Mass^{ts} ay. Con^t ay. N. Y. no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay.
M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. no.
[110] Yates has the question on _five_ years, but this is
obviously a mistake.--Yates, _Secret Proceedings_, etc., 172.
"To receive fixt stipends by which they may be compensated for their
services" considered.
General Pinkney proposed "that no Salary should be allowed." As this
(the Senatorial) branch was meant to represent the wealth of the
Country, it ought to be composed of persons of wealth; and if no
allowance was to be made the wealthy alone would undertake the service.
He moved to strike out the clause.
Doct^r Franklin seconded the motion. He wished the Convention to stand
fair with the people. There were in it a number of young men who would
probably be of the Senate. If lucrative appointments should be
recommended we might be chargeable with having carved out places for
ourselves. On the question,--Mas^{ts} Connecticut[111] P^a M^d S.
Carolina ay. N. Y. N. J. Del. Virg^a N. C. Geo. no.
[111] Quer. whether Connecticut should not be, no. & Delaware,
ay.--Madison's Note.
M^r Williamson moved to change the expression into these words to wit
"to receive a compensation for the devotion of their time to the public
service." The motion was seconded by M^r Elseworth, and agreed to by all
the States except S. Carol^a. It seemed to be meant only to get rid of
the word "fixt" and leave greater room for modifying the provision on
this point.
M^r Elseworth moved to strike out "to be paid out of the Nat^l Treasury"
and insert "to be paid by their respective States." If the Senate was
meant to strengthen the Gov^t it ought to have the confidence of the
States. The States will have an interest in keeping up a representation,
and will make such provision for supporting the members as will ensure
their attendance.
M^r Madison considered this as a departure from a fundamental principle,
and subverting the end intended by allowing the Senate a duration of 6
years. They would if this motion should be agreed to, hold their places
during pleasure; during the pleasure of the State Legislatures. One
great end of the institution was, that being a firm, wise and impartial
body, it might not only give stability to the Gen^l Gov^t in its
operations on individuals, but hold an even balance among different
States. The motion would make the Senate like Congress, the mere Agents
& Advocates of State interests & views, instead of being the impartial
umpires & Guardians of justice and the general Good. Cong^s had lately
by the establishment of a board with full powers to decide on the mutual
claims between the U. States & the individual States, fairly
acknowledged themselves to be unfit for discharging this part of the
business referred to them by the Confederation.
M^r Dayton[112] considered the payment of the Senate by the States as
fatal to their independence, he was decided for paying them out of the
Nat^l Treasury.
[112] "Cap. Dayton is a young Gentleman of talents, with
ambition to exert them. He possesses a good education and
some reading; he speaks well, and seems desirous of
improving himself in Oratory. There is an impetuosity in his
temper that is injurious to him; but there is an honest
rectitude about him that makes him a valuable Member of
Society, and secures to him the esteem of all good Men. He
is about 30 years old, served with me a Brother Aid to
General Sullivan in the Western Expedition of
'79."--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist. Rev._, iii., 328.
On the question for payment of the Senate to be left to the States as
moved by M^r Elseworth.
Mass^{ts} no. Con^t ay. N. Y. ay. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. no.
M^d no. V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
Col. Mason. He did not rise to make any motion, but to hint an idea
which seemed to be proper for consideration. One important object in
constituting the Senate was to secure the rights of property. To give
them weight & firmness for this purpose, a considerable duration in
office was thought necess[~a]y. But a longer term than 6 years, would be of
no avail in this respect, if needy persons should be appointed. He
suggested therefore the propriety of annexing to the office a
qualification of property. He thought this would be very practicable; as
the rules of taxation would supply a scale for measuring the degree of
wealth possessed by every man.
A question was then taken whether the words "to be paid out of the
public treasury," should stand.
Mass^{ts} ay. Con^t no. N. Y. no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay.
M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.
M^r Butler moved to strike out the ineligibility of Senators to _State
offices_.