Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he had shot at General Walker?
Mrs. OSWALD. I told him that he had no right to kill people in
peacetime, he had no right to take their life because not everybody has
the same ideas as he has. People cannot be all alike.
He said that this was a very bad man, that he was a fascist, that he
was the leader of a fascist organization, and when I said that even
though all of that might be true, just the same he had no right to
take his life, he said if someone had killed Hitler in time it would
have saved many lives. I told him that this is no method to prove your
ideas, by means of a rifle.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him how long he had been planning to do this?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He said he had been planning for two months.
Yes--perhaps he had planned to do so even earlier, but according to his
conduct I could tell he was planning--he had been planning this for two
months or perhaps a little even earlier.
The CHAIRMAN. Would you like to take a little recess?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, thank you. Better to get it over with.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he show you a picture of the Walker house then?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. That was after the shooting?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He had a book--he had a notebook in which he noted
down quite a few details. It was all in English, I didn't read it. But
I noticed the photograph. Sometimes he would lock himself in his room
and write in the book. I thought that he was writing some other kind of
memoirs, as he had written about his life in the Soviet Union.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever read that book?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know of anything else he had in it besides this
Walker house picture?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. Photographs and notes, and I think there was a map in
there.
Mr. RANKIN. There was a map of the area where the Walker house was?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was a map of Dallas, but I don't know where Walker
lived. Sometimes evenings he would be busy with this. Perhaps he was
calculating something, but I don't know. He had a bus schedule and
computed something.
After this had happened, people thought that he had a car, but he had
been using a bus.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he explain to you about his being able to use a bus
just as well as other people could use a car--something of that kind?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. Simply as a passenger. He told me that even before
that time he had gone also to shoot, but he had returned. I don't know
why. Because on the day that he did fire, there was a church across the
street and there were many people there, and it was easier to merge in
the crowd and not be noticed.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him about this note that he had left, what he
meant by it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes--he said he had in mind that if in case he were
arrested, I would know what to do.
Mr. RANKIN. The note doesn't say anything about Walker, does it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him if that is what he meant by the note?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, because as soon as he came home I showed him the note
and asked him "What is the meaning of this?"
Mr. RANKIN. And that is when he gave you the explanation about the
Walker shooting?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
I know that on a Sunday he took the rifle, but I don't think he fired
on a Sunday. Perhaps this was on Friday. So Sunday he left and took the
rifle.
Mr. RANKIN. If the Walker shooting was on Wednesday, does that refresh
your memory as to the day of the week at all?
Mrs. OSWALD. Refresh my memory as to what?
Mr. RANKIN. As to the day of the shooting?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was in the middle of the week.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he give any further explanation of what had happened
that evening?
Mrs. OSWALD. When he fired, he did not know whether he had hit Walker
or not. He didn't take the bus from there. He ran several kilometers
and then took the bus. And he turned on the radio and listened, but
there were no reports.
The next day he bought a paper and there he read it was only chance
that saved Walker's life. If he had not moved, he might have been
killed.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he comment on that at all?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said only that he had taken very good aim, that it was
just chance that caused him to miss. He was very sorry that he had not
hit him.
I asked him to give me his word that he would not repeat anything like
that. I said that this chance shows that he must live and that he
should not be shot at again. I told him that I would save the note and
that if something like that should be repeated again, I would go to
the police and I would have the proof in the form of that note.
He said he would not repeat anything like that again.
By the way, several days after that, the De Mohrenschildts came to us,
and as soon as he opened the door he said, "Lee, how is it possible
that you missed?"
I looked at Lee. I thought that he had told De Mohrenschildt about it.
And Lee looked at me, and he apparently thought that I had told De
Mohrenschildt about it. It was kind of dark. But I noticed--it was in
the evening, but I noticed that his face changed, that he almost became
speechless.
You see, other people knew my husband better than I did. Not
always--but in this case.
Mr. RANKIN. Was De Mohrenschildt a friend that he told--your husband
told him personal things that you knew of?
Mrs. OSWALD. He asked Lee not because Lee had told him about it, but I
think because he is smart enough man to have been able to guess it. I
don't know--he is simply a liberal, simply a man. I don't think that he
is being accused justly of being a Communist.
Mr. RANKIN. That is De Mohrenschildt that you refer to?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell the authorities anything about this Walker
incident when you learned about it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. You have told the Secret Service or the FBI people reasons
why you didn't. Will you tell us?
Mrs. OSWALD. Why I did not tell about it?
First, because it was my husband. As far as I know, according to the
local laws here, a wife cannot be a witness against her husband. But,
of course, if I had known that Lee intended to repeat something like
that, I would have told.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he ask you to return the note to him?
Mrs. OSWALD. He forgot about it. But apparently after that he thought
that what he had written in his book might be proof against him, and he
destroyed it.
Mr. RANKIN. That is this book that you have just referred to in which
he had the Walker house picture?
Mrs. OSWALD. There was a notebook, yes, that is the one.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you do with the note that he had left for you
after you talked about it and said you were going to keep it?
