But he is an expert. And he said that he himself could hardly do it.
And he practices all the time. That is his--that is what he does for a
living. He is an expert.
And we have many, many such letters. I have 1,500 letters, sir. Mr.
Doyle has seen my letters and read a few.
We have attorneys writing us. We have ministers. We have all types of
people that are not satisfied with this boy being charged with the
assassination of President Kennedy. And, of course, not satisfied
with the way he was shot down without trial. And we are going to
continue to investigate and fight this in our own way, when I leave the
Commission, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you have an agent for this tour, lecture tour you are
making?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir; I do not. Mr. Lane has--well, I don't say booked
me, because that would not be the word. But I am supposed to appear
Monday at Town Hall in New York--no, Tuesday, the 18th. It is going
to be a forum. There are three very prominent men going to be on the
panel. And we are going to ask questions and talk. We will have our
public support by bringing these matters before the public, because
we are convinced--and there are millions of other people convinced,
also--that this is not as plain as it seems to be, that there is more
to it. And they are not satisfied.
We are going to continue to investigate, with the help of the public.
The CHAIRMAN. Are you to be compensated for these lectures?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. My trip is being paid to New York. And I am to live in
a home with a family.
As far as that, I know nothing else about this.
The CHAIRMAN. Who does know the details of it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, now, Mr. Lane would know the details. And maybe you
think I am being a very foolish woman. But here. When I read--because I
have been very cautious so let's say now I am not being cautious. But
here is why. When I read Mr. Lane's brief--and I don't know, gentlemen,
if you have read it--but I believe it would be pertinent to this
Commission to get a copy. It is written in the Guardian--two or three
briefs. And I was convinced this man had some pertinent ideas about it.
And when I engaged Mr. Lane, he said, "Mrs. Oswald, I will tell you
about myself."
I said, "I do not want to hear. As far as I am concerned, you could be
a Communist. But to me a Communist is a human being. That is just his
way of life."
We are Americans. We have Japanese people. That is their way of life.
A Communist, as long as he is not hurting our Government, that is his
right to be a Communist. That is his way of life.
I did not want to know anything about Mr. Lane, because I knew Mr. Lane
wrote sensible things, that Mr. Lane was interested. And what he wrote
made sense. And that is all I am interested in, sir.
If Mr. Lane is getting money, and I am appearing, that is just fine. I
am not interested. If I can get before the public and through Mr. Lane
doing it, I want to get before that public and state my American way of
life and try to prove my son is innocent.
The main part of this is to try to prove Lee Harvey Oswald innocent.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr. RANKIN. You said during your testimony that an agent showed you a
picture at the Six Flags Inn. Do you remember that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, and I am glad you brought that up, because I have
notes on this, too. I have something important to say about that.
Mr. RANKIN. I will ask the reporter to mark this.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 237 for
identification.)
Mrs. OSWALD. Before I see a picture, see--if it was in a square, cupped
in a hand, I believe it would be better for me for identification. That
is the way I saw it. It was cupped in his hand.
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, all I have is Exhibit 237, in the shape it is
in. And I will hand it to you and ask you if you recall that as being
the picture that was shown to you.
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. This is not the picture shown me. The picture
that was shown me was a full face and just shoulders. This is not the
picture.
This picture was about this size, very glossy black and white, with a
big face and shoulders. I have background here, a lot of white. But
this took the whole picture--the face and shoulders. And this door was
just ajar. And this man had this picture--and the two corners were cut.
Mr. RANKIN. About what size is the picture you are looking at?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is about three by four--approximately three by four,
cupped in this man's hand, and the two corners were cut. The two top
corners. And a very glossy picture, black and white, with a big face
and shoulders. This is the picture shown me, sir.
Now, at Six Flags Inn, about 3 days later, when I entered the room,
on the table were a lot of newspapers. I walked into the room in the
presence of my son, and all of the agents. As I stated before, Marina
and I knew nothing of what went on. We did not know how Lee was shot or
anything, because we did not sit down and watch television.
Mr. RANKIN. What son are you talking about?
