The President's Commission met at 10 a.m. on February 12, 1964, at 200
Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Representative Hale
Boggs and Representative Gerald R. Ford, members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Wesley J. Liebeler,
assistant counsel; and John F. Doyle, attorney for Mrs. Marguerite
Oswald.
The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order.
We will proceed to the hearing.
The CHAIRMAN. Mrs. Oswald, did you have anything you wanted to say to
us this morning before we start the questioning?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I meant to yesterday morning. I have two or three
things that are worrying me.
Mr. Rankin, on Monday, when I testified that I had not been questioned
officially, you told me that I had. And if I remember correctly, sir,
you said that there was 28 pages of testimony, or was it 8 pages?
Mr. RANKIN. Twenty-eight, I think.
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, Mr. Doyle, as my attorney--I am very concerned
about that, because I want to know--if it is my testimony--because the
little while--the testimony that I gave to the FBI when I entered the
courthouse was approximately about 10 minutes. They immediately left to
investigate. They did not talk to me again, sir.
And then the only other testimony that I gave on tape was the
starting of Lee's defection at the Six Flags Inn, which I would say
ran approximately 10 or 15 minutes. And that is the only time I have
testified.
Now, if you have all this other testimony from me, I don't think it is
fair, because I should know what I am supposed to have said. I need to
know what I am supposed to have said.
The CHAIRMAN. Mrs. Oswald, whatever we have that we are told you have
said, you and your attorney are entitled to see, and I will see that
you can. We won't delay the proceeding this morning. But you may see it
before you leave the building.
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes--it is very important to know that.
Thank you, Justice Warren.
The CHAIRMAN. All right.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, on that point, will it be satisfactory if we
furnish a clean photostatic copy to Mr. Doyle?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, that will be satisfactory. You may do that, yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. I certainly need to know what I am supposed to have said.
There is an FBI agent by the name of Mr. John Fain. I will ask you, Mr.
Rankin, if you have his address, or do you know about Mr. John Fain?
Mr. RANKIN. I know of Mr. John Fain as one of the agents that had some
interviews with your son.
Mrs. OSWALD. Now, Mr. John Fain is the agent that I called upon
myself after Lee's defection. I read where the Secret Service were
investigating the family background, and I mistook it for the FBI.
So I called the FBI and he came to my home. And he is the agent who
recommended me to talk to Jim Wright and Sam Rayburn as a friend, and
to write the letters.
Now, the one point I am going to bring out is this. When Lee returned
from Russia and was at Robert's home, Mr. Fain--in the meantime he
had come over to Robert and talked to him several times, and to me,
supposedly as a friend--he said he was not on the case. I do not know
this. But he came to Robert's home and said to Lee--my daughter-in-law
is a witness there--"Lee, I am not on the case, but I would like you
voluntarily to come to the office at your convenience and tell me
your story, because I am interested in your case. Your mother was the
one who contacted me. And I have been to see Robert. And I am quite
interested in a young boy going to Russia. And you must have a story."
So Lee voluntarily went with Mr. Fain to the FBI office.
Then when Lee returned, his remark was "Well, he didn't believe me. He
wanted me to take a lie detector test, which I refused."
Now, Mr. John Fain may have the story we are looking for, you
see--because Lee went and gave the story.
And I want to make sure you know where he is now.
I have information from Senator Mike Monroney that in March--I am ahead
of my story.
The FBI agents now in Fort Worth have told me they do not know Mr. John
Fain. I said I happen to know that is his name.
"Well, Mrs. Oswald, I worked in this office 9 years, and there has
never been such a person as Mr. John Fain."
So I have investigated. And Senator Mike Monroney gave this
information. He did work in the Fort Worth office from March 1949 to
October 1962, and then he retired in January 15, 1963. He is not a man
to retire as far as age, as far as I am concerned. I don't think Mr.
John Fain is that old.
The CHAIRMAN. We will check that out.
