Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me. I only know that his basic desire was to get to
Cuba by any means, and that all the rest of it was window dressing for
that purpose.
Mr. RANKIN. Then in this Exhibit 15 he proceeds to say, "The Cuban
Consulate was guilty of a gross breach of regulations." Do you know
what he meant by that?
Mrs. OSWALD. What regulations--what are the regulations?
Mr. RANKIN. I am trying to find out from you.
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know about that. I don't know what happened.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he ever say what regulations he thought were breached,
or that the Cuban Embassy didn't carry out regulations when he returned
from his trip and told you about what happened there?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Then he goes on to say in the Exhibit, "I am glad he has
since been replaced."
Do you know whom he was referring to?
Mrs. OSWALD. I have no knowledge of it. I think that if the person
to whom this letter was addressed would read the letter he wouldn't
understand anything, either.
Mr. RANKIN. Your husband goes on in Exhibit 15 to say, "The Federal
Bureau of Investigation is not now interested in my activities in the
progressive organization 'Fair Play for Cuba Committee' of which I was
secretary in New Orleans (State of Louisiana) since I no longer reside
in that state."
Do you know why he would say anything like that to the Embassy?
Mrs. OSWALD. Because he was crazy.
He wrote this in order to emphasize his importance. He was no secretary
of any--he was not a secretary of any organization.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know that he had received any inquiry from the
Embassy or anyone of the Soviet Union about the matters that he is
telling about here?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Then he goes on to say, "However, the FBI has visited us
here in Dallas, Texas, on November 1. Agent James P. Hosty"--do you
know whether there was such a visit by that man?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And was he referring to the man that you know as James P.
Hosty?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know his last name. He gave us his telephone
number, but it seems to me that his name was different.
Mr. RANKIN. After you received the telephone number, what did you do
with it?
Mrs. OSWALD. He gave the telephone number to Ruth, and she, in turn,
passed it on to Lee.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether he put it in a book or did anything
with it?
Mrs. OSWALD. He took the note with him to Dallas. I don't know what he
did with it.
Mr. RANKIN. Did the agent also give his license number for his car to
Mrs. Paine or to you or to your husband?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. But Lee had asked me that if an FBI agent were to
call, that I note down his automobile license number, and I did that.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you give the license number to him when you noted it
down?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, he goes on to say that this agent, James P. Hosty
"warned me that if I engaged in FPCC activities in Texas the FBI will
again take an 'interest' in me."
Do you remember anything about anything like that?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know why he said that in there, because if he has
in mind the man who visited us, that man had never seen Lee. He was
talking to me and to Mrs. Paine. But he had never met Lee. Perhaps this
is another agent, not the one who visited us.
But I don't know whether Lee had talked to him or not.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether any FBI agent had ever warned your
husband that if he engaged in any Fair Play for Cuba activities in
Texas, the FBI would be again interested in him?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I didn't know that.
Mr. RANKIN. Then in the exhibit he goes on to say, "This agent also
'suggested' to Marina Nichilyeva that she could remain in the United
States under FBI protection."
Did you ever hear of anything like that before?
Mrs. OSWALD. I had not been proposed anything of the sort at any time.
The only thing the agent did say is that if I had ever any kind of
difficulties or troubles in the sense that someone would try to force
me to do something, to become an agent, then I should get in touch with
him, and that if I don't want to do this, that they would help me. But
they never said that I live here and that I must remain here under
their protection.
Mr. RANKIN. Then in this Exhibit 15 he goes on to explain what he means
by the word "protection", saying "That is, she could defect from the
Soviet Union, of course." Do you remember anybody saying anything like
that to you?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, no one said anything like that.
Mr. RANKIN. Did anyone at any time, while you were in the United
States, suggest that you become an agent of any agency of the United
States?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, never.
Mr. RANKIN. Did anyone from the Soviet Union suggest that you be an
agent for that government, or any of its agencies?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, in this Exhibit 15, your husband goes on to say, "I
and my wife strongly protested tactics by the notorious FBI."
Do you know of any protest of that kind, or any action of that kind?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know of any protests, but simply that I said
that I would prefer not to get these visits, because they have a very
exciting and disturbing effect upon my husband. But it was not a
protest. This was simply a request.
Mr. RANKIN. And you never made any protests against anyone asking you
to act as an agent or to defect to the United States because no one
asked you that, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. No one ever asked me.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know of anything that you could tell the Commission
in regard to these matters in this letter, Exhibit 15, that would shed
more light on what your husband meant or what he was trying to do, that
you have not already told us?
Mrs. OSWALD. Everything that I could tell you with reference to this
letter I have told you.
The CHAIRMAN. I think we will take a short recess now, about 10 minutes.
Mrs. OSWALD. I would like to help you, but I simply don't know, I
cannot.
(Brief recess)
The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order.
Mr. Rankin, you may proceed.
