 15th, and I read the diary Sunday
evening, February 16th, and gave the information to the FBI agents on
February 17th, at which time I suggested that if they would like to
talk to Robert about it they could be free to do so.
Mr. OSWALD. May I say something here, Bill?
Mr. McKenzie did not know the exact meaning of this statement on
January 13, 1964. He asked me in his office on Monday afternoon,
February 17, 1964, to fill in the blanks, and to give the man's name to
the initials and what it meant, at which time I did.
Mr. JENNER. But from the 13th of January 1964 to Saturday February 15,
1964, you had not drawn this matter to the attention of any agency
of the United States or any agent of the United States, or any other
person, is that correct?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; that is not correct. I did not speak to any agent
of the U.S. Government.
My wife read my diary, and she asked me what that entry was.
Mr. JENNER. When did you prepare this diary?
Mr. OSWALD. I prepared it on the dates noted in the diary. In this
particular instance, Sunday, January 13, 1964.
Mr. JENNER. That particular entry, I take it, then, from your
testimony, was made contemporaneously with the event itself--that is,
on January 13, 1964?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. This news from Mr. Martin startled and upset you, did it
not?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; it did.
Mr. JENNER. You mentioned that you had gone to the Martin home, one of
the purposes being to take Marina to the cemetery.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you do so?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. JENNER. As soon as you were in her presence in the automobile, or
while you were driving there, did you raise this subject with her?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. You made no mention of what Mr. Martin had said to you?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever speak to Marina about it?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; she raised the question to me, or told me of the
incident.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Was it on your way to the cemetery, while you were there, or returning
from the cemetery?
Mr. OSWALD. On the way to the cemetery, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Please try to reconstruct the circumstances, and state as
clearly as you can how she raised the subject with you, and what she
said--first stating, however, who was in the automobile as you were
driving to the cemetery.
Mr. OSWALD. It was Marina N. Oswald and myself, only.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Now, try to--give us the scene just as it occurred--how she brought it
out.
Mr. OSWALD. We had been talking about the children, her children and
my children, family affairs, and so forth, attempting to carry on a
reasonable facsimile of a complete conversation within her limited
knowledge of English. And at a pause in this conversation, she started
relating to me this incident.
Mr. JENNER. Please, Mr. Oswald--when you say she started relating this
incident, it doesn't help us any, it is not evidentiary. How did she do
it? What did she say, as best you are able to recall? How did she bring
it up?
Mr. McKENZIE. In her own words, Robert, try to reconstruct exactly what
was said to you from the time you left Jim Martin's house until you
went--in Dallas, Tex., until you arrived in Fort Worth, Tex., at the
cemetery.
Mr. OSWALD. On this subject, to the best of my knowledge, Marina said
to me, "Robert, Lee also wanted to shoot Mr. Nixon." And, at that time,
I believe I gave her the statement that "Yes, Jim told me about this
when we were sitting in the den that afternoon."
Mr. JENNER. You say you gave her the statement--you mean that is what
you said to her?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
And she made her statement, referring to this incident of Mr. Nixon.