Institute of Technology astronomical observation project, Project
Stargazer. The object of this project was to make observations via
a stabilized telescope mounted atop of a gondola suspended from
a high altitude balloon. I was the USAF project officer and Dr
J. Allen Hynek was the scientific advisor. I worked very closely
with Dr Hynek over a period of five years from 1958 to 1963. Dr
Hynek would typically spend a half day working on Stargazer and
then the rest of the day participating as one of the consultants
on the UFO study, Project Bluebook, that was also conducted at
Wright-Patterson AFB. Dr Hynek, as the scientific advisor to
Stargazer, was very familiar with the techniques and capabilities
of the Air Force high altitude balloon program. Dr Hynek once
approached me and we discussed at length, the possibility that
Air Force high altitude balloons were responsible for many UFO
sightings. We ended the conversation in agreement that the
balloons probably accounted for many of the UFO sightings. In
other conversations Dr Hynek always gave me the impression that
there were very few UFO sightings that could not be explained by
good scientific investigation. At no time did Dr Hynek mention
or discuss the alleged “Roswell Incident”. I was therefore
“flabbergasted” when Dr Hynek appeared to believe that some of
these sightings were of an extraterrestrial origin.
I am not part of any conspiracy to withhold or provide misleading
information to the United States Government or the American public.
There is no classified information that I am withholding related to
this inquiry and I have never been threatened by U.S. Government
persons concerning refraining from talking about this matter.
SIGNED: Sworn to and subscribed before me,
an individual authorized to administer
oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995,
at
[Signature] [Signature]
Joseph W. Kittinger, Jr., Col, USAF (Ret) James McAndrew, 1st Lt. USAFR
WITNESS(s):
[Signature: Sherry Kittinger]
STATEMENT OF WITNESS
Place Date: 31 May 95
I, Roland H. Lutz, CMSgt, USAF, (Ret), hereby state that James
McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR on this date at my
home and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the
following statement. This was done without having been subjected to
any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.
I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1947 and transferred to the U.S. Air
Force in 1958. In June, 1958 I was assigned to the flight surgeon’s
office at Holloman AFB, NM as an Aero Medical Technician. I served
several tours in Southeast Asia and retired from the Air Force in
1974 as an Aero Medical Superintendent.
On May 20–21, 1959 I was assigned to provide medical coverage for a
balloon training mission that took off from Holloman AFB and ended
with a crash near Roswell, NM. Capt Joe Kittinger was training
two other pilots, Capt Fulgham and Capt Kaufman. I followed the
balloon in an ambulance during the night and at daybreak I followed
the balloon in an H-21 helicopter. Just after daybreak I saw the
balloon crash and the three pilots were dumped form the gondola.
I immediately informed the helicopter pilot and we landed in a
field on which cattle were grazing. I recall the rancher was upset
because the helicopter was frightening his cattle and some cattle
had gotten out of the field.
I assesed the injuries to the pilots and recommended they be taken
immediately to the closest hospital which was at Walker AFB,
apprximately 5 to 10 minutes away by helicopter. Capt Fulgham’s
head was swelling due to a hemotoma he received when the gondola
struck him. Capt Kittinger was cut on the face and was bleeding.
Capt Kaufman was uninjured. At Walker I remember a telephone
conversation with a flight surgeon who told me to “go home and
sleep it off”. He apparently did not believe my story of three
Air Force pilots that were victims of a balloon crash. However,
I was able to convince him and he treated Capt Fulgham and Capt
Kittinger. While at the hospital Capt Fulgham’s head had swelled
enormously and his eyes were beginning to turn black.
I do not recall that anything unusual occurred at the hospital
at Walker. I remember the three pilots sitting on a bench in
the hallway waiting to be treated. I do not remember that Capt
Kittinger was involved in an altercation with anyone while at the
hospital, if he had, I would have known about it. Capt Kittinger
was concerned with getting medical treatment for his injured crew
member, Capt Fulgham, and returning to Holloman. I also do not
recall a black NCO accompanying Capt Kittinger while we were at
the hospital. I do not remember a nurse assisting in the treatment
of Capt Fulgham or Capt Kittinger. I also do not remember a male
civilian or any personnel or vehicles from a mortuary, and I do not
recall any remains in body bags in the hospital.
I was present the entire time when the events described here took
place. I am certain that this event had nothing to do with “space
aliens” or any other irregular activity that would require a cover
up. It was a balloon crash and nothing else.
I am not part of any conspiracy to withhold or provide misleading
information to the United States Government or the American public.
There is no classified information that I am withholding related to
this inquiry and I have never been threatened by U.S. Government
persons concerning refraining from talking about this matter.
SIGNED: Subscribed and sworn before me, an
individual authorized to administer
oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995,
at
[Signature] [Signature]
Roland H. Lutz, CMSgt, USAF, James McAndrew, 1st Lt, USAFR
(Ret)
WITNESS(s):
[Signature]
Harry C. Aderholt, Brig. Gen., USAF (Ret)
STATEMENT OF WITNESS
Place Date: 20 June 95
I, Raymond A. Madson, Lt Col, USAF (Ret), hereby state that James
McAndrew was identified as a Lieutenant, USAFR on this date at my
place of employment and do hereby, voluntarily and of my own free
will, make the following statement. This was done without having
been subjected to any coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful
inducement.
I was born, raised, and presently reside in New Mexico. I graduated
from New Mexico A&M College in 1954. I entered the Air Force in
1955 and was assigned a short time later to the Aero Medical
Laboratory at Wright Patterson AFB, OH. At the Aero Medical
Laboratory I was assigned to the Escape Section as a project
officer and test parachutist. During this time I also had extensive
participation in various aspects of the space program and worked
on the highly classified U-2 project. I served a tour of duty in
Alaska and at the School of Aerospace Medicine at Brooks AFB,
TX, before being reassigned to the Aero Medical Laboratory at
Wright Patterson. I retired in from the Air Force in 1979 and I am
currently and Environmental Specialist for the State of New Mexico.
The first project that I was assigned at Wright Patterson was
Project 7218, later changed to Project 7222. This project was first
known by the name High Dive and then was known as Excelsior. The
object of this project was to study the free fall characteristics
of anthropomorphic dummies from balloons at altitudes of 50,000
to 100,000 feet. Following satisfactory dummy drops, Capt Joe
Kittinger made a series of high altitude parachute jumps that
culminated with a jump from 102,800 feet.
I assumed the duties of Project Officer for the dummy drops in the
spring of 1956. I made numerous trips to Holloman AFB, NM, the
site of the drops, from 1956 until the end of the project in 1959
(dummies were also dropped for this project at Wright Patterson
AFB by personnel from the Parachute Branch). I wrote two technical
reports that described the project in considerable detail. The
type of anthropomorphic dummy used primarily was manufactured by
Alderson Laboratories but we also used Sierra Manufacturing type
dummies. Both of these dummies are shown in the technical reports.
The Alderson dummy had facial features that were not life-like
and ears that were not well defined. The dummies were outfitted
with flight suits of various colors, fuchsia, olive drab, and sage
green (a shade of gray). We chose the Alderson dummy because it was
relatively inexpensive as compared to the Sierra dummy.
We encountered considerable difficulty dropping the dummies from
the balloons. I designed the rack that suspended the dummies, two
at a time, from the balloon. On numerous occasions the dummies were
fouled during the release sequence and the dummy rode a “streamer”
all the way to the ground. Other times malfunctions occurred that
caused the two dummies and the entire rack assembly to descend to
the ground as one package. Both of these instances are described in
the technical reports.
I participated in at least two dummy recoveries. The meteorologist
from the Balloon Branch, Duke Gildenberg, would determine the best
place to launch the balloons depending on the prevailing weather
conditions. Duke also predicted, with considerable accuracy,
where the dummies would impact. I specifically recall a dummy I
recovered near the Jornada test range, between Leasburg and Organ,
NM. During this recovery I drove a weapons carrier and I was only
able to locate one of the dummies. I never found out what happened
to the other one. The next recovery I remember was on a ranch just
southwest of Roswell. We were given directions to the area by the
balloon branch personnel who had been contacted by a rancher. The
equipment had reward notices taped to them to aid in recovery. We
went to the Smith ranch. I remember the name because I went to New
Mexico A&M with the rancher. I knew him as Smitty. We searched that
day from horseback and could not find the dummies. The following
day we resumed our search from horseback and again could not
find the dummies. I also recall that Smitty asked us for some of
the parachute material so he could make a shirt. We dropped many
dummies from the balloons and I know many were not immediately
recovered, but most were.
I served for twenty five years in the Air Force and most of those
years were in the aero medical field. I participated in the space
program and the highly classified early stages of U-2 program.
Never during this time were “aliens” or “flying saucers” a part of
any project. There were, however, countless achievements by the
Air Force in aerospace medicine that were the result of dedicated
scientific research. It seems likely to me that someone could have
mistaken our anthropomorphic dummies for something that they were
not.
I am not part of any conspiracy to withhold or provide misleading
information to the United States Government or the American public.
There is no classified information that I am withholding related to
this inquiry and I have never been threatened by U.S. Government
persons concerning refraining from talking about this matter.
SIGNED: Sworn to and subscribed before me,
an individual authorized to administer
oaths, this 25th day of May, 1995,
at
[Signature] [Signature]
Raymond A. Madson, Lt Col, James McAndrew, 1st Lt, USAFR
USAF (Ret)
WITNESS(s):
STATEMENT OF WITNESS
Date: 25 April 1996 Place: Aztec, NM
I Frank B. Nordstrom, M. D., hereby state that James McAndrew,
was identified as a Captain, USAFR on this date at my home and do
hereby, voluntarily and of my own free will, make the following
statement. This was done without having been subjected to any
coercion, unlawful influence or unlawful inducement.