Mrs. OSWALD. I had it among my things in a cookbook. But I have two--I
don't remember in which.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your relations with your husband change after this
Walker incident?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you describe to us the changes as you observed them?
Mrs. OSWALD. Soon after that, Lee lost his job--I don't know for what
reason. He was upset by it. And he looked for work for several days.
And then I insisted that it would be better for him to go to New
Orleans where he had relatives. I insisted on that because I wanted
to get him further removed from Dallas and from Walker, because even
though he gave me his word, I wanted to have him further away, because
a rifle for him was not a very good toy--a toy that was too enticing.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say that you wanted him to go to New Orleans
because of the Walker incident?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I simply told him that I wanted to see his home town.
He had been born there.
Mr. RANKIN. When he promised you that he would not do anything like
that again, did you then believe him?
Mrs. OSWALD. I did not quite believe him inasmuch as the rifle remained
in the house.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him to get rid of the rifle at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. After he shot at Walker, did you notice his taking the
rifle out any more to practice?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall when you went to New Orleans?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was in May. Lee went there himself, by himself.
At that time, I became acquainted with Mrs. Paine, and I stayed with
her while he was looking for work. In about one week Lee telephoned me
that he had found a job and that I should come down.
Mr. RANKIN. When did you first get acquainted with Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was a couple of months earlier--probably in
January.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you happen to go to Mrs. Paine's house to stay? Did
she invite you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes; she invited me. I had become acquainted with her
through some Russian friends of ours. We had visited with some people,
and she was there. Inasmuch as she was studying Russian, she invited me
to stay with her.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you pay her anything for staying with her?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I only repaid her in the sense that I helped her in
the household and that I gave her Russian language lessons. This, in
her words, was the very best pay that I could give her. And she wanted
that I remain with her longer.
But, of course, it was better for me to be with my husband.
Mr. RANKIN. How did your husband let you know that he had found a job?
Mrs. OSWALD. He telephoned me.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you then leave at once for New Orleans?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And how did you get to New Orleans from Dallas?
Mrs. OSWALD. Mrs. Paine took me there in her car. She took her children
and my things and we went there.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have much in the way of household goods to move?
Mrs. OSWALD. Everything--we could put everything into one car. But, in
fact, most of the things Lee had taken with him. Because he went by bus.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he take the gun with him to New Orleans?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember exactly, but it seems to me that it was
not among my things.
Mr. RANKIN. Where did you live at New Orleans?
Mrs. OSWALD. Magazine Street. By the time I arrived there Lee already
had rented an apartment.
Mr. RANKIN. When Mrs. Paine brought you down to New Orleans, did she
stay with you for any period of time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, she was there for two days.
Mr. RANKIN. How did Mrs. Paine and your husband get along? Were they
friendly?
Mrs. OSWALD. She was very good to us, to Lee and to me, and Lee was
quite friendly with her, but he did not like her. I know that he didn't
like her.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he didn't like her?
Mrs. OSWALD. He considered her to be a stupid woman. Excuse me--these
are not my words.
Mr. RANKIN. Were you and Mrs. Paine good friends?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, so-so. I tried to help her as much as I could. But I
also--I was--I did not like her too well. I also considered her not to
be a very smart woman.
Mr. RANKIN. I think it is about time for a recess, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well. We will take a recess for 10 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will be in order.
Mr. Rankin, you may continue.
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, did you discuss the Walker shooting with Mrs.
Paine?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I didn't tell anyone. Apart from the FBI. That is
after--that is later.
Mr. RANKIN. When was it that you told the FBI about the Walker shooting?
Mrs. OSWALD. About 2 weeks after Lee was killed.
Mr. RANKIN. Before you went to New Orleans, had you seen anyone from
the FBI?
Mrs. OSWALD. The FBI visited us in Fort Worth when we lived on Mercedes
Street.
Mr. RANKIN. Was that in August 1962?
Mrs. OSWALD. Probably.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know the names of the FBI agents that visited you
then?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't remember that Lee had just returned from work
and we were getting ready to have dinner when a car drove up and man
introduced himself and asked Lee to step out and talk to him.
There was another man in the car. They talked for about 2 hours and I
was very angry, because everything had gotten cold. This meant more
work for me. I asked who these were, and he was very upset over the
fact that the FBI was interested in him.
Mr. RANKIN. Did that interview take place in the car?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband tell you what they said to him and what he
said to them?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know to what extent this was true, but Lee said
that the FBI had told him that in the event some Russians might visit
him and would try to recruit him to work for them, he should notify the
FBI agents. I don't know to what extent this was true. But perhaps Lee
just said that.
Mr. RANKIN. Did our husband say anything about the FBI asking him to
work for them?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, he didn't tell me.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything more about what they said to him in
this interview?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, he didn't tell me verbatim, but he said that they saw
Communists in everybody and they are very much afraid and inasmuch as I
had returned from Russia.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you that they had asked him whether he had
acted as an agent or was asked to be an agent for the Russians?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.