Mrs. OSWALD. It is not just that it wasn't true, but not quite exact.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall some of the information that you gave in
those interviews that was incorrect that you would like to correct now?
Will you tell us that?
Mrs. OSWALD. At the present time, I can't remember any specific
instance, but perhaps in the course of your questioning if it comes up
I will say so.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the date that you arrived in the United
States with your husband, Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. OSWALD. On the 13th of June, 1962--I am not quite certain as to
the year--'61 or '62, I think '62.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you come to this country?
Mrs. OSWALD. From Moscow via Poland, Germany, and Holland we came to
Amsterdam by train. And from Amsterdam to New York by ship, and New
York to Dallas by air.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the name of the ship on which you came?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was the SS _Rotterdam_ but I am not sure.
Mr. RANKIN. What time of the day did you arrive in New York?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was--about noon or 1 p.m., thereabouts. It is hard to
remember the exact time.
Mr. RANKIN. How long did you stay in New York at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. We stayed that evening and the next 24 hours in a hotel in
New York, and then we left the following day by air.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the name of the hotel where you stayed?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know the name of the hotel but it is in the Times
Square area, not far from the publishing offices of the New York Times.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you do during your stay in New York?
Mrs. OSWALD. That evening we just walked around the city to take a look
at it. In the morning I remained in the hotel while Lee left in order
to arrange for tickets, and so forth.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you visit anyone or have visitors at your hotel during
that period?
Mrs. OSWALD. We didn't have any visitors but I remember that with Lee
we visited some kind of an office, on official business, perhaps it had
something to do with immigration or with the tickets. Lee spoke to them
in English and I didn't understand it.
Mr. RANKIN. Would that be a Travelers' Aid Bureau or Red Cross?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether or not you or your husband received any
financial assistance for the trip to Texas at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know exactly where Lee got the money, but he said
that his brother Robert had given him the money. But the money for the
trip from the Soviet Union to New York was given to us by the American
Embassy in Moscow.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall what time of the day you left on the flight
to Texas?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that by about 5 p.m. we were already in Texas.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you go to Dallas or Fort Worth at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. In Dallas we were met by the brother, Robert, he lived in
Fort Worth, and he took us from Dallas to Fort Worth and we stopped at
the house.
Mr. RANKIN. Who else stayed at Robert's house at that time besides your
family?
Mrs. OSWALD. His family and no one else.
Mr. RANKIN. What did his family consist of at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. He and his wife and two children, a boy and a girl.
Mr. RANKIN. How long did you stay at Robert's?
Mrs. OSWALD. About 1 to 1-1/2 months--perhaps longer, but no longer
than 2 months.
Mr. RANKIN. Were your relations and your husband's with Robert pleasant
at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, they were very good. His brother's relationship to us
was very good.
Mr. RANKIN. Would you briefly describe what you did during that time
when you were at Robert's?
Mrs. OSWALD. The first time we got there we were, of course, resting
for about a week, and I was busy, of course, with my little girl who
was then very little. And in my free time, of course, I helped in the
household.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband do anything around the house or did he
seek work right away?
Mrs. OSWALD. For about a week he was merely talking and took a trip to
the library. That is it.
Mr. RANKIN. Then did he seek work in Fort Worth?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And when did he find his first job there?
Mrs. OSWALD. While we were with Robert. It seems it was at the end of
the second month that Lee found work. But at this time I don't remember
the date exactly but his mother who lived in Fort Worth at that time
rented a room and she proposed that we spend some time with her, that
we live with her for some time.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss with your husband this proposal of your
mother-in-law to have you live with her?
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, she made the proposal to my husband, not to me. Of
course, I found out about it.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you and he have any discussion about it after you found
out about it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, of course.
Mr. RANKIN. You recall that discussion?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I only remember the fact.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he find work after you left Robert's then?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. You did move to be with your mother-in-law, lived with her
for a time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, about 3 weeks. And then after 3 weeks Lee did not
want to live with her any more and he rented an apartment.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know the reason why he did not want to live there
any more?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seemed peculiar to me and didn't want to believe it but
he did not love his mother, she was not quite a normal woman. Now, I
know this for sure.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you that at the time?
