"My grandfather brought me up strictly. I don't know what they thought
about the young people of their day, but I know what I think. I will
tell you. At first I searched myself. Kids in the time I came along had
to go by a certain rule. They had to go by it.
"We don't see to our children doing right as our parents saw to our
doing. It would be good if we could get ourselves together and bring
these young people back where they belong. What ruined the young folks
is our lack of discipline. We send them to school but that is all, and
that is not enough. We ought to take it on ourselves to see that they
are learning as they ought to learn and what they ought to learn.
"I belong to Bethel A. M. E. Church. I married about 1919, November 16.
I have just one kid and two grand kids."
--- 13 1937
Interviewer: Miss Irene Robertson
Person interviewed: Frank William Glenn
Des Arc, Arkansas
Age: 73
"I was born June 1864 in Des Arc. My parents named Richard Lewis Glenn
and Pleasant Glynn. My mama died when I was small. I recollect hearing
em say the southern women oughtn't marry the Yankee men, there was so
much difference in their lives. A few widows and girls did marry Yankee
men, very few. Southern folks jes' hated em.
"Master Wash Glenn had a son named Boliver. He may had more. I don't
know much about em. We stayed there after the war for a long time then
went to work for Mr. Bedford Bethels father. We worked there a long time
then went to work for Mr. Jim Erwin. My papa always farmed. I heard my
mama say she washed and sewed during slavery. There was three boys and
one girl in our famlee. I heard bout the bushwhackers and Ku Klux. I was
too young to tell bout what they did do. I never did see none dressed
up.
"I don't fool wid votin' much. I have voted. I don't understand votin'
much and how they run the govermint. My time of usefulness is nearly
gone.
"The present time serves me hard. I got my leg caught in a wagon wheel
and so sprained I been cripple ever since. The rheumatiz settles in it
till I can't sleep at night. My wife quit me. I got two boys in Chicago,
the girl and her ma in Brinkley. They sho don't help me. I have to rent
my house. I don't own nuthin'. I work all I'm able.
"The present generation is selfish and restless. I don't know what goner
become of em. Times is changing too fast for me. I jess look on and
wonder what going to come on next."
Interviewer: Miss Irene Robertson
Person interviewed: Ella Glespie
Brassfield, Arkansas
Age: 71
"I was born the third year after the surrender. I was born in Okolona,
Mississippi. My parents was Jane Bowen and Henry Harrison. Ma had seven
children. They lived on the Gates place at freedom. I'm the onliest one
of my kin living anywheres 'bout now. Ma never was sold but pa was.
"Parson Caruthers brought pa from Alabama. He was a good runner and when
he was little he throwd his hip outer j'int running races. Then Parson
Caruthers learnt him a trade--a shoemaker. When he was still nothing but
a lad he was sold for quite a sum of money. When emancipation come on he
could read and write and make change.
"So den he was out in the world cripple. He started teaching school. He
had been a preacher, too, durin' slavery. He preached and taught school.
He was justice of the peace and representative for two terms from
Chickasaw County in the state legislature. I heard them talk about that
and when I started to school Mr. Suggs was the white man principal. Pa
was one teacher and there was some more teachers. He was a teacher a
long time. He was eighty odd and ma was sixty odd when she died. Both
died in Mississippi.
"My folks said Master Gates was good. I knowd my pa's young Master
Gates. Pa said he never got a whooping. They made a right smart of money
outen his work. He said some of the boots he made brung high as twenty
dollars. Pa had a good deal of Confederate bills as I recollects. Ma
said some of them on Gates' place got whoopings.
"When they would be at picnics and big corn shellings or shuckings
either, all Gates' black folks was called 'Heavy Gates'; they was fed
and treated so well. I visited back at home in Mississippi. Went to the
quarters and all nineteen years ago. I heard them still talking about
the 'Heavy Gates'. I was one the offspring.
"Ma cooked for her old mistress years and years. Mrs. Rogers in South
Carolina give ma to Miss Rebecca, her daughter, and said, 'Take good
care of her, you might need her.' They come in ox wagons to Mississippi.
Ma was a little girl then when Miss Rebecca married Dr. Bowen. Ma hated
to leave Miss Rebecca Bowen 'cause in the first place she was her
half-sister. She said Master Rogers was her own pa. Her ma was a cook
and house girl ahead of her. Ma was a fine cook. Heap better than I ever
was 'cause she never lacked the stuff to fix and I come short there.
"I heard ma tell this. Wherever she lived and worked, at Dr. Bowen's, I
reckon. The soldiers come one day and took their sharp swords from out
their belts and cut off heads of turkeys, chickens, geese, ducks,
guineas, and took a load off and left some on the ground. They picked up
the heads and what was left and made a big washpot full of dumplings.
She said the soldiers wasted so much.
"When I was young I seen a 'style block' at Holly Springs, Mississippi.
I was going to Tucker Lou School, ten miles from Jackson. That was way
back in the seventies. A platform was up in the air under a tree and two
stumps stood on ends for the steps. It was higher than three steps but
that is the way they got up on the platform they tole me.
"I think times are a little better. I gits a little ironing and six
dollars and commodities. The young generation is taking on funny ways. I
think they do very well morally 'cepting their liquor drinking habits.
That is worse, I think. They are advancing in learning. I think times a
little better.
"My husband had been out here. We married and I come here. I didn't like
here a bit but now my kin is all dead and I know folks here better. I
like it now very well. He was a farmer and mill man."
