So then Robert joined the Marines in 1956--am I correct--that Robert
joined the Marines?
No, Robert joined the Marines in 1952. We are now in Fort Worth, Tex.,
until 1952.
So then I decided, since I was working, I did not want Lee to be alone.
Up until this time, sir, he had a brother. So I sold my home at 7400
Ewing Street, and went to New York City, not as a venture, but because
my older son, John Edward Pic, lived in New York, and had lived in New
York for years. He was in the Coast Guard, as a military man. He has
now been in the service 14 years, and at that time it would have been
approximately 8 or 9 years--I may be off because that is approximately.
So he was stationed in New York. So I had no problem of selling my home
and going there, thinking that John Edward would leave New York.
But the main thing was to be where I had family. And I moved to New
York for that reason.
Mr. RANKIN. About what date was that?
Mrs. OSWALD. This was exactly August 1952, because I wanted to get
there in time for Lee's schooling. And if I am not mistaken, Robert
joined the Marines in July of 1952. And that was my reason for going.
I immediately enrolled Lee in a Lutheran school, because Lee was not
confirmed--he was baptized in the Lutheran faith, but because of moving
around--I had married Mr. Ekdahl in this period and so on, Lee was not
confirmed.
I enrolled him in the Lutheran school which took him approximately an
hour or longer by subway to get there. It was quite a distance. That is
when we first arrived in New York.
I believe that Lee was in that school a very short time, 2 or 3 weeks,
because at this time I was living in my daughter-in-law's home and son.
And we were not welcome, sir. We were welcome for a few days. But then
we were to get a place of our own--because her mother lived with her,
and her mother had left to go visit a sister. So Lee and I could come
to visit. But we were not going to live with John and his wife.
So we just stayed there a short time.
Mr. RANKIN. Was there any time that you recall that there was a threat
of Lee Oswald against Mrs. Pic with a knife or anything like that?
Do you remember that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I do. I am glad you said that.
My daughter-in-law was very upset. The very first time we went there--I
stated before, and I am glad I said that--that we were not welcome. And
immediately it was asked what did we plan to do, as soon as we put our
foot in the house. And I had made it plain to John Edward that I was
going to have a place of my own, that we were just coming there to get
located.
My daughter-in-law resented the fact that her mother--this went on
before I got there--that her mother had to leave the house and go visit
a sister so I could come, John Edward's mother. I had never met my
daughter-in-law. She didn't like me, and she didn't like Lee.
So she--what is the word to say--not picked on the child, but she
showed her displeasure.
And she is a very--not, I would say so much an emotional person--but
this girl is a New Yorker who was brought up in this particular
neighborhood, which I believe is a poor section of New York.
The mother had lived in this home all her life. And this girl cursed
like a trooper. She is--you cannot express it, Mr. Rankin--but not of a
character of a high caliber.
At this particular time she had never been out of this neighborhood, or
out of New York. And Lee loved the little baby. And he played with the
baby and wanted to hold the baby and everything, which she objected.
We were not wanted, sir, from the very beginning. So there was,
I think now--it was not a kitchen knife--it was a little pocket
knife, a child's knife, that Lee had. So she hit Lee. So Lee had the
knife--now, I remember this distinctly, because I remember how awful I
thought Marjory was about this. Lee had the knife in his hand. He was
whittling, because John Edward whittled ships and taught Lee to whittle
ships. He puts them in the glass, you know. And he was whittling when
this incident occurred. And that is what it occurred about, because
there was scraps of the wood on the floor.
So when she attacked the child, he had the knife in hand. So she made
the statement to my son that we had to leave, that Lee tried to use a
knife on her.
Now, I say that is not true, gentlemen. You can be provoked into
something. And because of the fact that he was whittling, and had the
knife in his hand, they struggled.
He did not use the knife--he had an opportunity to use the knife.
But it wasn't a kitchen knife or a big knife. It was a little knife.
So I will explain it that way, sir.
So immediately then I started to look for a place.
I did find a place, I think, off the Concourse. I do not remember the
street.
Mr. RANKIN. Was that in the Bronx?
Mrs. OSWALD. Off the Concourse, in the Bronx. And it was a basement
apartment.
I had shipped some of my furniture. It was in a storehouse at this
time. So I got it out and put it in this basement.
Lee had his own single bed. It was a one--one great big, big room.
But we had the kitchen--regular New York type style--the kitchen and
the bedroom and everything together, but large enough--a big one-room
apartment. And there was a single bed that Lee slept on, and I slept on
the studio couch.
Then Lee went to school.
Mr. RANKIN. Was that Public School 117?
Mrs. OSWALD. I have that information here.
Went to school in the neighborhood, Public School 117, which is a
junior high school in the Bronx. It states here he attended 15 of 47
days. This is the place we were living that Lee was picked up by the
truant officer in the Bronx Zoo.