Mrs. OSWALD. He talked about it but since he spoke in English to his
mother, I didn't understand it. There were quite a few scenes when
he would return from work he didn't want to talk to her. Perhaps she
thought I was the reason for the fact that Lee did not want to talk to
her. And, of course, for a mother this is painful and I told him that
he should be more attentive to his mother but he did not change. I
think that one of the reasons for this was that she talked a great deal
about how much she had done to enable Lee to return from Russia, and
Lee felt that he had done most of--the greatest effort in that respect
and didn't want to discuss it.
Mr. RANKIN. Where did he find work at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Of course, if I had been told now I would have remembered
it because I have learned some English but at that time I didn't know,
but Lee told me that it wasn't far from Mercedes Street where we lived,
and it was really common labor connected with some kind of metal work,
something for buildings.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he ever say whether he enjoyed that work?
Mrs. OSWALD. He didn't like it.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall how long he stayed at that job?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know but it seemed to me that he worked there for
about 3 or 4 months. Perhaps longer. Dates are one of my problems.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether he left that job voluntarily or was
discharged?
Mrs. OSWALD. He told me that he had been discharged but I don't know
why.
Mr. RANKIN. When you left the mother-in-law's house where did you go?
Mrs. OSWALD. I have already said that we moved to Mercedes Street.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have an apartment there?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, we rented an apartment in a duplex.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the address on Mercedes Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't remember the exact number.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you describe the apartment, how many rooms it had?
Mrs. OSWALD. Living room, kitchen, bath, and one bedroom.
Mr. RANKIN. This was the first time since you had come to this country
then that you had an opportunity to have a home of your own, is that
right?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, we had our own home in Russia.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband work a full day at that time on this job?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sometimes he even worked on Saturdays.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you do when he came home, did he help you with
housework?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He frequently went to a library. He read a great deal.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall any of the books that he read at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I only know that they were books more of a historical
nature rather than fiction or literature.
Mr. RANKIN. In your story in Russian you relate the fact that he read a
great deal of the time. Could you describe to the Commission just how
that was? Did he go off by himself to read or how did he handle that?
Mrs. OSWALD. He would bring a book from a library, sit in the living
room and read. I was busy with housework, and that is the way it
happened.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have differences between you about the time that he
spent reading rather than devoting it to you or the other members of
the family?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. We did have quarrels about his relationship to his
mother, the fact that he didn't want to change his relationship to his
mother. I know that he read so much that when we lived in New Orleans
he used to read sometimes all night long and in order not to disturb me
he would be sitting in the bathroom for several hours reading.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your quarrels start at that time when you were at
Mercedes Street the first time.
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, we didn't have many quarrels.
Mr. RANKIN. When you were at Mercedes Street did you have Robert visit
you or did you visit him?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, he came to us sometimes.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall seeing any guns at Mercedes Street while you
were there?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your mother-in-law come to see you at Mercedes Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you describe the relationship between your husband and
your mother-in-law while he was at Mercedes Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. She did not want us to move away to Mercedes Street, and
Lee did not want to remain with her and did not even want her to visit
us after that. Lee did not want her to know the address to which we
were moving and Robert helped us in the move. I felt very sorry for
her. Sometime after that she visited us while Lee was at work and I was
quite surprised wondering about how she found out our address. And then
we had a quarrel because he said to me, "Why did you open the door for
her, I don't want her to come here any more."
Mr. RANKIN. During this period did your husband spend much time with
the baby, June?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He loved children very much.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you obtain a television set at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Lee wanted to buy a television set on credit. He then
returned it. Should I speak a little louder?
Mr. RANKIN. Did Robert help any with the money or just in guaranteeing
the payments?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he only guaranteed the payments.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall how much the television set cost?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. So far as you know it was paid for out of your husband's
income?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Were you still at Mercedes Street when he lost his job with
the welding company?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he try to find another job in Fort Worth then?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know how much he looked for jobs before he found one
then?
Mrs. OSWALD. He looked for work for some time but he could not find
it and then some Russian friends of ours helped him find some work in
Dallas.
Mr. RANKIN. How long was he out of work?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me it was about 2 weeks; hard to remember,
perhaps that long.
Mr. RANKIN. Where did he find work in Dallas, do you remember the name?
