I have to think of all these things, who might be involved in this.

The Secret Service men, surely you will admit, did not guard our

President properly.

Now, that was also stated in the newspaper by, I think it is, Secret

Service Judge Baughman--am I saying that right? He is the one that--how

Lee got out of the building, and why the President--there are many,

many people that wonder. So I, too, am wondering.

So I say that President Kennedy was improperly guarded. And I am not

the only one that says that, sir. So I have to consider that. I have to

consider the way I, myself, was treated at Six Flags for the three days.

When I came here today--I have these notes, something very important

about that particular incident at Six Flags, to back up my story with a

witness. You don't have to take my word for it.

Mr. RANKIN. What else is there now in regard to Marina that caused you

to think she conspired to kill President Kennedy?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes--because everything is laid out in Mrs. Paine's home

and Marina's home. The gun was in the garage.

Mr. RANKIN. Well, that doesn't make Marina do it, does it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, but Marina told the police that the gun was there

the night before. She saw the gun in the garage the night before. She

didn't see Lee take it that morning. But she made a statement that she

saw the gun the night before.

The pictures of Lee with the rifle came from that home. If Lee is going

to assassinate the President or anybody else, is he going to have

photographs laying all around with the gun? No, sir.

And there is too much evidence pointing to the assassination and my son

being the guilty one in this particular house.

All through the testimony, sir, everything has come from this

particular house. And so I am a thinking person, I have to think.

Mr. RANKIN. Why does that show that Marina had anything to do with the

conspiracy?

Mrs. OSWALD. Well, we are speculating, let's say. Marina is not happy.

Lee can't give her any money and things. And she has made friends with

these Russian folks that have cars and homes. And they are not happy

because this Russian girl doesn't have anything. They are not happy

about that.

And I am trying to show the disposition of the girl.

I love my daughter-in-law even now. Believe me, it is a sore spot to

have to say this. But I have to face these facts of what I know.

Mr. RANKIN. You realize it is a very serious charge.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir. And it is also a serious charge that my son is

the assassin of President Kennedy.

You see, we have two sides here. It is a very serious charge, because

no one saw him shoot the President. And yet this is an international

affair. And the conclusion has come to the conclusion that Lee Harvey

Oswald has shot President Kennedy, and he alone. Lee Harvey Oswald, or

Mr. J. Lee Rankin, or anyone in this room could not have been in that

many places in 29 minutes time. It is utterly impossible.

And this has been gone over by hundreds of people. There are

investigations. I have 1,500 letters, sir--not just letters of

sympathy--people that are investigating this. And I don't read all

thoroughly, and I am a layman. But he step by step has been taken, from

what the reports said--that he was on the sixth floor, and then they

saw him in the cafeteria drinking a Coca Cola, and the President came.

Then he had to leave the building. He had so many blocks to walk before

he caught a bus. He had to board the bus, he had to pay his fare, he

had to get out of the bus, then he walked a few blocks, then he caught

a taxicab, paid the taxi man, then he walked a few blocks, went to his

home and got a coat. Then he walked a few more blocks and shot the

policeman. Then he walked a few more blocks and he was in the theater.

In 29 minutes time it cannot be done.

So I am convinced my son, and my son alone, if he is involved--I am a

human being, and I say my son could have shot the President, and he

could have been involved. I am not the type mother to think that he is

perfect and he could not do it. But I say he did not do it alone--if he

did it. Because it is utterly impossible.

And I do not believe my son did it.

I think my son was framed because, gentlemen--would his rifle be in the

sixth floor window of the depository--unless you want to say my son was

completely out of his mind. And yet there has been no statement to that

effect. Wade has publicly said on the television when it happened that

he is sane, he is well reasoned, he knows what he did. And Lee never

did break, with his black eyes. He kept saying he was innocent. And yet

in 12 hours time he was proven guilty. That doesn't make sense to me,

an ordinary layman. So I have to consider who is involved.

Now, I am telling you that this girl was not happy with her situation.

She had turned against me twice.

You, yourself, yesterday said that she testified that I told her to

tear up the picture. God give me the grace--I did no such thing. My

testimony is true.

So now she has lied there, I have found out.

And every evidence of any importance has come from this house. I have

to face that.

Mr. RANKIN. What else do you have that shows that she had any part in

the conspiracy to assassinate the President?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I am under the impression that probably she--I

think Lee is an agent. I have always thought that, and I have as much

circumstantial evidence that Lee is an agent, that the Dallas police

has that he is a murderer, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. What do you base that on?

Mrs. OSWALD. Well. I am going to tell my story. I have it all there.

That is what I base it on.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us in summary?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, I don't think I want to tell it to you that way,

because I cannot, almost.