I was informed of this at work, and I had to appear before a board,
which I did.
Lee went back to school.
Then he was picked up again in the Bronx Zoo. And I had to appear
before a board committee again.
Then the third time that Lee was picked up, we were--I never did get a
subpena, but we were told that he had to appear at Children's Court.
But I never--how I got the notice to appear at Children's Court--I am
at a loss, sir.
But I did not contact at this time a lawyer or anything. I did not
know. I did not think it was anything serious, because the Texas laws
are not like the New York laws. In New York, if you are out of school
one day you go to Children's Court. In Texas the children stay out of
school for months at a time.
Lee had never done this. So I appeared with my son in court. There was
a judge asked me if I want to be represented by court counsel. And I
believe I said, yes, I believe I was represented by the court counsel
at this particular time. And within a few minutes time--because there
were hundreds of people sitting, waiting with their truant children,
and it was just like this--you didn't take the time we are taking here,
a half hour, to discuss the case. It was done immediately.
My child was taken from me in the courtroom.
Mr. RANKIN. Had he been out of school quite a bit?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. At this time, he had not been out of school quite
a bit.
So then I was given a slip of paper--no, I am sorry. I was told where
to go, where Lee was, which was another office.
They took Lee from me in the courtroom, two men, officers, presumably.
Then I went into another office and here was Lee. Lee was wearing his
brother's Marine ring, just an ornament ring. They gave me Lee's ring
and the things he had in his pocket, and told me that Lee was going to
be at this home, which I think the name was the Warwick Home for Boys.
And gave me a slip of paper and told me when I could visit Lee.
And that was all I knew at this particular time.
The child was immediately taken, and I was told to visit the child.
Now, I believe it was--this home was in Brooklyn. I may have the name
wrong. It was an old, old home in Brooklyn.
So I went to visit my son.
And I hope some day to rectify this, because I think conditions of this
kind in our United States of America are deplorable. And I want that to
go down in the record.
Mr. RANKIN. Did they tell you why he was taken to this home, your son?
Mrs. OSWALD. For truancy, yes, sir.
So I had to stand single file approximately a block and a half, sir,
with Puerto Ricans and Negroes and everything, and people of my class,
single file, until we got to the main part of this building, which had
a wire, a very heavy wire, partition wire, a man sitting back of the
desk, but a man in the front of the gate that let me in. I had packages
of gum and some candy for my son. And I sat down there. And the gum
wrappers were taken off the gum, and the candy wrappers were taken off.
And my pocketbook was emptied. Yes, sir, and I asked why. It was
because the children in this home were such criminals, dope fiends, and
had been in criminal offenses, that anybody entering this home had to
be searched in case the parents were bringing cigarettes or narcotics
or anything.
So that is why I was searched.
So I was escorted into a large room, where there were parents talking
with their children.
And Lee came out. He started to cry. He said, "Mother, I want to get
out of here. There are children in here who have killed people, and
smoke. I want to get out."
So then I realized--I had not realized until I went there what kind of
place we had my child in.
We don't have these kinds of places in Texas or New Orleans, sir.
Then I realized what a serious thing this was. And this is when I
decided I needed an attorney.
But Lee, I think, was approximately in that home--I am not sure--5 or 6
weeks, which accounts for his truancy that the papers say that Lee was
a truant, that he was out of school so long.
It is because he was in this home, sir. That accounts for a lot of the
truancy.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you talk to him about his truancy, say anything to him
about it, or ask him about it, how he happened to stay out of school?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, I asked Lee.
Well, this comes in another part.
Mr. RANKIN. All right.
Mrs. OSWALD. So I left my son that day, and I think I visited him a
couple of times after that. I am not quite sure.
But in the meantime, I engaged an attorney. I do not know the name of
the attorney, and I wish I did.
When I told the attorney about Lee--and I have stated this at a press
conference--he raised the roof, so as to say. He was indignant. I
cannot quote his exact words. But what he said was that New York State
picked up these boys and put them on a farm, and they pay these boys to
work on this farm for the State of New York.
Now, I may not be saying this exactly. You may have the picture of the
home.
But these boys work on the farm and are paid for it, I understand. That
is all I can remember, sir, about this unpleasant thing, because I did
not think it would ever come in my life, and after the time it happened
I tried to put it out of my mind.
But now I am refreshed a little on that.
So Lee was in this home 5 or 6 weeks, I believe. You probably have the
record.
So then we were asked to appear to court. I went into court with this
attorney. And there, again, real fast we were in the courtroom and Lee
was brought in, and Lee sat down by me. And I remember this distinctly,
because Lee had ear trouble quite often. And I saw his ear running, and
I said, "Lee, you are having an earache." And the judge heard me saying
something to Lee.