Mass^{ts} no. Con^t no. N. Y. ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay.
M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. ay.
Doc^r Franklyn said he approved of the amendment just made for rendering
the salaries as fixed as possible; but disliked the word "_liberal_." He
would prefer the word moderate if it was necessary to substitute any
other. He remarked the tendency of abuses in every case, to grow of
themselves when once begun, and related very pleasantly the progression
in ecclesiastical benefices, from the first departure from the
gratuitous provision for the Apostles, to the establishment of the papal
system. The word "liberal" was struck out nem con.
On the motion of M^r Pierce, that the wages should be paid out of the
National Treasury,
Mass^{ts} ay. C^t no. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay.
M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. G. ay.
Question on the clause relating to term of service & compensation of
1^{st} branch,
Mass^{ts} ay. C^t no. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay.
M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. ay.
On a question for striking out the "_ineligibility_ of members of the
Nat^l Legis: to _State offices_,"
Mass^{ts} div^d. Con^t ay. N. Y. ay. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. no.
M^d div^d. V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.
On the question for agreeing to the clause as amended,
Mass^{ts} ay. Con^t no. N. Y. ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay.
M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
On a question for making members of the Nat^l Legislature _ineligible_
to any office under the Nat^l Gov^t for the term of 3 years after
ceasing to be members,
Mass^{ts} no. Con^t no. N. Y. no. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. no.
M^d ay. V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.
On the question for such ineligibility for one year,
Mass^{ts} ay. C^t ay. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay.
M^d div^d. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.
On question moved by Mr. Pinckney, for striking out "incapable of
re-election into 1^{st} branch of the Nat^l Legisl. for ---- years, and
subject to recall" ag^d to nem. con.
On question for striking out from the Resol: 5 the words requiring
members of the Senatorial branch to be of the age of ---- years at least
Mass^{ts} no. Con^t ay. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. no.
M^d no. V^a no. N. C. div^d. S. C. no. Geo. div^d.
On the question for filling the blank with 30 years as the
qualification; it was agreed to,
Mass^{ts} ay. C^t no. N. Y. ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no.
M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.
M^r Spaight moved to fill the blank for the duration of the
appointm^{ts} to the 2^d branch of the National Legislature with the
words "7 years."
M^r Sherman, thought 7 years too long. He grounded his opposition he
said on the principle that if they did their duty well, they would be
reelected. And if they acted amiss, an earlier opportunity should be
allowed for getting rid of them. He preferred 5 years which w^d be
between the terms of the 1^{st} branch & of the executive.
M^r Pierce proposed 3 years. 7 years would raise an alarm. Great
mischiefs had arisen in England from their septennial Act which was
reprobated by most of their patriotic Statesmen.
M^r Randolph was for the term of 7 years. The democratic licentiousness
of the State Legislatures proved the necessity of a firm Senate. The
object of this 2^d branch is to controul the democratic branch of the
Nat^l Legislature. If it be not a firm body, the other branch being
more numerous, and coming immediately from the people, will overwhelm
it. The Senate of Maryland constituted on like principles had been
scarcely able to stem the popular torrent. No mischief can be
apprehended, as the concurrence of the other branch, and in some
measure, of the Executive, will in all cases be necessary. A firmness
& independence may be the more necessary also in this branch, as it
ought to guard the Constitution ag^{st} encroachments of the Executive
who will be apt to form combinations with the demagogues of the popular
branch.
M^r Madison, considered 7 years as a term by no means too long. What we
wished was to give to the Gov^t that stability which was every where
called for, and which the Enemies of the Republican form alledged to be
inconsistent with its nature. He was not afraid of giving too much
stability by the term of Seven years. His fear was that the popular
branch would still be too great an overmatch for it. It was to be much
lamented that we had so little direct experience to guide us. The
Constitution of Maryland was the only one that bore any analogy to this
part of the plan. In no instance had the Senate of Mary^d created just
suspicions of danger from it. In some instances perhaps it may have
erred by yielding to the H. of Delegates. In every instance of their
opposition to the measures of the H. of D. they had had with them the
suffrages of the most enlightened and impartial people of the other
States as well as of their own. In the States where the Senates, were
chosen in the same manner as the other branches, of the Legislature, and
held their seats for 4 years, the institution was found to be no check
whatever ag^{st} the instabilities of the other branches. He conceived
it to be of great importance that a stable & firm Gov^t, organized in
the republican form should be held out to the people. If this be not
done, and the people be left to judge of this species of Gov^t by y^e
operations of the defective systems under which they now live, it is
much to be feared the time is not distant when, in universal disgust,
they will renounce the blessing which they have purchased at so dear a
rate, and be ready for any change that may be proposed to them.