Mr. RANKIN. That is a very serious charge, that he was an agent, too.

Mrs. OSWALD. Well, fine. So all right.

If I feel that way, sir, don't I have the right, the American way, to

speak up and to tell you what I feel? Isn't that my privilege?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes. But can't you tell us what you base it on?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, I will, as I go along, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. Is that the only way you can tell it?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't see how I can say to you I know he is an agent,

and I have papers. I want to tell the whole story. I still have more

papers. I have documents that I know you do not have, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. Have you told us all that you know that would bear on your

claim that Marina Oswald was----

Mrs. OSWALD. Had a part in it.

Mr. RANKIN. Had a part in it or conspired to assassinate the President?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir--I cannot prove it. And I cannot prove Lee is an

agent. I cannot prove these things.

But I have facts that may lead up to them. I cannot prove it, because

if I did we would not be having this Commission, sir. I could say who

shot President Kennedy.

Mr. RANKIN. So in both cases of the agent--Lee being an agent, your

son, and Marina Oswald and the Secret Service agents or anybody else

conspiring with him for the assassination of President Kennedy, that is

just suspicions. You cannot prove it--is that right?

Mrs. OSWALD. I would not use the word suspicion, because I am not the

type person to be suspicious and imagine things.

You may think so, because I am a woman. And this is my son. But my

children were never tied to my apron strings.

And I can prove to you, in his defection in 1959, I made the statement

that Lee, as an individual, had the right to think and do what he

wanted to. They even said he was a Communist. If that is what he

studied, and that is what he wanted to do, I accepted that, because

that was his privilege as an individual. And that is public in 1959, my

statement, which shows that I am not the sobbing mother kind because he

has gone to Russia, and cry about it. I acknowledge that.

I have acknowledged that if the children, like Lee, went to Dallas,

as I testified that yesterday, and didn't tell me he was going to

Dallas--I don't grieve and lose my sleep over that. I have accepted

that fact, because when Lee and Marina got ready to come to me that

would be fine. In the meantime, I still have to live.

Mr. RANKIN. Are you telling the Commission that your son was part of a

conspiracy to assassinate the President?

Mrs. OSWALD. I am saying that I realize that my son could possibly be

part--yes--I realize he is a human being and he could possibly be in

this, yes, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. Are you saying he was?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I do not know. I am saying possibly he is involved.

Mr. RANKIN. And you are saying possibly Marina was involved?

Mrs. OSWALD. Well, exactly what I am trying to say. If I had proof,

sir, I would give the proof in an affidavit and this case would be

closed, like Mr. Wade said.

But I have as much right to my way of thinking as Mr. Wade has.

Mr. RANKIN. You are saying that possibly the Secret Service agents were

involved, too? You don't have any proof of that?

Mrs. OSWALD. That is exactly what I have been trying to say. I

have told you how I was treated, which has given me cause for this

particular way of thinking--because I believe that my son is innocent.

And I think that is the purpose of this Commission, is to hear all

witnesses and arrive at a conclusion. Am I not right, gentlemen?

So this is my way of thinking. So grant me my way of thinking. If I am

wrong, fine. But you may learn something.

Mr. RANKIN. What about the high official now. Can you tell us who that

was?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. I wish I did know. I have my own idea about that.

I would rather not--because it is a high official--I would rather not

give a name.

But I have my own very strong suspicions as to the official who he

might be.

Mr. RANKIN. We would appreciate your telling us within this group what

you think.

Mrs. OSWALD. Fine--and I expect to, Mr. Rankin. I am a person that is

very outspoken, as you know by now, and I will certainly do that.

But will you grant me the privilege first of finding out the name of

the man in the State Department that wrote the letter to Senator Tower,

because it is an incorrect--it is incorrect--the whole testimony is

incorrect.

Mr. RANKIN. We will get that correspondence for you.

Mrs. OSWALD. All right. I was going to go into something else, but

while we are here, I will continue this.

And this, to me, will be in this line. And I think very important to

you gentlemen. And you do not have a copy of what I am going to show

you. I am the only person that has this copy.

I am sorry to take time, but these were not copied, sir. We sealed them

up, and we were going to have them copied this afternoon. But I can

get to this particular one. This is the defection. I have much more

testimony than this. I have testimony, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you think that you can tell us the name of the high

official you spoke about?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I think so. And I am going to tell you. But please do

not ask me at this particular moment. I do not think this is the proper

time for me to--it is just--I have no proof. Understand? As I said,

it is my right to think and my analysis of the papers I have. I have

papers where I can come to a conclusion, just like you gentlemen are

going to have papers and witnesses and come to a conclusion.

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