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, I will hand you again Exhibit 14 and the
translation from the Russian and call your attention to the urgency of
your request there. I ask you, was that your idea to press for help
from the Embassy in regard to the visa, or your husband's?
Mrs. OSWALD. Of course my husband.
Mr. RANKIN. At the time of Exhibit 14, then, you were not anxious to
return to Russia?
Mrs. OSWALD. I never wanted to return but Lee insisted and there is
nothing else I could do. But sometimes when I wrote these letters, I
felt very lonely--since my husband didn't want me, I felt perhaps this
would be the best way.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know the Spanish language?
Mrs. OSWALD. Perhaps five words.
Mr. RANKIN. Have you given it any study?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I have a Spanish textbook of the Spanish language and
I had intended to study even while I was still in Russia, but I never
did.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband ever study Spanish that you know of?
Mrs. OSWALD. He didn't study it, but before his trip to Mexico he would
sit down with the textbook and look at it.
Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 17 and ask you if you recall having seen
that before.
Mrs. OSWALD. May I take it out?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. June seems to have played with it. This was Lee's study of
Spanish perhaps because this was all photographed, it is soiled. Here I
helped Lee. I wrote some Spanish words.
Mr. RANKIN. Does that Exhibit 17 have any of your husband's handwriting
on it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Some of it is my handwriting and some of it is Lee's
handwriting.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us when he was trying to study Spanish? Was it
at any time with regard to the time when he planned to go to Cuba?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. About when did he start?
Mrs. OSWALD. In August, in New Orleans, 1963.
Mr. RANKIN. And whatever he did in this notebook, Exhibit 17, he did at
that time or thereafter?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, this was in September.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he do whatever writing he did in connection with the
study of the Spanish language in Exhibit 17 at New Orleans in August or
after that date?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Do you want to know whether this was earlier than August or later?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. No, not earlier. This was in September, not in August.
Mr. RANKIN. And did he do anything in the writing of what is in Exhibit
17 in the study of the Spanish language at Dallas, that you know of?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 17.
The CHAIRMAN. It may be marked with the next number and received in
evidence.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 17, and
received in evidence.)
Mrs. OSWALD. How a simple notebook can become a matter of material
evidence--the Spanish words in it, and June's scribbling on it.
Mr. RANKIN. Returning to the time that your husband came back from
Mexico City to Dallas, can you tell us what type of luggage he brought
back with him?
Mrs. OSWALD. He had a military type raincoat with him and a small bag
with a zipper, blue in color.
Mr. RANKIN. As far as you recall he did not have two bags that he
brought back with him from Mexico?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he spend the first weekend of October 4 to 6 with you
at the Paines?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, not the whole weekend. When he returned he stayed
overnight and then he went to Dallas. But he returned on Saturday or
Friday evening. And he remained until Monday.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you notice any change in your husband after this trip
to Mexico?
Mrs. OSWALD. In my opinion, he was disappointed at not being able to
get to Cuba, and he didn't have any great desire to do so any more
because he had run into, as he himself said--into bureaucracy and red
tape. And he changed for the better. He began to treat me better.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us how he treated you better?
Mrs. OSWALD. He helped me more--although he always did help. But he was
more attentive. Perhaps this was because he didn't live together with
me but stayed in Dallas. Perhaps, also because we expected a child and
he was in somewhat an elated mood.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband have any money with him when he returned
from Mexico?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had some left. But I never counted how much money
he had in his wallet. That is why I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it a small or a large amount or do you know that?
Mrs. OSWALD. What would be a large amount for me would not be a large
amount for you.
Mr. RANKIN. Well, can you give us any estimate of what you think he had?
Mrs. OSWALD. He might have had $50 or $70, thereabouts. It is necessary
sometimes to make a joke. Otherwise, it gets boring.
Mr. RANKIN. After the first weekend, after your husband returned, which
he spent at the Paines, as you have described, where did he live in
Dallas?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he rented a room in Oak Cliff, but I don't
know the address. I didn't ask, because I didn't need it.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know that he lived with a Mrs. Bledsoe at any time
in Dallas?
Mrs. OSWALD. In what sense do you mean "lived with"?
Mr. RANKIN. I mean roomed in her home.
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. That was a place on Marsallis Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know about it.
Mr. RANKIN. How did he return from Irving to Dallas at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Ruth met him at the bus station at that time and drove him
home. By bus.
Mr. RANKIN. You said before that you learned about the depository job
at some neighbor's home, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. In whose home was that?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know her last name. When you walk out of the Paine
house, it is the first house to the right. I am trying to remember.
Perhaps later I will.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it the lady of that house who told you, or someone that
was a guest there?
Mrs. OSWALD. Perhaps you know the name.
Mr. RANKIN. We don't know the name of the lady next door. We know a
number of names, but not by the location.
Mrs. OSWALD. Her first name is Dorothy. And there was another woman
there, another neighbor, who said that her brother worked at the
depository, and that as far as she knew, there was a vacancy there.
