Mr. RANKIN. That shows him in Marine uniform also, does it?
Mrs. OSWALD. In his Marine uniform showing his muscles to his mother.
And this is a picture, Exhibit 263 taken in Corregidor 1957 in the
wilderness.
Mr. RANKIN. He is still in the Marines there?
Mrs. OSWALD. Oh, yes, he is in fatigues, there. This is a picture taken
August 19, 264 taken in California coming home on leave from Japan.
Mr. RANKIN. 264 he is still in the Marines?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he is still in the Marines August 19. This is a
picture of Lee taken in Minsk, Russia June 1st, 1961, Minsk, USSR,
Exhibit 267.
There is a picture of Marguerite Oswald, the mother taken in New
Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. What is the number?
Mrs. OSWALD. 265.
Mr. RANKIN. Thank you. That is your own picture?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
This is a Mother's Day card sent to me from Santa Ana, California on
May 7, 1959 from Lee.
Mr. RANKIN. That is Exhibit 266?
Mrs. OSWALD. And this is Exhibit 268 which is a Christmas card I
had sent Lee on his first Christmas away from home--he joined in
October--that Lee had kept all these years in his sea bag, this was
found in his sea bag he left with me.
This is a book of Christmas carols Exhibit 269 that was also found in
Lee's sea bag.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, Exhibits 259 to 269 both inclusive, are those all of
the pictures that you were offering the Commission this morning?
Mrs. OSWALD. I have many more pictures, I would be happy to show you
but these are the pictures that your Mr. Jenner said he would like to
have for the Commission.
Mr. RANKIN. And that you were referring to when you offered them to the
Commission?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Thank you very much and we would like to return them to you
at this time.
The CHAIRMAN. We will return them to you, Mrs. Oswald.
Mr. RANKIN. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Well I think that will be all then. Thank you Mrs. Oswald
and if you become too tired with your testimony, we know it has been a
long and arduous task for you, but we appreciate your presence.
Now, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. DOYLE. Sorry for the interruption, sir. Mrs. Oswald, do you care
to make any comment to the Commission about the tape recording, the
transcript of the tape recording of Mrs. Marguerite Oswald furnished
to you by the Commission this morning? Do you care to make any comment
about that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Should I go all the way and make the comment?
Mr. DOYLE. You make any comment you desire on that paper. I ask you
whether or not you have any comment to make concerning that paper that
you sent, that you were given?
Mrs. OSWALD. I am concerned about one thing, Mr. Doyle, if I may just
step over there and ask you a question.
The CHAIRMAN. You may step out in the hall and talk to Mr. Doyle.
Mrs. OSWALD. Chief Justice Warren and Mr. Rankin, I have read this
and it has upset me very, very much, that is what I was upset about.
I have stated before in my testimony that at the end of the Six Flags
I insisted upon going home and getting my important papers and I was
ignored.
I wanted to testify. They put Robert on tape many a time and Marina
continuously and I didn't have an interview. I have stated this
previously, if you remember, and then finally a Mr. Howard put me on
tape for about 5 or 10 minutes only, sir, and I had started with the
defection because I was under the impression that we missed a bet
when we didn't find out how Lee got to Russia and as far as I know,
no reporter has been able to find out what ship he left on, and then
Robert left the bedroom because he had the news that we could not get
a minister, if you recall, and cried, and I said to Mr. Howard "Now
all that I have left me because I see my son crying bitterly." I have
stated these facts before, a very short interview.
This interview is supposed to have been by Mr. Howard, sir. The same
Mr. Mike Howard that I have previously identified before on many
occasions, and I swear before this Committee that now my life is
more in danger which I have said before, because I did not give this
testimony. This is the testimony that has been gathered by known facts
because I have been a public figure.