I was on active duty in the US Air Force and stationed at Walker
AFB, Roswell, NM from July 1951 until June 1953. During that time I
was a pediatrician assigned to the base hospital. Following my tour
of duty with the Air Force I attended the University of Colorado as
a resident in pediatrics. In July 1954 I relocated to Farmington,
NM and began a private pediatric practice. I retired from private
practice in 1987 and became the Medical Director of the San Juan
Regional Medical Center, which is also located in Farmington, NM.
In 1989 I retired from that position and presently reside in Aztec,
NM.
I have been shown two transcripts of interviews where an individual
named Glenn Dennis described conversations and visits he claims
he had with a pediatrician in the late 1940s or early 1950s in
Farmington, NM. According to these interviews, Mr Dennis also
claims that this pediatrician had previously served at the hospital
at Walker AFB/Roswell AAF. Since I am the only physician in
Farmington, NM who previously served at the Walker AFB/Roswell
AAF hospital, I believe I am the person he is referring to in
these interviews. I am confident of this because I know I was the
first pediatrician to practice in Farmington, which when I arrived
in 1954, was a small community of approximately 8,000 people. I
remained the sole pediatrician there for approximately 20 years and
I know most, if not all, of the physicians in the area.
Even though I believe I am the person Mr Dennis referred to in the
interviews, I do not remember him. I can state with reasonable
certainty that I cannot recall any conversations with him, and he,
to my knowledge, never visited me in Farmington, NM, in Colorado,
or anyplace else. I have been told, however, that a person named
Glenn Dennis operated a drugstore in the late 1950s-early 1960s,
just outside Farmington, in Aztec, NM. But I do not recall any
contact with him there either.
While I was stationed at Walker AFB, I do not recall any incidents
that may explain the information Mr Dennis provided in the
interviews. To my knowledge there was only one fatal aircraft
accident during my tour of duty and that accident involved a Walker
AFB based aircraft in the United Kingdom. I was not involved in any
aspect of that accident. I also do not recall any other incidents
such as automobile accidents or house fires that may be the source
of this information. Nor do I recall a nurse named Lt Naiomi Selff
or a nurse named Capt “Slats” Wilson. While at Walker AFB I did not
witness or hear rumors of anything that involved flying saucers,
aliens, or anything else of an extraterrestrial nature.
I am not part of a conspiracy to withhold information from either
the US government or the American public, there is no classified
information that I am withholding related to this inquiry and I
have not been threatened by US government persons concerning not
talking about this matter.
SIGNED: Sworn to and subscribed before me,
an individual authorized to administer
oaths, this 25th day of April 1996 at
Aztec, NM
[Signature] [Signature]
Frank B. Nordstrom, M.D. James McAndrew, Capt, USAFR
WITNESS:
Appendix C
Transcript of Interview with
Gerald Anderson[*]
Alleged firsthand witness to
“Crash Site” Two
(allegedly 175 miles northwest of Roswell)
[*] Excerpted from raw footage used to prepare the video,
_Recollections of Roswell Part II_, (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO
Research, 1993).
A: We drove down to the Plains of San Agustin which is west of Socorro,
New Mexico in the Magdalena, Datil, area. We were down there looking
for banded and moss agate, which according to my uncle Ted and my
cousin Victor was prevalent in the area. My brother being an amateur
rock hound had wanted to get some of this. That was a way of showing us
around the area. They had relatives down in Magdalena that they wanted
to introduce us to.
So we had gone down there and we got down in the Horse Springs area and
had driven off onto the plains down an old rutted road for, oh, a mile
or so and it seemed like a long ways. We parked the car, got out of the
car and walked down a hillside.
There’s a semi-forest, I guess you could say. It had pinon trees and
scrub oak and stuff like that on it and we walked—well, not scrub oak,
but cedar—and walked down the hillside into an arroyo, a dry wash, and
then walked south down a dry wash toward where the agates were supposed
to be at.
As we came around a bend in the arroyo that had pinon and cedar
trees growing, we were able to see farther ahead down the arroyo and
on the next ridge line there was a large silver disc shaped object
was embedded in this side of the ridge line ... there was debris
and wreckage strewn about the area mainly this thing was intact. I
would estimate its size from an adult perspective to something like
35 feet in diameter. I’ve heard other people who were there say they
thought it was like 50 feet. But as an adult, I would say about 35
feet in diameter, quite large. When we got up to it there were four
bodies there ... not human, there was two of them that were obviously
dead, one of them was obviously very badly injured, and one of them
apparently suffered no ill effects ... or it didn’t appear to be
injured and was ambulatory, was mobile. It was just setting there next
to the one...
Q: Were they right next to the vehicle?
A: Right next to it. Right under the edge of it. And this craft had
apparently come in from the east and bounced off one ridge line,
plowing through this arroyo area and then crashed into the ridge line
and embedded itself. They were sitting back under the edge, it was kind
of tilted up like this and they were sitting back under the edge here.
And I’m assuming that this one creature that was all right had laid
this material on the ground but it looked like unrolled tinfoil that
these other three creatures were laying on. Like it was trying—like
you do a person in shock, you know, a put him on a blanket, that kind
of thing. And apparently it had some boxes there around it and had
apparently been trying to give first aid or help these other creatures
when we first got there.
As we approached, the creature drew back like this, like it was in
fear, like we were going to hurt it. And it wasn’t very long, you know,
we were trying to communicate with it, the adults were. It seemed
to calm down and just sat there and kind of looked back and forth,
watching them, apparently trying to figure out what was going on...
Q: What did it look like, a little bit more.
A: These creatures, all of them, were, oh, about four foot tall, four
and a half feet tall. They had very large heads that were shaped larger
on the top and they kind of tapered down, not to a real sharp point
but just tapered down where they were thin. And they had very large,
very large, oval shaped or almond shaped, I guess you could say, black
eyes. The head... They were so shiny, they had almost a bluish tint to
them when the light reflected off of them. Their skin coloration, the
best way that I could describe that is it was kind of a bluish tinted
milky-white. It looked like someone in shock. And the ones that were
laying on the ground were really—really looked more that way, more blue
in the light, you know...
Q: How about ears, nose, mouth?
A: No, there were no visible ears on the creatures except like—if you
was just to cover your ear like this to where there was just a rise
there and then a hole without, you know, your ear lobe and the rest of
the area...
Q: How about nose?
A: It was—the nose was very, very small, almost imperceptible. It’s
like two holes, straight in; and the lips were just a straight line. It
was like a cut and you couldn’t see, just the lips like we have, it was
just a slit. And...
Q: What hair color? Sound?
A: Pardon?
Q: What hair color?
A: There was no hair. They were completely bald.
Q: And no sounds?
A: I never heard a sound one, not out of any of the creatures including
the one that was...
Q: Did you see fingers?
A: Yes, they had fingers like this. They didn’t have a little finger.
They just had the thumb and three extra digits except the center digit
was longer and the other two were about the same size. They were very
long and slender and looked very delicate and I made the statement
before and I’ll make it again, I think he would have made an excellent
violinist because of the structure of their hands.
They were wearing one piece suits. All of them were dressed exactly the
same. It was sort of a real shiny silverish gray color.
Q: No zippers, buttons?
A: No, I saw no zippers, no buttons.
Q: Insignias?
A: No, no insignias. The only thing that was different, you know, and
they all had this, but the only that was different from the silvery
gray thing, the suit, was that down like a seam line, like there was
a seam on his shoulder and around the collar it was trimmed in what
appeared to be maroon, like cording.
Then the suits were continuous with their footwear. We could see right
this area down, it seemed to be less pliable then it was up here, like
this was a stiffer area, like they were boots or shoes or something.
But they were all dressed exactly the same.
Q: Okay. So you and your family are talking back and forth, wondering
what was going on, what did your family say? I mean...
A: Well...
Q: ...did they say anything?
A: Yes, my brother, one of his first remarks I heard him say him say,
“That’s a god damn spaceship.” You know there were bodies up there and,
you know, I was told not to go up there, which I didn’t. And...
Q: How old was your brother at the time?
A: He was in his early twenties, I think, 20, 21, something like that.
Q: He was a lot older than you were?
A: Oh, yes, considerably.
When we got up there I kind of meandered off to one side. This thing
was cocked up and I was standing here, the bodies were here, and
everybody else was kind of down here except my cousin Victor was over
here playing and looking in this gaping hole on the side of this disk.
And it was shaped just like a discus except for a round dome was up on
top and there was this big gaping gash in there. We could see inside
and it looked like a double hull.
Q: How big—explain it? The gash.
A: The dome?
Q: No, the gash.
A: Well, it covered the greater majority from the center of the craft
out. It was just like a gaping hole in there. I mean I’m thinking, you
know, it’s like about 32, 35 feet in diameter so we’re talking about 17
feet maybe. Most of that one side was ripped open like that. You could
see inside and you could see another double hull, like—in there. And
there were just rows of components that was on there.
And there were lights that flashed on and off. Some of them were steady
and some were flashing. There was a lot of debris and stuff hanging out
of the hole. There was evidence that there apparently had been fire. It
looked like it had been burned along the edge there. The gash...
Q: Now this wasn’t a gash that could have been caused by the thing
coming in for the ground? It wasn’t at the leading edge of the vehicle?
A: No, no. This was in the side like—it almost appeared it was
elliptical. It almost appeared as if something the same shape as the
disk we were looking at had hit that same—you know, like it hit the
disk and left an imprint that pretty closely approximated the outside
diameter of the disk itself. And it appeared to be caved in looking,
kind of like it hit them like this and it just crumpled and caved in
and ripped it open.