Mrs. OSWALD. I know it was some kind of a printing company which
prepares photographs for newspapers.
Mr. RANKIN. Was he working with the photographic department of that
company?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Was he an apprentice in that work trying to learn it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, at first he was an apprentice and later he worked.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what his income was when he was working for the
welding company?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was about $200 a month, I don't know. I know it
was a dollar and a quarter an hour.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he work much overtime at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Not too much but sometimes he did work Saturdays.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall how much he received as pay at the printing
company?
Mrs. OSWALD. A dollar forty an hour.
Mr. RANKIN. How many hours did he work a week, do you recall?
Mrs. OSWALD. He usually worked until 5 p.m. But sometimes he worked
later, and on Saturdays, too.
Mr. RANKIN. The ordinary work week at that time was the 5-day week
then, and the Saturdays would be an overtime period?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Who were the Russian friends who helped your husband find
this job in Dallas?
Mrs. OSWALD. George Bouhe.
Mr. RANKIN. Did this friend and other Russian friends visit you at
Mercedes Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. When we lived at Fort Worth we became acquainted with
Peter Gregory, he is a Russian, he lives in Fort Worth and through him
we became acquainted with others.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us insofar as you recall, the friends that
you knew in Fort Worth?
Mrs. OSWALD. Our first acquaintance was Gregory. Through him I met Gali
Clark, Mrs. Elena Hall. That is all in Fort Worth. And then we met
George Bouhe in Dallas, and Anna Meller, and Anna Ray and Katya Ford.
Mr. RANKIN. By your answer do you mean that some of those people you
met in Dallas and some in Fort Worth?
Mrs. OSWALD. George De Mohrenschildt--this was both in Fort Worth and
Dallas, the names of my recital but they were well acquainted with each
other, even though some lived in Dallas and some lived in Fort Worth.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you please sort them out for us and tell us those you
met in Dallas?
Mrs. OSWALD. You mean by the question, who out of these Russians lives
in Dallas?
Mr. RANKIN. Or which ones you met in Dallas as distinguished from those
you had already met in Fort Worth?
Mrs. OSWALD. In Fort Worth I met the people from Dallas. There was
George Bouhe, George De Mohrenschildt--no. Anna Meller and George Bouhe
only, they were from Dallas, but I met them in Fort Worth.
Mr. RANKIN. Did these friends visit you at your home in Fort Worth?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sometimes they came to visit us when they were in
Dallas, they came to us. Sometimes they made a special trip to come and
see us.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever visit them in their homes?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, when we lived in Fort Worth we went to Dallas several
times to visit them.
Mr. RANKIN. When you made these visits did you go to spend an evening
or a considerable part of the time or were they short visits? Can you
describe that?
Mrs. OSWALD. We used to come early in the morning and leave at night.
We would spend the entire day with them. We went there by bus.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have an automobile of your own at any time during
this period?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did any of these people have meals in your home when they
visited you?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. They usually brought--they usually came for short
visits and they brought their own favorite vegetables such as
cucumbers, George liked cucumbers.
Mr. RANKIN. When you moved to Dallas, where did you live the first time?
Mrs. OSWALD. I did not move to Dallas together with Lee. Lee went to
Dallas when he found the job, and I remained in Fort Worth and lived
with Elena Hall.
Mr. RANKIN. For how long a period did you live with Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that it was about a month and a half.
Mr. RANKIN. During that month and a half what did your husband do?
Mrs. OSWALD. He had a job. He was working. He would call me up over the
telephone but how he spent his time, I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know during that month and a half where he lived?
Mrs. OSWALD. At first, I know that he rented a room in the YMcA but
very shortly thereafter he rented an apartment. But where I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. During that month and a half did he come and see you and
the baby?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, two or three times he came to see us because he had
no car. It was not very easy.
Mr. RANKIN. Were these trips to see you on the weekends?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. When he came did he also stay at the Hall's?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. When you were staying at the Hall's did you pay them for
your room and your meals?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. No, she was very friendly toward us and she tried to
help us.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you and your husband do when he came to see you?