Mrs. OSWALD. Robert. So this is approximately the Wednesday, the
25th--no--Sunday was the 24th. About the 26th--it was a few days after
Lee was shot, a couple of days. So I walked into the room, and I picked
this paper up and turned it over, and I exclaimed, "This is the picture
of the man that the FBI agent showed me."
And one of the agents said, "Mrs. Oswald, that is the man that shot
your son."
Believe me, gentlemen, I didn't even ask his name. And nothing more was
said.
Now, that is very unusual.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, the picture that you are talking about that you picked
up, was a picture in the newspaper?
Mrs. OSWALD. In the newspaper. The bottom part of the newspaper. I
can see that like I can see the picture. I had never seen the picture
before.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you later learn whose picture that was?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, when I returned to my home in Fort Worth, Tex., about
a week later, Mr. Blair Justice, of the Star Telegram, brought me all
the papers, that was the next time I saw the pictures and knew it was
Mr. Ruby. And it was a bottom page, and it was this picture shown me.
Now, this is what I want to know.
Mr. RANKIN. Tell us who was there when you said that, about the picture
in the paper?
Mrs. OSWALD. Mr. Mike Howard, Mr. Garry Seals--well, all of the agents
there. The room was full. And Robert Oswald was there. The room was
full.
Mr. RANKIN. Was Marina there?
Mrs. OSWALD. Marina was in the bedroom. Marina and I stayed in the
bedroom with the children. We could get snatches of the television and
so on. The children had diarrhea and so on. We were busy.
As I picked the paper up and turned it over, it was on the back. This
picture I saw, the same picture.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether your son Lee Oswald knew Jack Ruby?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, I have no way of knowing that. I just hope that
he did, if I am right. If Lee is an agent, I hope he knew Jack Ruby.
Representative FORD. When you made that statement, after looking at the
newspaper, did you say it loudly enough for people in the room to hear
it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, because they answered me. They said, "That is
the picture of the man that shot your son."
But nothing has been said since that. That is the part that I question
all about this.
And then I am not asked to be subpenaed at Jack Ruby's trial or
anything.
The FBI says yes, they showed me a picture, but that wasn't a picture
of Jack Ruby, not even giving me a chance.
I don't understand. Something is not according to Hoyle. I keep telling
you gentlemen.
Now, I can identify this picture, I believe, out of a hundred pictures.
It was a black and white glossy picture of a big face and shoulders.
And why I express it--he had it cupped in his hand, and he poked his
arm and his hand with my bifocals, and all I could see was the picture
and the hand. I didn't even see Mr. Odum so much. That was that hand
poked in front of me. I am positive of this. Yet I am not asked any
more about the picture. They state, yes, they showed me a picture, but
not this picture. I am positive, gentlemen.
Mr. RANKIN. I will ask you about a list of names and see if you know
any of them, or if your son, Lee Oswald, knew any of them, to your
knowledge.
Mrs. OSWALD. I will be happy to answer.
Mr. RANKIN. Karen Bennett, do you know that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I have inquired about this Karen Bennett.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you know her?
Mrs. OSWALD. I do not know whether I knew her or not. I have asked
several people to investigate this for me.
Upon returning from the country on an OB case. I went to work for Royal
Clothiers, in Fort Worth, Tex., as an outside sales lady. In OB you
have to wait for the babies--and I needed to live. There was a young
lady there by the name of Carol, I called her. It could be Karen.
Looked very much like the young lady I saw on the television. That is
the first time I connected the two. Her father was one of the biggest
gangsters in Fort Worth, Tex. And he himself was killed by the gangland
of Fort Worth, Tex.
Why I know that--the manager of this Royal Clothiers had remarked
who Karen's father was, and I said to him, "I don't appreciate your
broadcasting that. I think what her father did has nothing to do with
the girl. She is working. Give her a chance to her own life."
I am always standing up and getting myself in trouble. I want you to
know that. Maybe I am not liked. But if that makes not being liked, I
will continue not being liked, sir.