Q: Okay, so you’re there, you take all this in, everybody is mystified.
What were the circumstances outside? Hot, cold?
A: Very, very hot. Incredible to me, being the first time in New Mexico
and coming from back east. I had dry heaves. It was like the inside of
an oven. It was unbelievable to me. You know, the odd part about this
was that the closer you got to it, the cooler it was. And standing
under it in the shade there next to these creatures’ bodies, it was
like refrigerated air conditioning. And...
Q: Did you feel air coming out of this thing?
A: No, it was just like it was (inaudible).
And I remember reaching up and putting my hand on the side of it but I
think I was afraid I was going to hit my head because there was enough
room for me as small child, you know, I was approximately the same size
as these creatures, to walk up under there and stand there but I kind
of did like that, put my hand up against this thing.
Q: What did it feel like?
A: It was ice cold. It felt like it just came out of a freezer.
Q: Was it smooth? Was it rough?
A: It was very smooth. It had a very smooth texture to it. It was
obviously made out of metal. It was very solid and it was very cold,
ice cold.
And there was a smell in the area. It smelled volatile, acrid, like
acetone. And that seemed to be coming out of that gash, that smell. But
the closer you got to this thing, the cooler it was so, you know, I
kind of remained there.
And I guess that while they were over here, my father and my uncle Ted
and my brother. Uncle Ted was trying to talk to this thing in Spanish
and of course it didn’t understand a word he said. And dad tried to
talk to it and then they tried, you know, sign language and that didn’t
work.
And I don’t know, for some reason, I just—I reached down and touched
it, this one that was laying next to me. When I touched it I realized
and I jumped back. It scared me. It startled me because I suddenly
realized that these weren’t dolls. I thought they were plastic dolls.
And I—you know, it was still in my mind that these were dolls until I
touched it and then I realized, you know, this was a dead thing.
I’d seen dead relatives before and unfortunately made a mistake one
time in touching a relative that was in a casket and I just knew this
was a dead thing and it scared me, and I ran around behind my father
and my uncle and this thing was sitting there on the ground and it kept
looking back and forth. And it just had its hands like this in its lap,
and just kept looking back and forth between the three of them and—like
it was trying to understand.
And all of a sudden it just turned and looked right straight at me
between my uncle Ted and myself. And this is when—it was just like an
explosion of things in my head, things... I started, you know, feeling,
just terrible depression and loneliness and fear and just, you know,
awful, awful feelings that just suddenly burst in to my mind there. I
don’t know if that meant that it was communicating with me and I was
the only one there that it could communicate with because I was a kid.
I don’t know.
I turned and ran and I ran across the arroyo and up on the area that it
had bounced off of during the crash. I was just standing there looking
down at this scene, you know, at my family, and off in the distance I
could see cattle grazing. I could see a windmill and could see dust
trails out on the plains out there.
And, oh, I was there for a while and then I came back down. I guess we
were there—Victor was, when I got back down there Victor was up in the
craft and Ted yelled at him to get out of there and Glen went over and
grabbed him by the belt and jerked him around...
Q: That’s your brother?
A: Yes.
And jerked him off, says, “Get out because this thing may explode and
kill us all,” you know, and then of course he went prowling around in
there.
I was kind of standing off to one side looking. That’s why I knew that
there was—I can look off these rocks that I was standing on and look
right into this thing. That’s why I knew, you know, about the lights
and the components and stuff.
And then I heard other people talking. I turned and there was a group
of people coming up the arroyo from out on the plains from the south.
They had come up there and of course they walked up and was talking.
Q: How many?
A: There was an older man and five younger students.
Q: Boys, girls?
A: Three boys and two girls. And they were all, you know, introducing,
talking to my father and my uncle and my brother...
Q: What did the older one look like?
A: He was a very tall man, a very big man. He was wearing a pith helmet
when he first came up, one of those kind of explorer helmets. And he
was bald and I know that because he had taken it off and he had, you
know, wiped it with a handkerchief and put it back on. He was a balding
man. And he had a round face. He was very ruddy complected. A big man,
and he apparently was a doctor because they kept calling him doctor and
it was my understanding that it was an archeological group that was out
there on some kind of summer thing. And they talked and he apparently
was able to speak several foreign languages and he tried to talk to
this creature several times in different languages, again to no avail.
Q: How did they happen to be there? Had he seen the thing...
A: Well, they claim that they saw—they said they saw this thing come
down the night before in flight, you know, and they thought it was a
meteorite and they had talked about well, early in the morning, you
know, we’ll go over and see this, where this meteor came down, because
that’s what they thought it was.
And when the sun came up the next morning, you know, and they got
about their business, got up and somebody looked over and said, you
know, they saw this shiny metal and stuff across the plains there and
they realized it wasn’t a meteorite, it may have been an airplane that
had crashed so they all decided to go over there and see if there was
anybody left alive, you know, that was hurt that needed help.
Q: They had driven over?
A: No, they walked over apparently, the way I understand it. And it’s
quite a ways across that plain so it had to take a very long time
to do this or they may have had a vehicle, I don’t know. That’s an
assumption, I think, on my part, where they walked.
Q: Okay. So they’re around...
A: But they came across...
Q: ...with the family...
A: ...the plains. I don’t know why I said that. I’m not sure if they
drove or not. I didn’t hear any cars.
Q: And then somebody else shows up?
A: Yes, they were down just, oh, 15 maybe 20 minutes tops, you know.
And they were picking up things, some of the students. And this Dr.
Buskirk, that they called him, this one girl went up and said, “Look,
doctor, wouldn’t this make a beautiful ring?” And she was holding what
looked like a red rod, a red tube that was some kind of silvery-red.
And he kind of snapped at her, you know, “Put that down because you
don’t know what that thing is. That thing could hurt you. Don’t pick
this stuff up.”
And she kind of said, “Well, yes, okay, doctor.” And then he went back
to what he was doing and she walked away and put it in her pocket.
And a lot of them were doing this, sort of picking up things and
feeling things. I was picking up things and feeling things. It was all
kinds of material and metal, stuff like that. I heard it, well, we all
heard it, the sound of a motor coming, like a truck. And I went back up
the incline area to the ridge line and I could see out there, there was
a truck coming up. It was an old pick-up truck. It was sort of a beige
color, a tan colored van with an antenna on it. And it stopped and this
guy got out and he’s wearing brown clothes. He’s got boots on and he’s
wearing a straw hat, just like the kind that Harry Truman always wore,
and he had wire rimmed glasses. He was a big man and he looked exactly
like Harry Truman to me. You know, I’d seen him in the Movietone News...
Q: He was president then.
A: Yes, I was well aware who Harry Truman was. Everybody was. He was
kind of a hero, you know, and he just kind of looked like him except
bigger, bigger. You know, I don’t think he—and he didn’t look as old
either. His hair was kind of light gray.
And he walked over there and they got to talking, you know, with
everybody and he told them that he worked out on the plains out there
and that he made maps and that he had seen the wreckage from out there
on the plains and he saw the people and he thought it was a plane wreck
and, you know, that something was going on and he came over to see.
And he hadn’t been there but just a very, very few minutes when we
heard all kinds of motors and engines straining and stuff. And here
comes a military car with a big white star on the side of it followed
by a six-by which is a military truck with a kind of canvas wagon, kind
of a canvas thing over it and it’s full of soldiers. They’ve got guns.
And right behind them is what we call a four-by which is like a medium
sized jeep/truck situation and it had two big high whip antennas, all
kinds of radio gear in the back and a guy back there with ear phones
and stuff on and he’s, you know, working these radios. And they all
pulled up and stopped.
Q: Which direction did they come from, do you know?
A: They came from the north, from the Horse Springs area, right...
Q: So they could have come off the highway there...
A: Oh, yes. I’m sure that’s exactly how they got there. They come off
the highway, the same way we did. Well, in the meantime, when they
stopped, this black soldier, this sergeant, the reason I know he was
a sergeant, my brother told me he was, and he got out of this car and
then a guy got out on the other side and he was a, Glen said he was a
captain, he told me later he was a captain and this guy had orange and
red hair. So all the soldiers and them came running over there pointing
guns at people, telling them, “Get away, get away, get away,” you know?
And when this creature saw these people, the military, he went nuts. He
went into an absolute panic, worse than what he did when he saw us.
Q: Did he move around or just his eyes or...
A: He just, he just...
Q: Oh, okay.
A: ...went crazy. And it was like...
Q: Like he was scared?
A: Yes, like he was looking for a place to run and hide.
Q: But he never got up?
A: He never got up. He never left the beings that were next to him.
And this red headed officer, this guy was a real butt hole. He made all
the threats. He threatened to have people shot.
Q: Everybody?
A: He went, “Get away, get away,” you know, “We’ll shoot. Get away
from there. This is a military secret.” You know, just screaming and
hollering. He told my uncle and my father that if they didn’t want to
spend the rest of their life in prison they would never say anything
about what they saw there, if they ever wanted to see us kids again,
they’d take the kids away. They’d never see the kids, you know, meaning
me and Victor. That we’d better keep our mouths shut because if we did
not, this is what was going to happen. They were threatening people and
pushing people...
Q: The students as well and Dr. Buskirk?
A: Oh, yes. They were hustling everybody. And one of the soldiers
pushed my uncle. He had a rifle like this and he shoved him back like
that. Well, that was something you didn’t do to my uncle Ted. Ted had
a violent temper. And he grabbed the rifle and reached over top and
smacked this guy and dropped him right there. And Ted would go out and
fight, heck, this guy’s a cowboy. He’ll hit you in a minute.
And of course when he did that there was bolts opened and I guess
cocking, they were cocking their rifles. They were pointing guns at
people and everybody Buskirk and Glen and dad grabbed him, you know,
pulled him back and got him away. “No, don’t, Ted, they’re going to
shoot. Don’t do that.” You know, trying to stop this. And I think we
came very close to having someone shot.
