Mrs. OSWALD. Now, there were other people that offered her homes.
Mr. RANKIN. But you seemed to think there was something improper or bad
about your son Robert wanting to get your daughter Marina taken care of
in this manner. I don't understand that. Can you explain it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Well--no--as I have explained before, Robert and
I are not close, we are not close as a family. But Robert is a very
easy-going person. He is not opinionated, particularly like I am. My
older son and Lee are my disposition. But because you are a Secret
Service man or somebody, if you tell him something, he will go along
and yes you. So he was part of this arrangement. They probably had to
have his consent. But he knew of the arrangement with Mr. Gregory and
Marina. They all knew it but me. I was not consulted about this at all.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you think Robert was trying to do something bad by it,
or just trying to look out for----
Mrs. OSWALD. He thought it was a good idea, that Marina should go
and live in this home. But I took a different attitude. I am not
interested in material things, gentlemen. I then went into my speech,
that I thought, as a family, Marina and I should stick together and
face our future together. I could see no reason--and I made this at
the Six Flags, and have made it public in the newspapers, I could see
no reason, no advantage of Marina living with strangers. I said that
before. I thought it would be better, original idea, Marina and I
had made, to live in my apartment and do the best we can. And I even
said--we have $863 to start with, and then if we don't make it "What
about you helping us?"
"But give us a chance as a family. Don't put the girl in a strange
home, a Russian girl, a foreign girl, taken away from her Mama."
Marina has no mother and father--she has a stepfather. But I was her
Mama up until this time. And I could not see Marina in a strange home.
Well, I am going to prove this story to you. It is a fantastic story.
But as I go along--I have witnesses--and that is why I asked you, sir,
I would like these people called to back up these fantastic stories I
am telling you. It can be proven, sir.
So I had no further contact with my daughter-in-law--once they came
out and said what they had planned. I had no inkling of it. That was
the--they wanted to keep her and the children away from me.
That night, the night of November 27th--now, we were in a bedroom with
twin beds that we shared. They opened the studio couch in the living
room, and rolled June's bed, the baby bed in the living room, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. What do you mean by "they"?
Mrs. OSWALD. The Secret Service had the maid come in with sheets and
everything and they got--opened the sofa into a bed. The Secret Service
rolled the baby bed from the bedroom into the living room. And I knew
that I was not wanted or involved. And I have a very dignified way
about me. I didn't say a word. What I did--I sat up in a chair all
night long in the living room, rather than to be so indignant as to
sleep in the bedroom where they had taken my daughter-in-law from me. I
sat up in a chair in the living room rather than be pushed aside like I
was being pushed aside.
Mr. RANKIN. Well, now, what Secret Servicemen were these--Mr. Howard?
Mrs. OSWALD. Mr. Howard was involved, and this other man.
Mr. RANKIN. The same man?
Mrs. OSWALD. This same man. And my son is in this, too. Robert was
part of this conspiracy that they were going to let her go to a home,
and they didn't tell me--and Mr. Peter Gregory.
Mr. RANKIN. And did they move your daughter-in-law out into the living
room?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, she slept on the sofa. And they moved June's
baby bed from the bedroom into the living room, by my daughter-in-law.
And I sat in a chair. I can do that. I am a nurse, and I can do without
sleep. And I had all the papers. I told you that the night before
they took me home to get my papers. And that is why I knew I had the
insurance money. So I started to work on the papers. And I sat up all
night long.
Mr. RANKIN. What did Marina say about that arrangement?
Mrs. OSWALD. There was nothing said between Marina and I. The last time
I had seen Marina was when she shrugged me off, and then this came out
why she shrugged me off. I have had no contact with Marina since.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, why do you think there is a conspiracy about this? Can
you explain that to us?
Mrs. OSWALD. About this particular instance?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, I don't say that is a particular instance. But it is
certainly a very unusual way to do a thing, a very unusual way--not to
consult me. Marina and I were friends. She was going to come and live
with me. I was going to share my money with her. And then they went
ahead and planned all this without my knowledge.
Maybe you know the answer to it, I don't know. But there was no hard
feelings--even now I love Marina and I would take and help her any way
I can.
So I don't understand these things. But I am telling you the way things
happen, the way I was excluded. And your Secret Service agents had part
of this.
Mr. RANKIN. And you do not think Robert and the Secret Service agents
could be acting in good faith to try to just help Marina and her
children along?
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, I cannot see from my point of view that it would
be good that a foreign girl lives in a stranger's home, a perfect
stranger who has come to the police department and offered her a
home. We are talking about a perfect stranger. If she is a perfect
stranger--maybe she wasn't. I have no way of knowing. But I am going to
assume what I read. It would be much better for this girl to go live
in this stranger's home than to be with her family? This girl and my
grandchildren needed a family, which I was that family. I cannot see
that.
Mr. RANKIN. What I am asking you is: Do you think it is possible that
Robert was just mistaken when he and the Secret Service man, if they
are involved, thought this might be a good plan. Isn't it possible they
were trying to do the right thing?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, I think it was deliberate. I am sure--I don't
think. I am positive it was deliberate. And I will tell you why as we
go along.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, you said you thought it was deliberate.
Mrs. OSWALD. I am trying to get everything in, so you can get a clear
picture.
Mr. RANKIN. Well, this plan to have your daughter-in-law go and live
with another lady--this Mrs. Pultz--you said you did not think it could
be innocent or in good faith?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes--because then this same Secret Service man, that I
don't know the name--now, I may be wrong about this--just a moment.
No--this is not the same man.
One of the other Secret Service men had gone to talk to Robert's boss,
because Robert was worried about his job. So this happened in the
afternoon. I had no contact with Marina. And he came in and in front
of me he patted Robert on the shoulder and said, "Now, Robert, I have
talked to your boss and you are all right. I assured him you are not
involved in any way."
So, gentlemen, Marina is taken care of; Robert is taken care of--I am
not feeling sorry for myself, believe me, because I can take care of
myself. But here is a mother who has come to the rescue, lost her job,
offered her good love and insurance money, and nobody has wondered
what is going to become of me.
Mr. RANKIN. Well, did you think it was improper that the Secret Service
man would go to Robert's boss and tell him he was not involved, that
there was nothing improper?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir; I do not. I think it was a fine gesture. And
that is the point I am trying to make out. Why are these fine gestures
to see that Marina is going to have a home and be taken care of, and
Robert's job is secure--but I am nothing. I was not included in the
plans. And what is going to become of me? I have no income. I have no
job. I lost my job. And nobody thought about me.
I don't mean to imply I'm sorry for myself. I am trying to bring out a
point that through all of this, that I have not been considered, even
as much as to testify. I want to know why. I don't understand why.
It is very strange.