Interviewer: Mary D. Hudgins
Person Interviewed: Joe Golden
Age: 86
Home: 722 Gulpha Street, Hot Springs, Ark.
"Yes, ma'am to be sure I remembers you. I knew your father and all his
brothers. I knew your mother's father and your grandmother, and all the
Denglers. Your grandpappy was mighty good to me. Your grandmother was
too. Many's the day your uncle Fred followed me about while I was
hunting. I was the only one what your grandpappy would let hunt in his
garden. Yes, ma'am! If your grandmother would hear a shot across the
hill in the garden, she'd say, 'Go over and see who it is.' And your
grandfather would come. He'd chase them away. But if it was me, he'd go
back home and he'd tell her, 'It's just Joe. He's not going to carry
away more than he can eat. Joe'll be all right.'
"Yes, ma'am. I was born down at Magnet Cove. I belonged to Mr. Andy
Mitchell. He was a great old man, he was. Did he have a big farm and
lots of black folks? Law, miss, he didn't have nothing but children,
just lots of little children. He rented me and my pappy and my mother to
the Sumpters right here in Hot Springs.
"I can remember Hot Springs when there wasn't more than three houses
here. Folks used to come thru and lots of folks used to stay. But there
wasn't more than three families lived here part of the time.
"Yes, ma'am we worked. But we had lots of fun too. Them was exciting
times. I can remember when folks got to shooting at each, other right in
the street. I run off and taken to the woods when that happened.
"No, miss, we didn't live in Hot Springs all thru the war. When the
Federals taken Little Rock they taken us to Texas. We stayed there until
'68. Then we come back to Hot Springs.
"Yes, miss, Hot Springs was a good place to make money. Lots of rich
folks was coming to the hotels. Yes, ma'am, I made money. How'd I make
it? Well lots of ways. I used to run. I was the fastest runner what was.
Folks would bet on us, and I'd always win. Then I used to shine shoes.
Made money at it too. Lots of days I made as much as $4 or $5. Sometimes
I didn't even stop to eat. But I was making money, and I didn't care.
"Then there was a feller, a doctor he was. He give me a gun. I used to
like to hunt. Hunted all over these mountains[1], hunted quail and
hunted squirrel and a few times I killed deers. The man what gave me the
gun he promised me twenty five cents apiece for all the quail I could
bring him. Lots of times I came in with them by the dozen.
"I tried to save my money. Didn't spend much. I'd bring it home to my
mother. She'd put it away for me. But if my pappy knowed I got money
he'd take it away from me and buy whiskey. You might know why, miss. He
was part Creek--yes ma'am, part Creek Indian.
"Does you remember chinquapins? They used to be all over the hill up
yonder.[1] I used to get lots of them. Sell them too. One time I chased
a deer up there[1]. Got him with a knife, didn't have a gun. The dogs
cornered him for me. Best dog I ever had, his name was Abraham Lincoln.
He was extra good for a possom dog. Once I got a white possom in the
same place I got a deer. It was way out yonder--that place there ain't
nothing but rocks. Yes, ma'am, Hell's Half Acre.[2]
"Yes, miss, I has made lots of money in my time. Can't work none now.
Wish you had got to me three years ago. That was before I had my stroke.
Can't think of what I want to say, and can't make my mouth say it. You
being patient with me. I got to take time to think.
"Me and my wife we gets along pretty well. We have our home, and then I
got other property.[3] We was real well off. I had $1200 in the
bank--Webb's Bank when it failed.[4] Never got but part of my money
back.
"When I sold out my bootblack stand I bought a butcher shop. I made a
lot of money there. I had good meat and folks, black folks and white
folks came to buy from me. So you remembers my barbecue, do you? Yes,
miss, I always tried to make it good. Yes, I remembers your pappy used
to always buy from me.
"Your grandmother was a good woman. I remember when your Uncle Freddy
had been following me around all day while I was hunting--it was in your
grandpappy's garden--his vineyard too--it was mighty big. I told Freddy
he could have a squirrel or a quail. He took the squirrel and I gave
him a couple of quail too. Went home with him and showed your
grandmother how they ought to be fixed.
"I can remember before your father lived in Hot Springs. He and his
brothers used to come thru from Polk County. They'd bring a lot of
cotton to sell. Yes, ma'am lots of folks came thru. They'd either sell
them here or go on to Little Rock. Lots of Indians--along with cotton
and skins they'd bring loadstone. Then when your pappy and his brothers
had a hardware store I bought lots of things from them. Used to be some
pretty bad men in Hot Springs--folks was mean in them days. I remember
when your father kept two men from killing each other. Wish, I wish I
could remember better. This stroke has about got me.
"Yes, miss, that was the garden. I used to sell garden truck too. Had a
bush fence around it long before a wire one. Folks used to pass up other
folks to buy truck from me. Your mother did.
"Life's been pretty good to me. I've lived a long time. And I've done a
lot. Made a lot of money, and didn't get beyond the third grade.[5]
Can't cultivate the garden now. My wife does well enough to take care of
the yard. She's a good woman, my wife is.
"So you're going to Fayetteville to see Miss Adeline? I remember Miss
Adeline.[6] She worked for your pappy's brother didn't she. Yes, I
knowed her well. I liked her.
"Yes miss, I'm sort of tired. It's hard to think. And I can't move about
much. But I got my home and I got my wife and we're comfortable. Thank
you."
Interviewer's note:
I left him sitting and rocking gently in a home-made hickory stationary
swing eyes half closed looking out across his yard and basking in the
warm sunshine of late afternoon.