Then they really started threatening, you know, and they...
Q: Did the redhead do all the talking, pretty much?
A: Pretty much. Except once in a while the sergeant would, you know,
chime in and make statements like that to other people in response to
the redhead. But mainly it was the redhead...
Q: Was there a name tag?
A: Yes, sir, there was. His name was Armstrong. And I’m not sure if I
know that from having read it or know that from remembering it and now
being able to read it in my memory, or if someone said that to me. But
his name was Armstrong, it was right here on his uniform.
Q: But he chased you guys away pretty quick?
A: Yes, yes, he did.
And they herded us up like cattle and we were just up the arroyo, back
in the direction we came from, over the protest of this Dr. Buskirk who
said, “No, no, we’ve got to go the other way. We came from over there.”
“I don’t care where you came from, get your ass up the arroyo.”
And they ran us up the arroyo and...
Q: So you get to your car again?
A: Oh, right.
Now they took us up the arroyo and just over the hill we came down,
they broke us off and moved us up the hill.
Now this whole time, no one has ever frisked us down, no one has ever
checked our pockets to see if we picked up any of this material and
this girl, Agnes, still had that stuff in her pocket and some of the
other students had stuff. To my knowledge, up to that point, they had
not been searched. Whether they did so afterward, I don’t know. They
never searched us, ever. They ran us back up the hill and when we got
to where the car was parked, where dad had parked the car up there,
there’s a jeep with a guy sitting in the back and there is a mounted
machine gun in the back of this jeep and all of these soldiers.
The jeep pulls out, we’re told to get in the car, we follow the jeep,
and the soldiers go with us all the way back out to the highway. When
we get back out to the highway, they set us right there. They wouldn’t
let us out of the car. They wouldn’t let us move forward. I don’t know
whether they were making a decision or what.
When we got out to the highway, this place was absolutely full of
military personnel, military equipment. There was airplanes sitting out
there that they had landed on the highway.
Q: Did you see any airplanes when you were back at the site?
A: Yes, there was airplanes in the sky but nobody thought much about.
You know, I didn’t think anything about it. I was used to airplanes
being in the sky, having been raised in Indianapolis, Indiana, the home
of the Norden bombsight, you know, the sky was always full of military
aircraft at night.
And when we get back on to the highway, there’s observation aircraft,
you know, high winged aircraft, and there’s one, of what I know now to
be a C-47 setting there. And how we didn’t hear that land is beyond me
and how he landed—well, of course, I guess you could land it if you’re
a good pilot out there as there were no poles or anything.
And it was—they had torn the fence down on the north side of the highway
and all this equipment was setting back up there. The plane was up
there and they were taking stuff out of the plane. There was military
ambulances and there were trucks with—like wreckers, cranes on them.
And there was tankers, like maybe had fuel or water in them. There was
just—everywhere you looked there was military.
Q: A major recovery operation?
A: Yes, it looked like an invasion force. It really did.
And they were all wearing these light khaki uniforms. They didn’t look
like, you know, olive drabs. They were light khaki and they all had the
same patch over their—that kind of blue funny patch with the circles on
it, was on his shoulder.
And a lot...
Q: Do you have a clue as to where they came from? Did your brother or
your uncle?
A: No. I don’t know where they came from. No, I don’t think anybody
ever ascertained that.
There were a lot of MP patches and some of them were wearing
nightsticks off of these webbed utility belts. They had night sticks
and they had .45’s in holsters, you know, the automatics, full
holsters. And these were the people that were giving most of the orders.
They had the road barricaded off out there and we sat there for a very
long time and, you know, we were getting thirsty and everything and we
asked if we could go back to Horse Springs to get some water.
“Oh, no, no. You can’t through there.”
And right after that, they said, “Now you just turn around and you head
out of here now and you go to Socorro,” and this is the redhead again,
“Keep your mouths shut. Just keep going and don’t look back.”
Well, as we drove away, you know, dad, “The hell with it, we’ll go to
Magdalena. We’ll get water in Magdalena.” You know, because that’s
where John Trujillo lived, a relative of Ted’s.
And so as we drove away, I was looking out the back window and I could
see Dr. Buskirk and these kids and that guy, the guy in the pick-up was
standing there and this Dr. Buskirk was doing just like this in this
redheaded officer’s face and he kept pointing back behind him and I
guess that meant, you know, we’ve got to go back that way and he was
fed up with this guy or something and he was shaking his finger in his
face when they were yelling at each other and that’s pretty much the
last I saw of the whole situation. I don’t know what happened after
that because we just kept going.
(END)
Transcript of Interview with
W. Glenn Dennis[*]
(Alleged firsthand witness to
events at the Roswell AAF hospital)
[*] W. Glenn Dennis, interview with Karl T. Pflock, November 2,
1992.
Q: You started getting calls from the base mortuary officer is that
right, some time in the afternoon on some day in July [1947].
A: Right after noon, yeah.
Q: Do you recall, was that before the story appeared in the [Roswell
Daily] Record?
A: I don’t know. I’m sure it was. I can’t honestly say, but I don’t
think the paper came out until the next day, I don’t think. I’m just
assuming that.
Q: I understand. When things like that happen to me way after the fact
I try to remember, and I wasn’t sure if you had any recollection or
not. It was the base mortuary officer who called you, not any of the
MDs out there.
A: No.
Q: He was just, the mortuary officer was just the guy...
A: We used to have a standing joke. What did you do that was so bad
they made you the mortuary officer.
Q: Exactly.
A: He wasn’t a doctor or anything, but he was an officer and he was
probably some old boy they was trying to figure out something to do
with.
We used to all have them come in, even the officer himself, say, “God,
I didn’t know I screwed up that bad.”
Q: Was this a guy you’d worked with before? Somebody you knew real well?
A: No. Those guys come and go.
Q: I realize that. You don’t remember what his name was or anything
like that?
A: No. I’m like Bob [Shirkey]. I think if I would see it or heard it
or something I might. Those guys, they were in and out. The mortuary
officer, usually they would appoint some sergeant or somebody. The
only time the doctors were involved is when you’d have an embalming
inspection or dress inspection where the doctors came in and examined
the body to make sure everything was right. You had another inspection
to make sure their dog tags, make sure all the medals and everything...
They always had two crews of inspectors. The doctors were only involved
in the cause of death or the autopsies or identification process,
dental charts and all that. After they did their work, then a doctor
would always come in and make sure the body was embalmed because [they]
know more about it than the other people. But they were involved
before. You know.
Q: The reason they contacted you was because Burt Ballard’s funeral
home up here had a contract with the base, right?
A: Yeah.
Q: You worked for Burt for a lot of years, didn’t you?
A: Yeah, a long time.
Q: When did you first go to work for him?
A: I went to work for him, I was hanging around the funeral home when
I was like a freshman in high school. I’d want to make some extra
money. “I’ll give you 50 cents to wash the hearse.” I knew his daughter
real well. We were all in school together. That’s where I really got
involved in the funeral home. I just kind of worked my way in it.
Q: He basically taught you the trade and all that.
A: Oh, yeah. My folks weren’t in the funeral business.
Q: The reason I was curious about it was because when I went back...
I’m one of these guys that goes to Washington and then gets fed up
and leaves and swears I’m never going to go back, and then I go
back anyway. But the last time I went back and did that, I shared a
townhouse with a guy for awhile who was a mortician from Michigan. But
he had to go through all this formal training and all this rigmarole...
A: No. That started in (inaudible). Maybe you don’t want to hear
this, but I was in the 9th grade, and this teacher was going around
and wanted us to write a composition on what we wanted to be when we
graduated from school. What were our future plans. I was kind of a wise
guy, I guess I must have been, but I said undertaker, and I don’t even
know why. All the girls squealed, so I got a little attention. Then
she said okay, if that’s what you want to do then you’ve got a week,
you bring me your composition. I want to know why you want to be an
undertaker.
So I went to the funeral home. They didn’t have any books in those days
or anything, but that’s where I went. That’s why I got involved in it,
started.
Q: How long were you in that business before you... I know you ran the
Wortley Hotel up in Lincoln [N.M.].
A: Oh, that was after I retired.
Q: Oh, I see, you retired from the mortuary business...
A: Oh, yeah. I was in the funeral business 33 years.
Q: All the time with Ballard?
A: Oh no, I had my own funeral home over in Las Cruces [N.M.], and one
in Socorro [N.M.].
Q: Oh, okay.
Speaking of that, do you know Norman Todd or his family?
A: His dad and I took the state board together. He was at Clovis
[N.M.]. Norman’s his son isn’t it?
Q: Yeah. He’s a lawyer over in Las Cruces [N.M.]. His...
A: Wasn’t his dad the funeral director in Clovis [N.M.]?
Q: I think so. The reason I know him is because Mike Cook, who is Steve
Schiff’s press secretary, and he have been friends ever since they were
in kindergarten together. It turns out that Iris Todd, I guess his
stepmother, is the niece of Loretta Proctor. So talk about small world.
You got these calls from the mortuary officer who was asking you all
these questions. We don’t have to go back through all of this. Then at
some point you decided to go out to the base. What took you to the base?
A: At some point I didn’t decide, that’s not correct. Somebody wrote
that, but I don’t think it’s right. The way I ended up out at the base
later, we had the ambulance service. The way I got it, the ambulance
service, I got a call, was an airman that was hurt. I took him to the
base. The best I remember, he wasn’t on a stretcher or anything because
we walked up the ramp and he sat up in the front seat with me. So he
weren’t real bad and weren’t dying. Anyway... This guy walked in, I
walked him in. Where I usually park the ambulance, there was a field
ambulance there. I had to go back up to the front. The airman and I
walked up the ramps. That’s why I went to the base.