I have had three press conferences, I have written for magazines and
newspapers. I have not kept quiet, sir, as you know, so these things
have been accumulated. I was not questioned and answered, sir. I have
stated it before and I state it now. This is the same man who was sent
to me in Fort Worth, Tex. that I have complained that I did not get
protection, if you will recall. This is the very same man, sir. This
is the same man that I have told you that gave my daughter-in-law a
red-carpet treatment if you will recall along with the other one I
identified in the picture. This is the man I have been sitting here
complaining about. Here is my evidence. I am ready to have a heart
attack. I was sick, sir, when I read it because I realize now how my
life is in danger and I want to say this: Many people know about this,
many people, sir, Mr. Jack Langdon of the Morning Times, Mr. Blair
Justice of the Star Telegram and I immediately called Mr. Blair Justice
of the Star Telegram when this man knocked on my door last week to
protect me, and told Blair Justice that this was the man, there was an
article written in the Star Telegram, not printed but about pointed
every lie at the Six Flags I made it plain that the other one if he had
a gun would have shot me in my prior testimony, Mr. Rankin you remember
that, so I told Mr. Justice, I said "Justice I am scared to death. This
is the same man that I am suspicious of that they have now sent to
guard me," and as you know, sir, I was not protected.
I was not protected while in Fort Worth. I have testified to that, if
you will recall. This is the man, and I did not give this testimony,
sir.
I have repeatedly stated to newspapermen and to everybody publicly that
I have never been questioned. The only thing I could figure why I was
never questioned is because Lee was an agent, and I have stated that
fact. Why they left me alone, because I have never been questioned.
Mr. Tom Whalen who is an announcer for one of the television stations
in Fort Worth he kept calling Lee the assassin of President Kennedy,
and I called Mr. Whalen and I said to Mr. Whalen "You don't know that
Lee assassinated President Kennedy. I object to that."
I said "I can't tell you what to do, sir, but I would like you to say
the accused assassin because this is what he is" and he apologized and
we talked a little while and I said no sir, I told him I was not--I had
never been interviewed. He says "I can't believe that, Mrs. Oswald." I
said "Believe it or not I have never been interviewed," which I made a
statement upon arriving in Washington that I have never had a complete
tape recording or question and answer.
I went to the courthouse, and gave my information to the FBI men as I
stated previously, which took a few minutes.
I never did see those men after that. They weren't investigated and at
the Six Flags I repeatedly wanted to go home and get my papers and give
the documents that I have here, as I stated, and I was not questioned,
sir at Six Flags.
I was questioned for about 5 or 10 minutes and I stopped this way. All
of my thoughts have gone from me because I see my son crying. I have
previously stated that.
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, in light of your saying that you didn't give
this interview evidenced by this document, a copy of which we gave to
you which purports to have been recorded on November 25, 1963, by Mr.
Howard, I would like to have that identified by the reporter and then
give you another copy that you can compare, and I would like to ask you
just a few questions about it.
Mrs. OSWALD. Fine.
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, I hand you back the 28-page reported interview
that I just referred to that has just been marked Exhibit 270 and
ask you if that is the document that you were referring to in your
testimony?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir; this is the document I am referring to.
Mr. RANKIN. That you just said you did not give that interview?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is correct. And I will finish something, too, Mr.
Mark R. Lane called and I told Mr. Mark Lane about the Secret Service
man. He knows about this, many know about this, I have witnesses by
this.
Mr. RANKIN. What do you mean by this?
Mrs. OSWALD. About this man, Mr. Howard.
Mr. RANKIN. I see. But not that you said that you did not give this
interview.
Mrs. OSWALD. Pardon?
Mr. RANKIN. When you say this, you didn't mean that they know that you
did not give this interview?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. They knew that I didn't testify, I am sorry. But Mr.
Mark Lane called me the morning that I was to--the day I was supposed
to leave Fort Worth to come to Washington, sir, and I said to Mr. Mark
Lane, "I am not going in the car with Mr. Mike Howard." and there was
another Mr. Howard by the way who came there that day. I don't know
whether he was his brother or not, we will have to find out, sir, the
day I was going to leave for Washington, and I said, "Lane, I am scared
to death." He says "Don't worry. I will call Mr. Walden, who is the
Star Telegram reporter and ask him to accompany you." and Mr. Mark Lane
called Mr. Walden of the Star Telegram and asked him to accompany me
and Mr. Walden did accompany me with these two Secret Service men to
the airport and when Mr. Walden entered my home I told him I am so glad
you are here because I didn't want to go with this agent by myself.
