For 2 or 3 days Lee and I bickered back and forth about me falsifying
his age.
So I have a very good friend, Mr. Clem Sehrt, who is an attorney in
New Orleans, La. I called him and told him I had a personal problem. I
had not seen Mr. Sehrt since early childhood. I knew the family. That
Lee was not of age and he wanted to join the Marines. And he quit the
school and told them we were going out of town.
He said, "Marguerite, I cannot advise you. It would be unethical. But a
lot of boys join the service at age 16."
So he could not advise me.
My sister, Mrs. Charles Murret, 757 French Street, knows of the
complete story. And so does my brother-in-law, Mr. Charles Murret, who
also said, "Let him join, let him go. If he wants to go so badly, let
him join the Marines."
I, at that time, was living at 126 Exchange Place, which is the Vieux
Carre section of the French Quarter of New Orleans.
And, by the way, the papers said we lived over a saloon at that
particular address.
Gentlemen, if you have this information, that is just the French part
of town. It looks like the devil. Of course I didn't have a fabulous
apartment. But very wealthy people and very fine citizens live in that
part of town, and there are hotels and saloons, and courtyards where
the homes are.
So I was very upset.
There was a colonel on the street that I stopped--I didn't know him--I
said, "Sir, I would like to talk with you." I told him about the
boy wanting to join the Marines and I didn't know what to do. I was
frantic. And he was insistent that I let him join the Marines at age 16.
So he advised me, "Well, if he doesn't want to go to school, let him
join the Marines. It is done all the time."
Now, I was not too happy about this situation.
Now, a recruiting officer from the Marine Reserve in New Orleans, La.,
was in my home the next day when I arrived from work, with Lee, in
uniform, in the home when I got into the home. He introduced me to him
and he said, "Mrs. Oswald"--he didn't tell me what to do. He was very
vague about the thing.
I said, "No, Lee is too young, age 16, to join the Marines. They are
liable to send him overseas."
He said, "There is less delinquency in Japan and those places than we
have here."
He saw nothing wrong with it.
What he was doing was telling me to falsify his birth certificate, but
not in plain words. He was telling me it would be all right for the boy
to join the Marines. He came to my home personally.
So I went to an attorney with Lee, because--here is the thing.
Lee's birth record is in New Orleans. And I knew that the Marine Corps
could easily check on this child, age 16--his birth record. So in order
to have a happy situation, so I could work, and to see Lee, I went to
an attorney and paid $5 and said that I lost Lee's birth certificate,
and kind of motioned to the attorney. I knew it would not stand up.
I bought Lee a duffle bag and everything, and Lee went--we told him
goodby, and Lee was going to join the Marines.
I had to accept that, gentlemen. There was no other way I could do, but
accept the fact to let him go.
Mr. RANKIN. Who was that attorney?
Mrs. OSWALD. Mr. Clem Sehrt.
Mr. BOGGS. What did Mr. Sehrt allegedly tell you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Pardon?
Mr. BOGGS. What did Mr. Sehrt tell you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Mr. Sehrt is a family friend.
Mr. BOGGS. I know Mr. Sehrt very well.
Mrs. OSWALD. He said according to attorney ethics that he would not be
able to advise me. Before you came in, sir, I had stated that.
Now, when I get interrupted, I lose--this is a big thing for me. I am
not making excuses. But, gentlemen, it is awfully hard to do this.
So Lee came home. And he said the captain said that he was too young.
Now, I don't question much. I don't know whether Lee changed his mind,
or they sent Lee home. I do not know. I do not question that.
All right.
Lee, at age 16, read Robert's Marine manual back and forth. He knew it
by heart. Robert had just gotten out of the Marines, and his manual was
home. And Lee started to read communistic material along with that.
Mr. RANKIN. What communistic material did he read?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was a small book that he had gotten out of the library.
And I knew he was reading it, Mr. Rankin.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it in Marxism, or what was it about?
Mrs. OSWALD. No--if you are saying the title is Marxism--no, sir, the
title was not.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it about communism?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was more about communism. I knew he was reading it.
But if we have this material in the public libraries, then certainly
it is all right for us to read. And I think we should know about these
things, and all of our scholars and educators and high school boys read
subversive material, which we call subversive material. So I, as a
mother, would not take the book away from him. That is fine. Lee is a
reader. I have said from early childhood he liked histories and maps.
So that is fine.
What I am saying now--we are getting to this agent part.
He is with this recruiting officer and he is studying the Marine
manual--he knew it back and forth. In fact, he would take the book and
have me question some of the things. And he was reading communism.
Lee lived for the time that he would become 17 years old to join the
Marines--that whole year.
Mr. RANKIN. What did he do during that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Pardon?
Mr. RANKIN. What did he do during that year?
Mrs. OSWALD. What did he do during that year? He was working for--as a
messenger for Tujaque and Son.
Mr. RANKIN. He had quite a few jobs, did he not?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I can explain that to you.
His first job was Tujaque and Son, who was steamship people, and he was
a messenger. And then he had a lot of friends.
Now, they say Lee didn't have friends. There were boys of his
age--while he was working he had an opportunity to make friends, coming
to my home. And one of the young men knew of a better paying job, where
they had coffee breaks and everything, so Lee took that job, which was
with a dental laboratory--if you have that information, sir.
And I think that is the only two jobs--no, Lee worked after school
for Dolly Shoe Co. I was working there, in charge of the hosiery
department, and Lee worked on Friday afternoon and Saturday as a shoe
salesman.
That was his first job--while he went to school he worked there.
And then when he left school, as I told you, at age 16--the first job
was Tujaque and Company, steamship, and then the dental laboratory.
And that is the only jobs he had in New Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. Were there not times he didn't have any job during that
year?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir--because when we left New Orleans, Lee left this
dental laboratory job--that is correct.
So I moved back to Fort Worth, Tex., because Robert did not want to
live in New Orleans. Robert was raised in Texas, and has his girl
friends and all his friends in Texas. So when Robert got out of the
Marines, he wanted to live in Texas. So I know that Lee wants to join
the Marines at age 17, so in the month of July 1956--and, gentlemen,
I have always been broke, and I mean broke. About a week before rent
time, we had it pretty hard in order to have that rent. Yet I take my
furniture and ship it to New Orleans so Lee could be with his brother
and we could be with the family--thinking maybe with Robert he would
not join the Marines at age 17 and finish his schooling.
When Lee became age 17, October 18th, he joined the Marines.
The reason why he didn't go into the Marines until October 24th was
the recruiting officer at the Marines could not understand his birth
certificate, because his father had died 2 months before. So I had to
send for an affidavit, even though I had the death notice from the
paper and everything, and they could have--they could not understand
that about that two months. I had to send to New Orleans for an
affidavit of his father's death.
And so then Lee joined the Marines on October 24th.
From the 18th to the 24th every day Lee was leaving. We even laughed
about it. Because he would leave in the morning and come home in the
evening. And it was because he was born 2 months before his father--so
he did join the Marines at age 18.
Now--that, Mr. Dulles, is the part you wanted to know. But, before,
that has something to do with it. Lee----
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Dulles wanted to know what you based this idea that he
was an agent on?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is one part. That is the beginning of it, Mr. Dulles.
I have much more. That is the beginning of it, sir.
Mr. DULLES. Did he join at 18 or 17?
Mrs. OSWALD. He joined at age 17. I signed the paper. You will please
forgive me when I make mistakes, and if you will correct me.
Now, at age 15-1/2 Lee was a member of the Civil Air Patrol.
Do you have that information, gentlemen?