Q: The hospital in those days was apparently a complex of buildings,
right?
A: Yeah. Kind of like Bob [Shirkey] said, like the officer’s club.
They’re all wooden barrack types.
Q: So the building that’s out there now, the rehab center is a
completely new building and had nothing to do with that.
A2 [Bob Shirkey]: No. Think of a long walkway, like a tunnel, attached
to the front of a series of...
Q: I know just what you’re talking about.
A: ...with a little of breezeway between each building, the best I
remember it. Isn’t that right. Bob?
A2 [Bob Shirkey]: Yeah. Here was the building and you came out the
front door and you went down this walkway, which I just said, like a
tunnel. You could see from one end to the other, but all these separate
buildings which were different wings of the hospital.
Q: This was the infirmary where you took the airman, right?
A: There were some ramps there, I think the old ramp’s still there. It
was. Anyway, that’s the kind of buildings they were. You don’t see it
today, no.
Q: I knew that the building, most of it, was new, but I wasn’t sure if
they’d built onto it...
A: That had been worked over two or three times.
Q: When you look at it looks like it’s been one of these things where
they’ve added things to it.
So you pulled around behind the infirmary, basically.
A: It was a pretty tight squeeze in there. You couldn’t get very many
cars in there.
Q: How many of those ambulances were back there?
A: There were three old box ambulances. I call them box ambulance. I
guess you call them... I wasn’t in the military so I don’t know what
all the terms were.
Q: Like these old field ambulances.
A: They’ve got the old square field ambulances, you know.
Q: The airman walked up that ramp with you. Both of you guys went
into...
A: The airman and I both went in.
Q: Did he see that stuff in...
A: He wasn’t paying any attention because he had, I had a tourniquet
and towel over his busted nose, and he went right on in.
Q: Got himself into a little trouble in town, did he?
A: Rode an old motorcycle. The reason I remember it is because he had
an old Indian motorcycle, and I’d just bought one. I paid $40 for one
and he [rode] one, and I didn’t have any fenders, and I was thinking of
maybe of...
Q: So you took him in there, and then basically after you got him taken
care of you figured you’d go look up your friend, the nurse.
Let’s get that straight.
A: Stan Friedman, I think, somebody thought that I was having a
relationship with this nurse. I was not. This girl wouldn’t even think
about going with me, and she was going strictly, when she got her
time paid back to the service she was going into an order of the nuns,
sisters, and she was going to be in education and later on she changed
to the nursing deal. The only reason she was in it, because her folks
were in debt and she went in the service to get her education. She got
her education and then she was going to pay back the church what they
owed her. Her whole thing in life was, from the day she was born, her
life was planned that she was going to be in an order.
Q: Did she ever tell you which order that was?
A: It was in St. Paul, Minnesota. That’s all I know.
Q: That’s where she was from.
A: That’s where she was born and raised. She never went out of the city
until she went to... My understanding was she never went anywhere and
she never lived anywhere. She was raised up from the time... Strictly
raised by the church. That was the only life she ever planned. She
wouldn’t date a man if her life depended on it. She’d get around and
talk and everything, but there was no way. But everybody said I was
going to marry her and... That’s bull shit.
Q: The implication was that she was cute and...
A: She was cute. I could have been interested. If I wouldn’t have
played second fiddle to the Catholic church, because that’s what she
would have been.
Q: How did you get to know her, just being out there on the base?
A: The ambulance service. You go out there, and you’ve got your splints
on a guy, you’ve got first aid, whatever, you can’t just throw them off
of your stretcher. You maybe help them... Sometimes you’re out there
two hours or three. Then while you’re waiting to get your equipment
back you sit in the coat room with the doctors and with the nurse’s
quarters. That’s where we always had our cokes and stuff.
Q: So you’d just shoot the breeze with whoever’s around.
A: You get to know these people. That’s the only way. See, she’d only
been there less than three months. Of course, I’m a crazy son of a
gun... Nearly everybody remembered her. She was a good looking little
thing, a beautiful little girl. We thought she was kind of lonely.
Q: As you well know, there’s been a major effort to try to find her.
[Skip in tape]
A: She was out here less than three months.
Q: So you went back there. Tell me what happened.
A: I started back there, and that’s when I got in trouble. I saw this
officer standing there, and I saw this debris in the back of the
ambulance. Two of them was full of debris. Like Bob [Shirkey] saw a
bunch little stuff, and there was a couple of pretty good sized.
Q: Two of the three ambulances had stuff...
A: One of them’s door was closed, but the other two... There was two
MPs standing right out, kind of just leaning up against the back of
those. I remember.
Q: Did they challenge you when you tried to go in?
A: No... Evidently because I drove up with that airman, and they just
figured whatever.
Another thing, when I was there, all the people that was there, that
nurse was the only person I saw that was permanent station. Everybody
else was all new in that whole hospital operation. Even in the coke
room, there wasn’t anybody in there that I knew. I started back and got
to the door, and I saw this...
(Pause)
We’ve been friends for years, but I don’t want to talk with him around.
Q: So the stuff you saw, you said it was not aluminum...
A: ...looked like hot stainless steel when it got hot. When you put
flame on stainless, see, I do sculpture work and all that, and I know
what the stuff looks like.
Q: Oh, you’re a sculpture? I didn’t know that?
A: Yeah, I’ve been doing it for years. I had my own foundry... I did. I
don’t do it any more. I have my stuff done. But anyway, this stuff was
a blue purplish, it looked like hot stainless steel, is what it looked
like. Steel that got hot. It didn’t look like aluminum, it wasn’t even
melted like aluminum. I don’t even think it was melted, just like a
bunch of fragments.
Q: But there were some bigger things in there besides the fragments,
right?
A: Yeah. There were was two pieces.
Anyway, do you want to go back to the nurse?
Q: Yes, please.
A: I started back, see, and this captain was standing there, and
naturally, I just thought we had a plane crash. When we had that,
we used to fill up the ambulances and everything else. It would
(inaudible) for you to have a hand here or an arm or a foot or
something. You know what I’m talking about. Then you’ve got to get
in and take all that stuff and separate it and put those bodies back
together with identification. That’s what you’ve got to do. I thought
we had a crash.
I saw this guy, I didn’t know him. He was standing there at the door.
Q: Just inside?
A: Just kind of standing like in between the door of this room up
there. I was going down the hall. I said, “Sir, it looks like we had a
plane crash. Do I need to go in and get ready for it?”
Q: This was an officer?
A: Yeah, he was a captain. I remember the bars on his [inaudible]. He
said, “Who are you?” I told him I was from the funeral home, and he
said, “Wait right there, don’t move.”
Then he came back, that’s when the two MPs came up. When the nurse came
out, we started down the hall and that’s when somebody in the back of
us said, “Bring that son of a bitch back.” That’s when the redheaded
captain asked where the sergeant came in right there. Then they took me
on out. As I was going down the hall, she came out of, like Bob said,
out of this room, and there was two guys in back of her, and they all
had towels over their face.
She saw me and she said, “Glenn, what are you doing here? Get out of
here, you’re going to get in a lot of trouble. How did you get in
here?” She said that two or three times. She was sick.
Q: This is when you were talking to that first officer?
A: Yeah. He just told the MPs to take me back to the funeral home.
Q: He had just told them that, and then she appeared at that point?
A: He told them to take me to the funeral home, and we started down the
hall, back out the hall, and that’s when she came out of another room
with these other two guys. What happened, she told me the next day,
they were all sick because those little bodies were in those sacks, and
two of them were very mangled and the smell was horrible and one was
whole and two of them were very badly mangled.
Q: Did you get a whiff of that stuff yourself?
A: No, evidently not. If I would have, I would have known what it was.
I worked on a hell of a lot of stuff.
Q: In that tape you talked about working on floaters and all that kind
of stuff.
A: You know.
Q: I haven’t had professional experience in it, but I’ve been involved
in it.
A: In New Mexico you’ve got this hot 100 degree stuff, and you’ve got
bodies out there two or three days, and (inaudible).
Q: This red headed guy, what was his rank, do you remember?
A: I think he was a captain. It seemed to me like he had on some bars.
Q: When he first appeared and started getting, essentially, pretty
rough, was the sergeant around at that time, or did he show up...
A: He was kind of beside of him. I think they were standing there....
Yeah, they were definitely standing there together. I don’t know if
they walked in together, because I didn’t see them until they turned me
around.
Q: Was there a lot of activity at that time? Were there people...
A: People were [fastened] everywhere. And the odd part of it was, there
wasn’t anybody, wasn’t any of our regular people. These were all people
that I’d never seen before. That’s why I got in so much trouble. I’d
never seen these guys.
Q: These were not any of the guys that would ordinarily recognize you
as somebody who would...
A: And they sure as hell didn’t want me there, you know that.
Q: When he says, “Get him out of there,” the redhead, did he make any
threats to you himself? Did he say, “Don’t say anything about this,
forget it...”
A: He said, just like that. He says, “Now listen, Mister, you don’t
go back into town starting a bunch of damn rumors.” This guy swore as
much as I do. Anyway, he said, “Don’t start a bunch of damn rumors,
because nothing happened out here. There’s no plane crashes. Nothing’s
happened. You don’t go in and start.” Then he told the MPs, “Get the
son of a bitch out of here.”
That’s when I said, right then, I said, “Look, Mister, I’m a civilian,
and you can’t do a damn thing to me, you go to hell.” That’s when he
said, “Listen, Mister, somebody will be picking your bones out of the
sand.”
Then the black sergeant said, “Sir, he would make good dog food,” or
something like that. I remember the dog food.