And this is the same agent now--Chief Justice are you interested enough
for me to tell you a little more?
The CHAIRMAN. About this?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Tell what you wish about it.
Mrs. OSWALD. We are going to go back now a little bit and then you will
see the pattern. At the end of the Six Flags; I will make it as short
as possible and when everything was Mama and we were going to live
together and I told you they took her from me and I didn't see her,
then Marina's testimony started to change, sir. Marina's testimony was
not this testimony the first 3 days.
I have testified, and she has testified differently than me. I don't
know of all of her testimony but the first 3 days, this was not her
husband's rifle, at the police station and she admitted but it wasn't
her husband's rifle. She was going to live with her Mama and everything
was fine and then when I told you the way they did, then Marina turned
against her Mama, you no have work, and from that time Marina has been
changed to a different personality, let's admit it, sir, Marina has
been changing to a different personality.
Her statements, her way of life, she smokes, as I said today. I am not
saying it now, she stopped nursing her baby. This is a Russian girl,
I know she lived with me 1 month, how untouched of worldly things she
was, and I mentioned before there was a lot of rumors that I didn't
feel like I wanted to go into but that I couldn't overlook.
Sir, if you would know the rumors, then you would put two and two
together what I have been trying to say. This man, along with the other
one that I have identified, are definitely in this pattern, and Marina
Oswald, yes, Marina Oswald has changed completely.
She made a statement on television now she is happy that she has ever
been and people have written, her husband is only gone 2 months.
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, this Exhibit 270, you understand, is a
transcription, that is the writing out of what was on the tape, you
understand that?
Mrs. OSWALD. But I was never taped, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. We have asked, Mr. Chairman, that the tape be sent over so
that it can be heard, if you wish.
The CHAIRMAN. Now, you mean.
Mr. RANKIN. Yes. It is on its way over.
The CHAIRMAN. Oh, yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. I have stated previously, if I was taped it was during a
conversation going on that they taped me. I have never sat down and
been taped, sir. I don't think I am out of my mind, I wonder why.
The CHAIRMAN. May I see this.
Mrs. OSWALD. Mr. Max Phillips, who is a Secret Service agent brought a
dictaphone into my home, on Thomas Place, when I left Six Flags, and I
saw it connected and Mr. Jim Cox of the Star Telegram can prove that I
disconnected it. When I was telling Mr. Jim Cox my story about putting
my children into a Lutheran home and I thought it was a personal story
that had nothing to do with this particular case I disconnected the
tape recorder.
Mr. Max Phillips brought a tape recorder into my home and as you know I
do a lot of talking. And I never did sit down.
Mr. RANKIN. This was a tape recording at the Six Flags.
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. It purports to be. You understand that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I understand that thoroughly.
I would like to produce some other evidence that I have also to this
Commission. I have, as Mr. Doyle knows, a tape recorder with a few
recordings on it, and there are several, two, I believe. Mr. Sorrels'
recordings on that. I found it necessary, because my mail was being
opened, my mail, I have reported to the Postal Inspections, I have
stated in the beginning that all of my rights were taken away from me,
and, sir, believe me they were, and when I was a lone woman I would say
something I was supposed to be out of my mind and didn't know what I
was talking about I started to decide I needed some evidence too and
Mr. Sorrels kept pushing me off about seeing my daughter-in-law, I have
him on tape, and I have Mr. Thorne on tape about my mail being opened.
I have some other evidence.
Mr. RANKIN. Have you ever transcribed that?
Mrs. OSWALD. No sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Would you transcribe that and send us copies of it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir. That is a very long document. I was never
questioned and answered.
The CHAIRMAN. It would hardly seem possible, Mrs. Oswald, that unless
this is a complete fabrication that anyone could have given these
answers but you, it is--so many of these questions and answers are
exactly what you have told us.
Mrs. OSWALD. Exactly what I have told you, sir, I have been in the
news continuously, I have made the same statements over and over in
magazines and newspapers and press conferences, yes, sir, that is not
news to anybody.