Mr. RANKIN. And what was the name of that neighbor whose brother worked
at the depository?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Was that Mrs. Randle?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know. I might know her first name if you mention
it.
Mr. RANKIN. Is there a Linnie Mae Randle that you remember?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Was she a sister of Mr. Frazier?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know such people.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know a Mr. Frazier that had a job at the depository?
Mrs. OSWALD. I didn't know his name. I knew that it was a young man. I
don't think he was 18 yet.
Mr. RANKIN. And was he the brother of this friend who was at the
neighbor's house?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And he was the one that your husband rode from Irving into
Dallas from time to time to go to work, did he?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, after Lee was already working this boy would bring
Lee and take him back with him to Dallas.
Mr. RANKIN. And when did he take him, ordinarily?
Mrs. OSWALD. 8 o'clock in the morning.
Mr. RANKIN. And did he take him on Monday morning?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Usually each week he would take him on Monday morning?
Mrs. OSWALD. When Lee came for a weekend, yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And then when did he bring him back from Dallas?
Mrs. OSWALD. At 5:30 on Friday.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband ever come in the middle of the week?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, only during the last week when all of this happened
with reference to the assassination of the President--he came on a
Thursday.
Mr. RANKIN. Did Mrs. Paine have anything to do with your husband
getting this job at the depository?
Mrs. OSWALD. She had no direct connection with it, but an indirect
connection, of course. I lived with her and she talked to a neighbor
and mentioned that Lee was out of work.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it Mrs. Paine that found out about the job, then?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. And she telephoned there and asked whether they had
a job available. They didn't say anything specific but they asked that
Lee come there on the following day.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you find out whether your husband did go there the
following day?
Mrs. OSWALD. On the following day he went there, had a talk with them,
and he telephoned that he had already received the job.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he telephone to you or to Mrs. Paine about getting the
job?
Mrs. OSWALD. He telephoned me. But, of course, he thanked Ruth.
Mr. RANKIN. And when did he start on the job? Was there two or three
days before he got the job and started, or more than that?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he started on the day following being
accepted for the job. I think it was either on the 14th, 15th, or 16th
of October.
Mr. RANKIN. When he was staying at Mrs. Bledsoe's rooming house, did he
call you and give you the number there?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall where he was when he gave this fictitious
name?
Mrs. OSWALD. What do you mean where he was? From where he telephoned?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes, or the number that he gave you--that is the rooming
house that he was at when he used this fictitious name, and you told us
you called there.
Mrs. OSWALD. He lived at first in one place, and then he changed. It
was the last place where he had given a fictitious name. I don't know
what name he lived under in the first place, because I never telephoned
him.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know the name that he lived under in the second
place, when you did call him?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. You don't remember the fictitious name that he gave you?
Mrs. OSWALD. I read in the paper after everything happened, but at that
time I didn't know. He said that his last name was Lee. He didn't say
that. I read that in the paper.
Mr. RANKIN. Did that remind you, then, that that was the name they gave
you when you called and he answered the telephone?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, no one told me anything. I didn't know under what name
he lived there.
Mr. RANKIN. But you found out that he was not living under his own
name, is that what you meant before?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. After he got his job, did he return the next weekend to see
you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember whether that time he returned was on Friday
or Saturday?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was on Friday, October 18. It was his birthday.
He stopped with Ruth. On Sunday I went to the hospital, and he stayed
overnight from Monday until Tuesday.
Mr. RANKIN. After your husband returned from Mexico, did you examine
the rifle in the garage at any time?
Mrs. OSWALD. I had never examined the rifle in the garage. It was
wrapped in a blanket and was lying on the floor.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever check to see whether the rifle was in the
blanket?
Mrs. OSWALD. I never checked to see that. There was only once that I
was interested in finding out what was in that blanket, and I saw that
it was a rifle.
Mr. RANKIN. When was that?
Mrs. OSWALD. About a week after I came from New Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. And then you found that the rifle was in the blanket, did
you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I saw the wooden part of it, the wooden stock.
Mr. RANKIN. On the weekend before your husband got his job at the
depository, did he spend that with you at the Paines?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he come home Friday or Saturday?
Mrs. OSWALD. On a Friday.
Mr. RANKIN. When he returned to Dallas on Monday, the 14th of October,
did he tell you he was going to change his room?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember what your husband's pay was at the
depository?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me that it was also $1.25.
Mr. RANKIN. About how much a month did it run?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me it was $210 to $230.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the hours that he worked?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems that--it seems to me that it was from 8:30 a.m.
to 5 p.m.
Mr. RANKIN. And did he work the weekend or any overtime?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. It does happen in that depository that they work
overtime. But he did not have to work any.
Mr. RANKIN. During the week when he was in Dallas and you were at
Irving, did he call you from time to time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Daily, twice.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he leave his telephone number in Dallas with you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.