The next morning at 6:00 o’clock the sheriff was out at my dad’s house
and told my dad, “Glenn may be in a lot of trouble with the base, and
tell him to keep his mouth shut.”
I never told my story to anybody, but my dad came up, I was living in a
room at the funeral home. He came up and got me out of bed and wanted
to know what I’d done. He was a very patriotic old man, and he said,
“If you done anything against our government, I’ll take care of it.”
Q: When was this?
A: The next morning.
Q: You were saying what the heck? What’s going on?
A: Yeah. I said, well hey... He said, George Wilcox—the sheriff and my
dad were real good friends, and he said George tells me you’re in a lot
of trouble out there. He wasn’t going to leave, and I told my dad the
story. He got all upset because they threatened me and all this kind of
stuff.
I didn’t see the nurse, then, until the next day. After I saw her, then
I kept calling. When I got back to the funeral home I started calling,
because she was in trouble and so was I.
Q: It was the next morning after you’d been hustled out of there that
your dad came by to see you.
A: Yeah, 6:00 o’clock in the morning.
Q: He’d been called by the sheriff...
A: The sheriff went to my mother and dad’s house, and at 6:00
o’clock... My dad always got up early, sat and had coffee. He was an
old carpenter and building contractor. He and George were old friends
because he used to go hunting, and dad was making gun stocks, so they
were good friends. They used to play some kind of domino games or 42,
whatever you call it. They were good friends.
Q: So the sheriff went by to see your dad...
A: Dad said he was there at 6:00 o’clock.
Q: The sheriff came by early in the morning and then your dad
immediately came from home and came to see you.
A: After George Wilcox left, my dad came up to the funeral home and
wanted to know what I did.
Q: Did your dad say why the sheriff... Had the sheriff been contacted
by the base, or...
A: No, he just said, he was concerned about what I’d done, how I’d got
in trouble.
Q: Do you remember what he told you about what Wilcox told him?
A: He just said George said I was in trouble at the base, and what did
I do.
Q: Then after having this rude awakening, you then... Did you call the
nurse?
A: Well, yeah, this was in mid-morning. I remember I finally, I waited
until kind of, well, it must have been 9:00 o’clock or so, and I
called. I knew the work station that she always worked at. She was a
general nurse. They didn’t specialize. Just orderlies and everybody was
on general duty in those days. I was informed that she wasn’t there,
she wasn’t working. She wasn’t working that day.
Q: It was one of the other nurses that you talked to?
A: Yeah, it was an old girl by the name of Wilson, Captain Wilson. I
asked her, I said “what happened?” She said, “Glenn, I don’t know what
happened, but she’s not on duty. I’ll try to get the word to her that
you want to talk to her.” She was wanting to talk to me, but she was
sick. She was in total shock.
Q: Did she tell you that later, that she was sick?
A: I knew she was sick. She came out with that towel. She said, she and
the two doctors were sick. Then at the Officers’ Club, she said I want
to know what happened to you, and I’ll tell you what happened to me.
The only way we ever got to the Officers’ Club, the old regular group
said you don’t go anywhere, you keep your mouth shut, [inaudible] said
that. The old group, they would have known us. It probably wouldn’t
have mattered. But these people, hell, these people didn’t know us.
And of course I had a pass, and I had an associate membership to the
Officers’ Club, the funeral home did, so I could go as I pleased. I had
free access to the base.
Q: Did you meet her at the club?
A: She said she’d meet me over there. She was sick. She said I’ll meet
you there.
Q: When you got there, she was at the club?
A: She was walking up when I drove up. She walked over. It wasn’t very
far from the hospital.
Q: She walked from the hospital or...
A: From the nurse’s quarters.
Q: Let me back up to the event with the MPs. They physically hustled
you out of the hospital...
A: Well, they didn’t carry me out, they said, “Come on, we’re taking
you back,” one on each side. They didn’t have their hands on me or
forcing me.
Q: I’ve forgotten which one of the accounts has them lifting you right
off your feet and all that kind of stuff.
A: No. They may have got me by the elbow, but that was that. They were
nice guys. They were doing what they were told to do.
Q: They got you to the ambulance. Did they follow you back to the
funeral home?
A: One followed me in a pickup and the other one sat in the seat with
me.
Q: Oh, I see, he actually rode with you in the ambulance.
A: He rode with me, and the other one drove a pickup and picked him up.
They had a pickup.
Q: Did the guy riding with you say anything about what was going on?
A: He said he didn’t know what was going on. That was the first thing I
said, “What in the hell’s going on?” You know. He said, “You know more
about it than we do,” something similar to that. I don’t know the exact
words, but he didn’t know anything.
Q: Now we’re back to the Officers’ Club and you met her there. When you
saw her, how did she look?
A: Like a nervous wreck. Her hair wasn’t combed or nothing. She said
she’d been sick all night crying and everything else, and she was still
crying. She was hysterical. She put her hands over her face and said
I can’t believe it. The most horrible thing she’d ever seen. She was
really in bad shape.
Q: You called her and wanted to get in touch with her to talk with her
about what happened.
A: I was curious.
Q: Did she seem reluctant at first to talk to you about it?
A: No, she said I’ve got to talk to you. I want to know what happened
to you. She said I’ve got to talk to somebody, and that was it. You
know, I’d see her a lot. I knew all those old girls out there, you know.
Q: Did she give you any indication or any reason to believe that she
had been told to keep her mouth shut about it, or...
A: Well, yeah, because I’ll tell you what. She had this drawing on the
back of a prescription pad, these little bodies, it was on the back,
a little small thing on the back of a prescription pad. She said,
“I’m going to show you something, and you have to give me your sacred
oath that you won’t tell anybody when you got this and you won’t ever
mention my name, because I will get in a lot of trouble.” That’s what
she said. “I will get in a lot of trouble.”
Q: She didn’t say specifically that somebody had...
A: No, she just said, “I will get in a lot of trouble.” She said, “Will
you do that?” I said, “Sure.”
She showed me that. And she had it written on the back like I had it on
the back of that, you have my drawing, where I said note, and all that.
That’s what she said.
Q: She let you keep that, she gave it to you?
A: Yeah, she said you look at it and you throw it away. I never did. I
went and took it back and put it in my personal file.
Q: Which subsequently got tossed, apparently.
A: Well, all the files got tossed.
Q: What happened?
A: Well, the funeral home, I hired some guys, the manager up there
now [was there] before I left, and Raymond said that he doesn’t know,
because when he was working up there was another manager, and he
said he thought Joe [Lucas] told (inaudible). Of course Joe and I
weren’t very good friends and we’d had some problems over the funeral
business, and he said Joe found my files. He said I know he went
through everything you had.
He and I had a partnership in a business, and I put up all the money
and it went sour and so we had problems.
Q: You and Stan Friedman actually made an effort to try and find that,
didn’t you?
A: We went down there. The old file was right where I said it was, it
was still there. But it was, Stan will tell you, we went down in this
old basement, and I knew exactly... See, I kept files on every case
that I was involved in, murders, anything that I went to court on, that
I was a witness on, I kept all that. I called those my personal files.
If I ever had to go back with the insurance companies or anything, I
had it all right there. That’s why I had those.
Q: You found the filing cabinet but there was nothing in it?
A: No. We went through it. There wasn’t a thing in it. Stan and I both.
Q: They’d stripped it out, or was there other stuff in there...
A: There wasn’t anything in there.
Q: After all of that excitement, then what? Did it just kind of
evaporate?
A: It just kind of evaporated. Then of course two or three days later,
I was concerned about her because she was sick. I took her back to the
nurse’s quarters and let her out. I called back the next day and they
said she wasn’t on duty, and I called the next day and they said she
wasn’t on duty. Then I went out there, for some reason, I don’t recall.
I went out there and I asked about the lieutenant, and they said she’d
been transferred out. They said, “She was transferred out yesterday.”
Well, that was the day after I saw her. They got her out the next day.
Q: Who told you she’d been transferred out?
A: I don’t know. Some nurses...
Q: It wasn’t anybody that you remember?
A: No.
Q: Did they tell you where she’d been shipped to?
A: They didn’t know. They said she had been transferred, and that’s all
they knew.
Q: But then you heard from her subsequently.
A: About three or four weeks later. I got a card addressed to Ballard
Funeral Home. It was from her, and inside it just said, just a short
note, she said we will correspond later to see what happened to each
other, something similar to those words. She said the only way you can
contact me is through this APO number, and there was an APO number. It
was a New York APO number.
Q: So she’d gone to Europe or some place.
A: Then right on the bottom she says, “I’m in London.” That was it. I
wrote a note, just a note, that said if you feel like it and you get
time, then I would love to know and we’ll correspond. Mine came back.
That was about three or four weeks later. Mine came back.
Q: That was the one that was marked deceased?
A: Yes. It said return to sender, [addressee] deceased.
Q: Then what did you do?
A: (inaudible)
Q: You didn’t try to follow up or see if there was any possible...
A: No. I asked (inaudible), at the time we called her Slatts Wilson,
a big tall nurse, 6′2″, 6′3″, big tall skinny girl. We called her
Slatts. Everybody called her Slatts. She’s the one that told me she’d
heard that there was a plane crash and she was the nurse that went down
on a training mission. She said that’s strictly rumor, I don’t know
anything about it. That’s what I...
Q: No one’s been able to turn that one up at all.
A: I guess maybe I should never even mention this. I know no one
believes this damn story. Nobody believes this story.
Q: I don’t know if that’s true.