And as a matter of fact, I was taped, oh, this might be a point, I
was taped at my first press conference which was at the Fort Worth
Press Club which I talked approximately 2 hours, and there was a tape
recorder there. I talked over 2 hours at that press conference.
Mr. RANKIN. This is question and answer?
For instance, and I am looking at page 18, there are different
questions and answers.
Mrs. OSWALD. That is a condensed version of my whole testimony, as I
say, because I have been in the public eye and I have all of these
things public.
These things have been made public.
Mr. RANKIN. This purports to be following the tape recording as to your
son Robert, you remember his giving a tape recording interview?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Robert gave a tape recording, I told you, and so did
Marina and I was not asked to be tape recorded.
I myself asked to give testimony and I did give about 5- or 10-minutes
testimony that I say again that I ended up with now all my thoughts are
gone, I see my son crying, a very short, and if I remember correctly,
I started with the defection. I do know because I said "Robert doesn't
know anything about my trip to Washington. He wasn't interested and
maybe he should listen to my testimony." And I got not far from it when
Robert cried and that ended that testimony.
The CHAIRMAN. Mrs. Oswald, while we are waiting, you may relax. We will
take a little recess, if you want to refresh yourself, you may step
out. That is perfectly all right.
Mrs. OSWALD. One thing, of course I am not supposed to tell you what
to do, I know and I don't mean to, Chief Justice, but since this man
was reassigned to guard me in Fort Worth I would like to know if he was
free or if he was taken off another assignment to come to Fort Worth to
guard me for this trip? Because it is the same man, understand?
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, I think in regard to that I had better state
on the record we had nothing to do, that is the Commission or myself,
about the selection of any of the personnel. We just asked the Secret
Service to handle it and so we don't at this time know what the answer
is to your question.
Mrs. OSWALD. Thank you.
(Short recess.)
The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Rankin, you may continue.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, we have this transcript at this time that we
are ready to play now and it starts out with Robert Oswald's testimony
or answers and questions like the transcription, written transcription
states at the head of it, and I think it might be helpful if we just
start with that and we can move on if you wish to with the other.
The CHAIRMAN. All right.
(Playing of tape recording.)
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, this is about 3 pages out of around between 13
and 14 of your son's transcription. Do you recognize your son's voice?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I have to listen really, it is a recorder, I am sure,
but I have to, you know, listen, that story is right. There are two
discrepancies so far as dates.
Mr. RANKIN. But you do recognize it? It sounds like him?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it sounds like him. It is the recorder.
Mr. RANKIN. Is it all right for us to pass down to yours at this time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, and I want the time on it.
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. That would be how many pages? About the 2 months he made
an error, it is June 13 and they were in my home with me by July 14.
(Transcription played.)
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, do you have any problem about that being your
voice on the tape?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, but I think probably the rest of it is my voice.
I had a news conference at the Fort Worth Press Club at Fort Worth,
Tex., that I was on tape for 2 hours.
Now, here is what--this is probably a little over 10 minutes to hear
"Pardon me, you will have to excuse me." And there was a lot of break
there. That is exactly 10 minutes. I have testified that at the
Inn of Six Flags I talked for about 10 minutes and then I stopped
because my son was crying, and I still say I testified for 10 minutes
approximately at the Inn of Six Flags.
I had a press conference at the Fort Worth Press Club, that can be
verified that I talked for over 2 hours that I was on tape. I was
sitting on a desk with many, many reporters because this was when it
just happened, and we had a lot of reporters, and in the back of me was
a man, and everything I said was on this tape, and it was over 2 hours
that I talked at this press club.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say the things that you say here?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. In answer to these questions?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, and all through here is my story, yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. At the press club?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir. I talked for 2 hours.
Mr. RANKIN. And you didn't say it to this agent?
Mrs. OSWALD. I said, and I am going to continue to say this, that I had
approximately 10 minutes interview at the Inn of Six Flags, and then
the telephone rang and Robert came out and started crying, and I said
I see my son crying so now all my thoughts have left me and I was not
interviewed any further at the Inn of Six Flags, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. On this tape you heard a little child talking, didn't you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, that is right.