So this is when I first started to work. However, I found out that the
young lady also had another job at night, which is all right. She was
working as a barmaid in a tavern on Hemphill Street, in Fort Worth,
Tex., and she had two small children, and so if she worked at the
Royal Clothiers during the day, it was necessary that she work at this
saloon, or whatever you want to call it at night.
Mr. RANKIN. Was she married?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, she was not married. That maybe is what she had to do
to support her children. And I understand, because I was left alone.
But--she and I became involved in this way. In the front of the store
was a showcase with cheap jewelry. This is a credit place, rings,
diamond rings, and bracelets. And Carol had the key to this case, and
so did I. And there was some talk about a ring or something missing. I
realized right then and there I could not put myself in a position of
things being stolen, because here was a girl who they said her father
was a gangster, and she was working in a bar. And my son was a known
defector. So I quit that job.
Now, on television for the Ruby trial here comes the girl. I thought
I recognized this girl. The name is Karen Bennett. And I called her
Carol, it could be Karen Bennett. I didn't have much to do with the
girl. So I immediately told this story to Mr. Jack Langueth of the New
York Times, and I told also to another Star Telegram reporter, Mr. John
McConnoch, because I wanted them to investigate.
But I have not heard anything about it.
Mr. RANKIN. How about Bruce Carlin?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. You don't know whether your son knew him?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. I would not know anybody that my son knew. That I
am positive--because he never did tell me any of this. But continue.
Mr. RANKIN. Robert Kermit Patterson, also known as Bobby Patterson?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Donald C. Stuart?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Charles Arndt?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. James A. Jackson?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, you know, a few of those names sound to me like they
might be on the back of both of these pictures. I am not sure.
Mr. RANKIN. They are supposed to be associates or friends or people
that Mr. Ruby knew and associated with closely.
Stanley or Katya Skotnicki?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Larry Crafard, or Crawford?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember that name?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. I was trying to connect the name with a couple.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether he ever spent any time in the Silver
Spur?
Mrs. OSWALD. If Lee ever did?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. I have had no knowledge of Lee for 1 year. None whatsoever.
Mr. RANKIN. And before that do you know whether he spent any time in
the Silver Spur in Dallas?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
And before that, as to what I do know, that Lee did not drink and Lee
did not smoke, and Lee wasn't the type--not that he did not maybe go
into saloons--but from what I know of him, he did not go into places
like that of his own. If he was working he might have gone into these
places.
Mr. RANKIN. These are the nightclubs Jack Ruby was associated with. You
recognize that?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't.
Mr. RANKIN. And the Vegas Club was another one. Do you know whether he
spent time there?
Mrs. OSWALD. I would have no way of knowing.
Mr. RANKIN. And the Sovereign Club?
Mrs. OSWALD. I have no way of knowing. I am going to say, again, Mr.
Lane would have ways of knowing about all these clubs and everything,
because that is his part of our investigation. I would like to get back
to Patrolman Tippit.
Mr. RANKIN. All right. I just want to try to cover this book about Lee
Oswald's marksmanship. That has been marked Exhibit 238.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 238, for
identification.)
Mr. RANKIN. It is a book that you brought here.
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was left in his sea bag, when he came home from
the Marine Corps.
Mr. RANKIN. And that reads, "U.S. Marine Corps Score Book, Oswald, L.
H."
Mrs. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. RANKIN. That is your son's?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is correct. That is his platoon, 2060, that is the
one he got the trophy with.
Mr. RANKIN. Were the various marks in that book in pencil that you see
there in the book when you first found it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, I have not touched the book.
Mr. RANKIN. Is it in the same condition?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is the same condition that it was in his sea bag.
Mr. RANKIN. We offer in evidence Exhibit 238, and ask leave to
substitute a copy.
The CHAIRMAN. It may be introduced.
(The document heretofore marked as Commission Exhibit No. 238 was
received in evidence.)
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Reporter, will you mark this 239?
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 239 for
identification and received in evidence.)
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald. I will ask you to glance through Exhibit 239
and state whether or not that appears to be photostatic copy of----