Did he spend his time with you there in the home or did you go some
place?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, we didn't go anywhere.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he do any reading there?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I remember that it was only a couple of times that he
came for a weekend. Generally, he only came for a very short period of
time, because he would come together with our friends, and they could
not stay very long.
Mr. RANKIN. When he came during that period did he discuss what he had
been doing in Dallas, his work and other things?
Mrs. OSWALD. He liked his work very much.
Mr. RANKIN. After this month and a half did he find a place for you all
to live together?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, but it wasn't a problem there to find a place, no
problem there to find a place.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you then move to a home in Dallas?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, on Elsbeth, Elsbeth Street in Dallas.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember the number?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you move your things from Mrs. Hall's to the place
on Elsbeth Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. A friend who had a car helped us--I don't remember his
name, Taylor, Gary Taylor.
The CHAIRMAN. Suppose we take a recess now for about 10 minutes to
allow Mrs. Oswald to refresh herself.
(Short recess.)
The CHAIRMAN. The Commission may be in order.
Mr. RANKIN. Did that require one or more trips to move your things from
Fort Worth to Dallas when you went to Elsbeth Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. One trip was enough.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you observe any guns in your things when you moved?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. What kind of place did you have at Elsbeth Street, was it
rooms or an apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. An apartment.
Mr. RANKIN. How many rooms in the apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. One living room, a bedroom, a kitchen, and the bathroom.
It sounds very small for all of you but for us it was quite sufficient.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have a telephone there?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall what rent you paid?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me that it was $60, plus the utilities.
Mr. RANKIN. That would be $60 a month?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, and electricity and gas but the water was free. Sixty
dollars a month including water.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband help you with the housework at that
address?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he always helped.
Mr. RANKIN. What about his reading habits there, were they the same?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, about the same.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us a little more fully about his reading? Did
he spend several hours each evening in this reading?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall any of the books that he read at Elsbeth
Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. He had two books, two thick books on the history of
the United States.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband come home for a midday meal?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you go out in the evenings?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Where did you go?
Mrs. OSWALD. Sometimes we went shopping to stores, and movies, though
Lee really went to the movies himself. He wanted to take me but I did
not understand English. Then on weekends we would go to a lake not far
away or to a park or to a cafe for some ice cream.
Mr. RANKIN. When you went to the lake or the park did you take food
with you and have a picnic?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you get to the lake or the park, by bus or car, or
what means of transportation?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was only 10 minutes away, 10 minutes walking time from
us.
Mr. RANKIN. Were either you or your husband taking any schooling at
that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Lee took English courses or typing courses.
Mr. RANKIN. During what days of the week were these typing courses?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was three days a week. I don't remember exactly what
the days were. It seems to me it was 1 day at the beginning of the week
and 2 days at the end of the week that he took these night courses.
Mr. RANKIN. Would it help you to recall if I suggested they were
Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me that is the way it was. I know it was on
Monday.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall what hours of the evening he was supposed to
be at these classes?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems that it was from 7 until 9.
Mr. RANKIN. About what time would he get home from work?
Mrs. OSWALD. About 5 to 5:30.
Mr. RANKIN. Then would you eat your evening meal?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. How soon after that would he leave for the class?
Mrs. OSWALD. When Lee took his courses he generally did not come home
for dinner, usually he didn't.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he practice his typewriting at home at all?
Mrs. OSWALD. At home, no. But he had a book, a textbook on typing which
he would review when he was at home.
Mr. RANKIN. How soon after the class was over did he come home
ordinarily?
Mrs. OSWALD. Nine o'clock.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you anything about friends that he met at these
classes?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. While you were at Elsbeth Street do you recall seeing any
guns in your apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember exhibiting any guns to the De
Mohrenschildt's while you were at Elsbeth Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street, perhaps you are confused, this
was on Neely Street.
Mr. RANKIN. When did you move to Neely Street from the Elsbeth Street
apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. In January after the new year. I don't remember exactly.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember why you moved from Elsbeth to Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. I like it better on Neely Street. We had a porch there and
that was more convenient for the child.
Mr. RANKIN. What size apartment did you have on Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. The same type of apartment.
Mr. RANKIN. Was the only difference the terrace then?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, except that it was on the second floor. It was a
second-floor apartment.