A: Anyway, it was a hell of a story. I told (inaudible). I said I told
the woman, I don’t want to give you her name, because I told the lady
I’d give a sacred oath and I didn’t want to get involved. Well, it’s
been 45 years, almost 40 years, and I haven’t heard anything. He said
I will do it confidentially and nobody else will have this name. Well,
that’s where he broke his promise after that. I got all over him about
it. I called him and I was madder than hell. He said well, Bob Shirkey
was the one that told everybody, that he was sitting in the back of
us. Bob brought Stan [Friedman] up there when he interviewed me. He
said, Bob Shirkey was the one that let out her name. To this day, Stan
Friedman (inaudible) still says he did not put her name out. I’ve been
on several shows, not several, but two or three interviews, and I’m not
going to mention her name. If somebody says is this her name? I’m not
going to say it is or it isn’t. I told Stan ... I was madder than hell
about it, because I did give my word.
Q: There’s another side to that, too, from the standpoint of those
who are trying to get some answers. By not having her name around,
it makes it easier to cross-check the stories that you get from
people. You have... It’s a question of honor, and that’s very sound. I
applaud you for that. There’s not too many people around these days
that are concerned about that kind of thing. And it’s also, from an
investigator’s point of view, an advantage, too.
A: I’ve never read this stuff, I’ve never watched the videos, I’ve
never read any books, I haven’t even read Stan’s books, I haven’t even
read [Kevin] Randle’s only what they say about me. Friedman is a lot
more accurate, but see...
Q: You mean about...
A: About me. I’ve read that. That’s the only thing I’ve read. I’m
not a UFO guy. I’ve got another life besides UFOs. But anyway, Stan
Friedman’s story is pretty well right. But Randle and them was always
said I got curious. I didn’t get curious. I went out there on a call,
just like I told you.
Q: The section of their book that refers to you is really kind of
cryptic, anyway.
A: They said the book was already published. Now they had a copy...
Friedman sent them a copy of my tape. They had the (inaudible). Hell,
they had my tape. They just made that up. Somebody did.
Q: I was puzzled by it when I read their book. That whole section where
they refer to you, and it’s all very mysterious, and your name is not
referred to in the table of contents, but you’re in the list of people
that’s been interviewed, but you’re not one of the key people lists...
A: They never did interview me.
Q: They never talk to you at all?
A: Not personally. They didn’t interview me until a long time later, a
year or so later. They only had Stan’s tape.
Q: So when they were actually writing their book...
A: The book was already published.
Q: When they were doing the writing, they were working from Stan’s tape.
A: Evidently.
Q: Who was actually the first UFO investigator to get in touch with you?
A: Stan Friedman. When they had Unsolved Mysteries here and different
ones. There was a lot of people... I’d get different ones. I had
different people come and say we want to talk to you about the UFOs,
and I said I don’t have anything to say, I don’t want to talk about it,
and I never did. I’ve talked to very few people since.
Q: How did Stan come to find you?
A: One of the guys that I went to school with, high school, and Captain
Harry Blake, he’s a general now, (inaudible).
Q: Is he still on active duty?
A: No, he’s retired. He was just a general in the military school,
National Guard, I don’t know. He never was really a good friend of
mine. We lived across the street from each other when we were kids.
Q: So that’s how Stan found you. He was the first guy to talk to you.
A: Bob Shirkey brought him up there to see me.
(Pause)
Q: There’s a reference in here to you having some years later, I think,
talked to a pediatrician that you knew? A guy that was stationed...
A: I can’t find his picture, and I don’t remember his name. I ran into
him when I was fishing up in Colorado and we ran into each other.
Q: This was a guy who was at that time stationed here?
A: He was here, and they called him in. He said that was out of his
field and he didn’t want anything to do with it.
Q: They actually called him in and asked him to take a look at what had
been retrieved or...
A: He said they called him in. I don’t know. He said, “But I said that
was out of my field and I didn’t want anything to do with it.” That’s
what he told me, now.
Q: Did you get the sense that he knew more than he was telling?
A: I would say so, yeah. I’m sure they did. A lot of those guys out
there did.
Q: You don’t remember his name?
A: I don’t remember it. But I did run into him. Somewhere I’ve got his
name.
Q: Have you talked with anyone else? Had you during that time before
you got into all this...
A: No, I wouldn’t have even talked to him about it. He brought it up
and wanted to know whatever happened on the UFO business.
Q: It was at his initiative.
A: I didn’t bring it up. I told him I didn’t know any more about it
than he did. He said well that was strictly out of my field, and I
didn’t want to get involved in it. That was about it. But he brought it
up. I didn’t ask him.
Q: He was just curious about what happened.
A: Wanted to know whatever happened to it.
Q: That’s about all I’ve got.
(END)
Transcript of Interview with Alice Knight[*]
(Alleged secondhand witness to
“crash site”
175 miles northwest of Roswell)
[*] Excerpted from raw footage used to prepare the video,
_Recollections of Roswell Part II_, (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO
Research, 1993).
A: I remember that he saw—one time I went to visit—and I don’t remember
whether it was before my husband and I married or after, I don’t recall
the date. But he said that he saw a UFO fall. He was out working in the
field and I understood that he was out on the St. Agustin Plains and he
went over that way and it fell and he got nearly to the site and there
was a group of people on a geological—archeological hunt and they were
over there. I don’t remember how many people he said.
But they got nearly up to the UFO but it was close enough that you
could see some creatures. He said they didn’t look like human beings
out there.
And along came government cars and trucks...
Q: Now, by government you mean...
A: I guess it was government. You know, as I said it was a long time
ago. And someone came along and I understood it, I don’t know whether
it was army or what. I think he just termed it government trucks and
they told him to go on back and forget they ever saw anything, and
that’s all I recall.
(END)
Transcript of Interview with Vern Maltais[*]
(Alleged secondhand witness to
“crash site”
175 miles northwest of Roswell)
[*] Excerpted from raw footage used to prepare the video.
_Recollections of Roswell Part II_, (Washington, D.C.: Fund for UFO
Research, 1993).
A: ...he [the eyewitness] had been coming back from one of his field
trips, he’d run onto a flying saucer that had burst open and there
were four beings on the ground and that he was surveying the site,
archeological group from the University of Pennsylvania, telling us
that there were about four or five people with this group.
As they were just starting to look things over really closely, the
military moved in and gave them a briefing not to say anything about it
and keep quiet and it was in the national interest to get out of there.
Q: What was his feeling about what it was that he had experienced?
A: He had no qualms about what it was. He said it was a vehicle from
outer space. There wasn’t any question. The beings on there were
nothing like, not exactly like human beings....
Q: How did you...
A: ...similar but not exactly.
Q: How did he describe them?
A: He described them being about three and a half to four feet tall,
very slim in stature, and with—their heads were hairless, with no
eyebrows, no eyelashes, no hair. Sort of a pear-shaped head with the
top of the head being smaller—larger, I mean.
Q: Any other characteristics about their appearance?
A: Only one thing that he mentioned. The hands were not covered, they
had four fingers.
(END)
Transcript of Interview with
James Ragsdale[*]
(Alleged firsthand witness to
“crash site” north of Roswell)
[*] James Ragsdale, interview with Donald R. Schmitt, January 26,
1993.
RAGSDALE, JAMES EYEWITNESS Transcript
26 JANUARY 1993
DS: So you were actually out there.
JR: Yeah.
DS: Do you remember the name of the ranch it was on?”
JR: It was on ... Fisher?
DS: Was it north of here.
JR: Yes ... back out here.
DS: Northwest ... Just take your time.
JR: It was Foster. (Some discussion with his wife about who owned the
ranch) ... Let me see what you’ve got (referring to the photographs).
That’s the place right there (identifying the location from the
pictures).
DS: What area?
JR: It seemed to me that that place belonged to ... Fisher, but it sold
to somebody else ... somebody else bought that... That’s how come I was
out in that area. And we was out there and she’s dead and all the guys
I showed the stuff are all dead. It’s amazing what all went on...
Discuss our book and the Museum.
DS: showing one of the pictures ... so you think this looks like
JR: That looks like the place.
DS: As far as the ranches go, driving around at that time, it could
have been most any ranch, right? This would have been in '47 ... You
were with this woman?
JR: Yeah. We were camped out out there.
DS: You were camping?
JR: Yeah... I would say half of it ... I would say that only about
half of it ... just half of a ... you really couldn’t tell what it
was ... what you could still see, where it hit ... I think it was two
spaceships flying together and one them came down and the other one
picked up what they could and got out of there.
DS: Is it possible that because it was hit by lightning that it broke
up and part of it went down ... (discussion of the Mac Brazel sighting)
JR: ... but it was either dummies or bodies or something laying there.
They looked like bodies. They weren’t very long ... over four or five
foot long at the most. We didn’t see their faces or nothing like that
but we had just got to the site and heard the army, the sirens, all
coming and we got into a damned jeep to take off. We had to hold a
fence up to go onto another ranch to come out from there.
DS: How far would you say this from town here?
JR: Thirty miles ... forty miles.
DS: In a northwesterly direction?
JR: Right up here. (Discuss the pictures again.)
DS: Were there any buildings?
JR: No. You couldn’t see nothing. You go up on top of the hill. It was
a hill ... (referring to the pictures) you could see the stuff right
here.
DS: The object ... the craft ... what was left of it ... in these
photos ... where was the object?
JR: Along this right here ... It looked to be about half of around (?)
because around the edges ... I had two great big pieces. That’s what
they got when they stole the car ... you could take that stuff and wad
it up and it would straighten itself out. I never seen anything like
it. Looked like something between a plastic ... looked like carbon
paper...
DS: That was the color of it?
JR: Yeah. Carbons. That was the color of it. Sure was ... between
plastic and ... hell I don’t know ... let’s see how to describe. One
piece we had you could take it and put it in any form you wanted and it
would stay there ... you could bend it in any form and it would stay
... it wouldn’t straighten back out.