Mrs. OSWALD. I have his last address in Houston, if you don't have it.
All right. Fine.
Now, one thing about Lee being an agent I read.
The neighbors that were interviewed in Fort Worth, Tex., by the
FBI--this is from newspaper accounts--said that Lee always walked a few
feet in front of his wife when they went walking, and they wondered
about that, because it was very strange that he should walk ahead. I
am speculating maybe, but maybe there is a reason that Lee would walk
ahead to protect his wife.
That is my reasoning--as an agent.
The letter that is missing--and Mr. Doyle can verify this--the first
letter to Lee is missing, that Lee wrote to me, rather, from Russia.
And this letter stated--and it seemed to me, Mr. Rankin, I have seen it
in one of the magazines--as I have stated I have sold several of Lee's
letters. And maybe in the rush the letter got lost or stolen, I don't
know.
But his first letter, he told me not to send him any money.
"I repeat, do not send any money as it is not necessary for you to pay
me back. You could send reading matter. I am lonesome to read. Also,
send a can of Rise Shaving Cream, a Gillette Razor," and there was a
book he wanted to read, I believe it was 1984.
Mr. RANKIN. What date was this you sent that?
Mrs. OSWALD. This is a letter Lee sent to me that is missing--the first
letter that Lee sent to me. And why I sent the money--because I had
used his income tax return, which was $33, because Lee was lost--and
I was destitute, and I knew Lee would never prosecute his mother for
using his money, because Lee would help me.
Mr. RANKIN. You mean that was a refund.
Mrs. OSWALD. A refund. And I got the refund and used it, sir. And I
also used Lee's first check that came from the Marines. And I had no
way of knowing where Lee was. And I used it. And so I offered to pay
Lee back. And this letter has been printed. I have seen it. But I do
not have it. So that is very important.
Mr. DOYLE. As you had mentioned, you and I went through the papers that
you had brought with you from your home in Texas to Washington, and we
did not find such a letter among those papers.
Mrs. OSWALD. That is right. I have those letters laminated, and I
didn't give a list, and if it was taken I don't know what became of the
letter.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Liebeler said he had seen references to the letter.
Mrs. OSWALD. References. And I am sure it was probably one of the
letters I had sold, as I told you.
Yes, sir, you are correct there.
Now, there is another thing that we have skipped.
While in Dallas 2 weeks ago I had a press conference, and I called
Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall Inc., 522 Browder, in Dallas.
Now, this is a printing shop, where Lee worked.
Now, this is another thing.
Mr. RANKIN. That was the photoengraving place that you talked about,
wasn't it, in your testimony?
Mrs. OSWALD. Photoengraving place. I talked to Mr. Stovall. Now, Lee
was employed there, he informs me, from October 12th to April 6th, and
I asked him about the young couple coming to the house, if he was the
father of the girl, or if he knew of a couple who had a Russian--the
girl had a Russian father, the grandfather, as I testified.
Mr. RANKIN. What did he say about that?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, he said, no. And he didn't know about that. He
said--this is the part--that Lee had worked at a place prior to his
place. That is not so, and I can prove it. I was on an OB case for
Mrs. Rosenthal. We will have to get a 1962 calendar. October 12th, or
thereabouts, is when I was released from this OB case. And this was the
Sunday that I asked to get off an hour or two, and went to Lee's house,
and saw this couple.
Mr. RANKIN. October 12th was a Friday.
Mrs. OSWALD. Was a Friday. All right.
Now, so, let's see where I am.
This woman would not give me the information, of her last check to me.
I tried and tried, and told her how important it was. It was a Friday.
So then it would have to be, then, Mr. Rankin, the week before--the
Sunday of the week before then.
Mr. RANKIN. That would be October 7, 1962.
Mrs. OSWALD. I am still going to try to investigate this thoroughly,
because it is very important.
He claimed that Lee worked another place first.