Mr. RANKIN. Was the Elsbeth Street apartment a first-floor apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. What about the rent? Was there a difference in rent between
the two places?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, it was the same rent. It is perhaps even less. It
seems to me it was $55.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have any differences with your husband while you
were at Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. Well, there are always some reasons for some quarrel
between a husband and wife, not everything is always smooth.
Mr. RANKIN. I had in mind if there was any violence or any hitting of
you. Did that occur at Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. That was on Elsbeth Street.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall what brought that about?
Mrs. OSWALD. Not quite. I am trying to remember. It seems to me that it
was at that time that Lee began to talk about his wanting to return to
Russia. I did not want that and that is why we had quarrels.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have discussions between you about this idea of
returning to Russia?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Lee wanted me to go to Russia. I told him that
that--Lee wanted me to go to Russia, and I told him that if he wanted
me to go then that meant that he didn't love me, and that in that case
what was the idea of coming to the United States in the first place.
Lee would say that it would be better for me if I went to Russia. I did
not know why. I did not know what he had in mind. He said he loved me
but that it would be better for me if I went to Russia, and what he had
in mind I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know when he first started to talk about your going
to Russia?
Mrs. OSWALD. On Elsbeth Street.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember any occasion which you thought caused him
to start to talk that way?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know why he started to hit you about that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Now, I think that I know, although at that time I didn't.
I think that he was very nervous and just this somehow relieved his
tension.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you observe sometime when you thought he changed?
Mrs. OSWALD. I would say that immediately after coming to the United
States Lee changed. I did not know him as such a man in Russia.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you describe how you observed these changes and what
they were as you saw them?
Mrs. OSWALD. He helped me as before, but he became a little more of a
recluse. He did not like my Russian friends and he tried to forbid me
to have anything to do with them.
He was very irritable, sometimes for a trifle, for a trifling reason.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he did not like your Russian friends?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know why he didn't like them. I didn't understand.
At least that which he said was completely unfounded. He simply said
some stupid or foolish things.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us the stupid things that he said?
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, he thought that they were fools for having left
Russia; they were all traitors. I would tell him he was in the same
position being an American in America but there were really no reasons
but just irritation. He said that they all only like money, and
everything is measured by money. It seems to me that perhaps he was
envious of them in the sense they were more prosperous than he was.
When I told him, when I would say that to him he did not like to hear
that.
Perhaps I shouldn't say these foolish things and I feel kind of
uncomfortable to talk about the foolish things that happened or what he
said foolish things.
This is one of the reasons why I don't know really the reasons for
these quarrels because sometimes the quarrels were just trifles. It is
just that Lee was very unrestrained and very explosive at that time.
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, we will ask you to be very frank with us. It
isn't for the purpose of embarrassing you or your husband that we ask
you these things but it might help us to understand and even if you
will tell us the foolish and stupid things it may shed some light on
the problem. You understand that?
Mrs. OSWALD. I understand you are not asking these questions out of
curiosity but for a reason.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband indicate any particular Russian friends
that he disliked more than others?
Mrs. OSWALD. He liked De Mohrenschildt but he--because he was a strong
person, but only De Mohrenschildt. He did not like Bouhe or Anna Meller.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever tell him you liked these people?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I told him all the time that I liked these people and
that is why he was angry at me and would tell me that I was just like
they were. At one time I left him and went to my friends because he put
me into--put me on the spot by saying, "Well, if you like your friends
so much then go ahead and live with them," and he left me no choice.
Mr. RANKIN. When was this, Mrs. Oswald?
Mrs. OSWALD. On Elsbeth Street.
Mr. RANKIN. How long were you gone from him then?
Mrs. OSWALD. One week.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he ask you to return?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I took June and I went to Anna Meller, took a cab and
went there. I spent several days with her. Lee didn't know where I was
but he called up and about 2 or 3 days after I came to and we met at De
Mohrenschildt's house and he asked me to return home. I, of course, did
not want a divorce but I told him it would be better to get a divorce
rather than to continue living and quarreling this way. After all this
is only a burden on a man if two people live together and fight. I
simply wanted to show him, too, that I am not a toy. That a woman is a
little more complicated. That you cannot trifle with her.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything at that time about how he should treat
you if you returned?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I told him if he did not change his character, then
it would become impossible to continue living with him. Because if
there should be such quarrels continuously that would be crippling for
the children.