DS: You picked those up from the ground?
JR: Yeah.
DS: You threw them in the jeep ... stuffed them in your clothes...?
JR: Yeah and then we heard all of them coming...
DS: How many vehicles ... how much commotion did you hear as they came
in?
JR: Oh my God it must have been ... it was two or three six by six
army trucks, a wrecker and everything ... and leading the pack was a
'47 Ford car with guys in it ... MPs and stuff in it ... we had the
windshield down on the jeep and we stayed in the weeds and stuff ...
and we came on back down to where we was camped at.
DS: So you watched for a while?
JR: Yeah. Sure did.
DS: What was their...
JR: They cleaned everything all up. I mean cleaned it. They raked the
ground and everything. I mean they cleaned everything.
DS: You didn’t stay there that long?
JR: No, but they had a truck. I would say it was six or eight big
trucks besides the pick up, weapons carriers and stuff like that.
DS: What kind of guard did they have. Did they surround certain areas...
JR: They had MPs all ... they got way out in the field. They had people
all along this ridge ... they drove up in here. We was back over here.
This grass here...
DS: So if you were back here, could you see the activity down here?
JR: You couldn’t see too much of what they ... you could tell ... As
soon as they got there they began gathering the stuff up ... we were
hidden in what you call buffalo grass...
DS: Did you see any behavior around the bodies.
JR: Huh-uh.
DS: You couldn’t see down to that level?
JR: Yeah.
DS: Did you see any activity near the craft?
JR: No.
DS: The angle of the craft ... was it flat was tipped...
JR: One part was kind of buried in the ground ... and part of it was
sticking out of the ground ... about like that (DS: about a 30 degree
angle?) Yeah ... and I’m sure that was bodies ... either bodies or
dummies...
DS: Why do you say “dummies?”
JR: The federal government could have been doing something because they
didn’t want anyone to know what this was ... they was using dummies in
those damned things ... they could use remote control.
DS: So you thought that it could have been an experimental craft?
JR: After I came to town showed Frank Willis and his son (he’s dead)
... the Blue Moon beer joint over on the old Dexter highway. We was
there until two o’clock in the morning ... I had the jeep behind my car.
DS: Did you still have the scrap in the jeep?
JR: Yeah. I showed it to him. He said I would just keep my mouth shut
... he said hell there is no telling where that come from.
DS: So you didn’t think it was from outer space?
JR: No. We didn’t even think about outer space back then...
DS: When was the first time that you thought that maybe this was
something more?
JR: It was about three weeks ... it came out that a spaceship had
crashed at Roswell ... about three weeks. But it could have been out
longer than that there but see I worked in Carlsbad...
DS: But you first saw there had been a newspaper article about three
weeks after...
JR: Oh hell it was two or three weeks before I caught up on it ... a
spaceship ... what I hear is they guarded that place for a long time
out there ... because me and another fellow went out there and you
couldn’t get ... they had the roads sealed off ... it was a month or so
after...
DS: And they still had it cordoned off.
JR: The MPs and stuff were still on the road. They wouldn’t let nobody
go out there...
DS: If a person were to drive out there today ... going north out of
town ... are we talking 285?
JR: No. Highway 48. You go out 48. You go out here to the truck route,
hit 48 and ... and it’s about forty some miles out in there ... (And no
talks about the car being stolen in 1951 when the car with the debris
was stolen...) ...I would say 18 inches and 30 inches long ... strips
off the edge of it ... it was a heavy material but it didn’t have no
ridges ... it was put together with some kind of solder like stuff ...
no bumps, no nothing in it ... it wasn’t ... it was about as heavy as
duraluminum ... it wasn’t as brittle ... you could take a small piece
and it was flexible ... (then discuss the stealing of the car with a
wrecker and the material was locked in the trunk of the car. And then
discuss the break in of the house where the last of the pieces were
stolen about eight years ago ... 1985).
DS: Was there a storm that night?”
JR: Yeah. There sure was. It was a whale of a storm.
DS: Did you hear anything unusual? Did you hear ... between the cracks
of thunder...
JR: Well, it lit up the sky when it came down. It lit up the damned ...
we thought at first that it was falling star or something. And electric
lightning ... man it was something.
DS: You heard something and you saw something...
JR: Yeah, sure did ... because we were laying there in the back of the
pick up ... the whole sky lit up ... we thought it was a star falling.
DS: Did you then go to check it out...
JR: Sure did. The next day, sure did. We drove right up on it. She
picked up a piece of it and we had the jeep parked a little ways away
from there and throwed a piece of it up there somewhere and I have
tried and tried to find where she had throwed that piece ... she had a
piece but when she saw the army coming she throwed it out ... she saw
them a coming and she throwed it out ... I doubt that I could even go
back to the place it’s been so long. (Now begin to talk about the car
wreck that nearly killed him.)
Remainder of the tape is discussion about the car wreck, the ranchers
in the area, and the murder of Mrs. Ragsdale’s brother.
(END)
Selected Bibliography of Technical Reports
The technical reports listed below are available for sale by contacting:
National Technical Information Service (NTIS)
5285 Port Royal Rd
Springfield, VA 22161
(703) 487-4650
http://www.orders@ntis.fedworld.gov
Publication NTIS Report Number
Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratories.
“Report on Research, for the Period July
1965-June 1967”, AFCRL TR-68-0039, 1968. AD 666484
Air Force Missile Development Center.
_MAN HIGH III_, MDC-TR-60-16, 1960. AD 259635
——. _MAN-HIGH I_, MDC-TR-59-24, 1959. ADA 215867
Air Research and Development Command.
_History of Flight Support Holloman Air
Development Center, 1946–1957_, 1957. ADA 323526
Bartol, Aileen M., et al.. _Advanced Dynamic
Anthropomorphic Manikin (ADAM) Final
Design Report_, AAMRL TR-90-023, 1990. AD 234761
Bushnell, David. _Contributions of Balloon
Operations to Research and Development
at the Air Force Missile Development Center
Holloman AFB, N. Mex. 1947–1958_, 1958. ADA 323109
——. _History of Research in Space Biology
and Biodynamics at the Air Force Missile
Development Center, Holloman AFB,
New Mexico, 1946–1958_, 1958. ADA 323170
——. _History of Research in Subgravity and
Zero-G at the Air Force Missile Development
Center, Holloman AFB, New Mexico,
1948–1958_, 1958. ADA 323144
——. _Major Achievements in Biodynamics:
Escape Physiology at the Air Force Missile
Development Center, Holloman AFB,
New Mexico, 1953–1958_, 1958. ADA 323127
——. _Origin and Operation of the First
Holloman Track, 1949–1956_, 1956. ADA 323573
——. _Research Accomplishments in Biodynamics:
Deceleration and Impact at the Air Force
Missile Development Center, Holloman AFB,
New Mexico, 1955–1958_, 1958. ADA 323097
——. _The Aeromedical Field Laboratory: Mission,
Organization, and Track Test Programs,
1958–1960_, 1960. ADA 323166
——. _The Beginnings of Research in Space Biology
at the Air Force Missile Development Center,
Holloman AFB, New Mexico, 1946–1952_, 1958. ADA 323167
Cobb, D. B. and Waters, M.H.L. Royal Aircraft
Establishment Farnborough. _The Behavior
of Dummy Men During Long Free Falls_,
Mechanical Engineering Note 179, 1954. AD 060052
Firestone, James R. and Patterson, Jack H.
_Recovery of Parachute-Borne Packages
by Helicopter_, TDR 62-6, 1962. AD 276477
Flight Summary, Non-Extensible Balloon
Operations, 6580th Test Squadron (Special),
June 1950 to October 1954. ADA 323108
Gildenberg, Bernard G. “General Philosophy and
Techniques of Balloon Control”, in Lewis A.
Grass, ed., _Proceedings, Sixth AFCRL Scientific
Balloon Symposium_, AFCRL-70-0543, 1970. AD 717149
——. _Capacity and Fatigue Tests on Three Mil
Polyethylene Balloons_, HADC TN-55-4, 1955. AD 066092
——. _Crane Launch Techniques for Polyethylene
Balloons_, HADC TN 57-3, 1957. AD 123732
——. _Development of Shroud Inflation Techniques
for Plastic Balloons_, HADC TN-54-4, 1954. AD 039440
——. _Investigation of Inflation Techniques for
Nonextensible Balloons_, HADC TN 54-7, 1954. AD 067595
——. _Meteorological Aspects of Constant-Level
Balloon Operations in the Southwestern
United States_, AFCRL-66-706, 1966. AD 644895
——. _Summary Report Project Moby Dick: Covered
Wagon Balloon Launcher Development and Test
Results_, HDT-21, 1952. AD 001124
——. _Techniques Developed for Heavy Load
Non-Extensible Balloon Flights_, Report No.
HADC-TN-54-3, 1954. ADA 030902
Greer, R.J., et al. _Development of a Balloon-Borne
Manned Vehicle_, WADC TR-59-226, 1959. AD 227244
Hertzberg, H.T.E. _The Anthropology of
Anthropomorphic Dummies_,
AMRL TR-69-61, 1969. AD 706411
Hess, Joseph. _Determination of Parachute Descent
Times and Impact Locations for High Altitude
Balloon Payloads_, AFCRL 63-885, 1963. AD 421021
Holloman Air Development Center, Weekly Test
Status Reports, Project MX-1450B/7218
(HIGH DIVE), June 1954 to January 1956. ADA 323823
Madson, Raymond A., 1st Lt. _High Altitude Balloon
Dummy Drops, II. The Stabilized Dummy
Drops_, WADC TR 57-477 (II), 1961. AD 270880
——. _High Altitude Balloon Dummy Drops,