Mr. RANKIN. What did he say to that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Then he said that it would be--it was very hard for him.
That he could not change. That I must accept him, such as he was. And
he asked me to come back home with him right on that day but he left
feeling bad because I did not go and remained with my friend.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you say about accepting him as he was?
Mrs. OSWALD. I told him I was not going to. Of course, such as he was
for me he was good, but I wanted simply for the sake of the family that
he would correct his character. It isn't that I didn't mean to say he
was good for me, I meant to say that I could stand him, but for the
sake of the children I wanted him to improve his behavior.
Mr. RANKIN. Then did he get in touch with you again?
Mrs. OSWALD. At that time there was very little room at Anna Meller's
and it was very uncomfortable and I left and went to Katya Ford whose
husband at that time happened to be out of town on business. I spent
several days with Katya Ford but then when her husband returned I did
not want to remain with her. And it was on a Sunday morning then when
I moved over to Anna Ray. Lee called me and said he wanted to see
me, that he had come by bus and he wanted to see me and he came that
evening and he cried and said that he wanted me to return home because
if I did not return he did not want to continue living. He said he
didn't know how to love me in any other way and that he will try to
change.
Mr. RANKIN. While you were at Mrs. Ford's did she go to the hospital?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I think that you are confused--this was Elena Hall
in Fort Worth, she was ill and went to the hospital. It is not very
interesting to hear all that. Somewhat boring.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the manner in which Lee brought up the idea
of your going to Russia alone?
Mrs. OSWALD. Quite simply he said it was very hard for him here. That
he could not have a steady job. It would be better for me because I
could work in Russia. That was all.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you understand when he suggested it that he proposed
that you go and he stay?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Now, I think I know why he had in mind to start his
foolish activity which could harm me but, of course, at that time he
didn't tell me the reason. It is only now that I understand it. At that
time when I would ask him he would get angry because he couldn't tell
me.
Mr. RANKIN. What would you say to him at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. I told him at that time that I am agreeable to going if he
could not live with me. But he kept on repeating that he wanted to live
with me but that it would be better for me, but when I wanted to know
the reason he would not tell me.
Mr. RANKIN. Is there something that you have learned since that caused
you to believe that this suggestion was related to trying to provide
for you or to be sure that you wouldn't be hurt by what he was going to
do?
Mrs. OSWALD. At that time I didn't know this. I only saw that he was
in such a state that he was struggling and perhaps did not understand
himself. I thought that I was the reason for that.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he have a job then?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you feel that you were getting along on what he was
earning?
Mrs. OSWALD. Of course.
Mr. RANKIN. Were you urging him to earn more so that he could provide
more for the family?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. We had enough.
Mr. RANKIN. You were not complaining about the way you were living?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I think that my friends had thought, and it was also
written in the newspapers that we lived poorly because for Americans
$200 appears to be very little. But I have never lived in any very
luxurious way and, therefore, for me this was quite sufficient. Some of
the others would say, "well here, you don't have a car or don't have
this or that." But for me it was sufficient. Sometimes Lee would tell
me I was just like my friends, that I wanted to have that which they
had. That I preferred them to him because they give me more, but that
is not true.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you understand when he suggested you return to Russia
that he was proposing to break up your marriage?
Mrs. OSWALD. I told him that I would go to Russia if he would give me a
divorce, but he did not want to give me a divorce.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say why?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said that if he were to give me a divorce that that
would break everything between us, which he didn't want. That he wanted
to keep me as his wife, but I told him that if he wants to remain in
the United States I want to be free in Russia.
Mr. RANKIN. During this period did he appear to be more excited and
nervous?
Mrs. OSWALD. Not particularly, but the later time he was more excited
and more nervous but it was quite a contrast between the way he was in
Russia.
Mr. RANKIN. By the later time that you just referred to what do you
mean? Can you give us some approximate date?
Mrs. OSWALD. When we went to Neely Street.
The CHAIRMAN. I think this is a good time to take our luncheon recess
now. So, we will adjourn until 2 o'clock.
Mrs. OSWALD. Thank you.
(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)