AN INTERVIEW ON CHIEF JUSTICE COMEGYS.

* Chicago Times, Feb. 14, 1881.

_Question_. Have you read Chief Justice Comegys' compliments to you

before the Delaware grand jury?

_Answer._ Yes, I have read his charge, in which he relies upon the law

passed in 1740. After reading his charge it seemed to me as though he

had died about the date of the law, had risen from the dead, and had

gone right on where he had left off. I presume he is a good man, but

compared with other men, is something like his State when compared with

other States.

A great many people will probably regard the charge of Judge Comegys

as unchristian, but I do not. I consider that the law of Delaware is in

exact accord with the Bible, and that the pillory, the whip-ping-post,

and the suppression of free speech are the natural fruit of the Old and

New Testament.

Delaware is right. Christianity can not succeed, can not exist, without

the protection of law. Take from orthodox Christianity the protection

of law, and all church property would be taxed like other property. The

Sabbath would be no longer a day devoted to superstition. Everyone

could express his honest thought upon every possible subject. Everyone,

notwithstanding his belief, could testify in a court of justice. In

other words, honesty would be on an equality with hypocrisy.

Science would stand on a level, so far as the law is concerned, with

superstition. Whenever this happens the end of orthodox Christianity

will be near.

By Christianity I do not mean charity, mercy, kindness, forgiveness. I

mean no natural virtue, because all the natural virtues existed and had

been practiced by hundreds and thousands of millions before Christ was

born. There certainly were some good men even in the days of Christ in

Jerusalem, before his death.

By Christianity I mean the ideas of redemption, atonement, a good man

dying for a bad man, and the bad man getting a receipt in full. By

Christianity I mean that system that insists that in the next world a

few will be forever happy, while the many will be eternally miserable.

Christianity, as I have explained it, must be protected, guarded, and

sustained by law. It was founded by the sword that is to say, by physical

force,--and must be preserved by like means.

In many of the States of the Union an infidel is not allowed to testify.

In the State of Delaware, if Alexander von Humboldt were living, he

could not be a witness, although he had more brains than the State of

Delaware has ever produced, or is likely to produce as long as the laws

of 1740 remain in force. Such men as Huxley, Tyndall and Haeckel could

be fined and imprisoned in the State of Delaware, and, in fact, in many

States of this Union.

Christianity, in order to defend itself, puts the brand of infamy on

the brow of honesty. Christianity marks with a letter "C," standing for

"convict" every brain that is great enough to discover the frauds. I

have no doubt that Judge Comegys is a good and sincere Christian. I

believe that he, in his charge, gives an exact reflection of the Jewish

Jehovah. I believe that every word he said was in exact accord with

the spirit of orthodox Christianity. Against this man personally I have

nothing to say. I know nothing of his character except as I gather it

from this charge, and after reading the charge I am forced simply to

say, Judge Comegys is a Christian.

It seems, however, that the grand jury dared to take no action,

notwithstanding they had been counseled to do so by the Judge. Although

the Judge had quoted to them the words of George I. of blessed memory;

although he had quoted to them the words of Lord Mansfield, who became

a Judge simply because of his hatred of the English colonists, simply

because he despised liberty in the new world; notwithstanding the fact

that I could have been punished with insult, with imprisonment, and with

stripes, and with every form of degradation; notwithstanding that only a

few years ago I could have been branded upon the forehead, bored through

the tongue, maimed and disfigured, still, such has been the advance even

in the State of Delaware, owing, it may be, in great part to the one

lecture delivered by me, that the grand jury absolutely refused to

indict me.

The grand jury satisfied themselves and their consciences simply by

making a report in which they declared that my lecture had "no parallel

in the habits of respectable vagabondism" that I was "an arch-blasphemer

and reviler of God and religion," and recommended that should I ever

attempt to lecture again I should be taught that in Delaware blasphemy

is a crime punishable by fine and imprisonment. I have no doubt that

every member of the grand jury signing this report was entirely honest;

that he acted in exact accord with what he understood to be the demand

of the Christian religion. I must admit that for Christians, the report

is exceedingly mild and gentle.

I have now in the house, letters that passed between certain bishops in

the fifteenth century, in which they discussed the propriety of cutting

out the tongues of heretics before they were burned. Some of the bishops

were in favor of and some against it. One argument for cutting out their

tongues which seemed to have settled the question was, that unless the

tongues of heretics were cut out they might scandalize the gentlemen

who were burning them, by blasphemous remarks during the fire. I would

commend these letters to Judge Comegys and the members of the grand

jury.

I want it distinctly understood that I have nothing against Judge

Comegys or the grand jury. They act as 'most anybody would, raised in

Delaware, in the shadow of the whipping-post and the pillory. We

must remember that Delaware was a slave State; that the Bible

became extremely dear to the people because it upheld that peculiar

institution. We must remember that the Bible was the block on which

mother and child stood for sale when they were separated by the

Christians of Delaware. The Bible was regarded as the title-pages to

slavery, and as the book of all books that gave the right to masters to

whip mothers and to sell children.

There are many offences now for which the punishment is whipping and

standing in the pillory; where persons are convicted of certain crimes

and sent to the penitentiary, and upon being discharged from the

penitentiary are furnished by the State with a dark jacket plainly

marked on the back with a large Roman "C," the letter to be of a light

color. This they are to wear for six months after being discharged,

and if they are found at any time without the dark jacket and the

illuminated "C" they are to be punished with twenty lashes upon the bare

back. The object, I presume, of this law, is to drive from the State all

the discharged convicts for the benefit of New Jersey, Pennsylvania and

Maryland--that is to say, other Christian communities. A cruel people

make cruel laws.

The objection I have to the whipping-post is that it is a punishment

which cannot be inflicted by a gentleman. The person who administers the

punishment must, of necessity, be fully as degraded as the person who

receives it. I am opposed to any kind of punishment that cannot be

administered by a gentleman. I am opposed to corporal punishment

everywhere. It should be taken from the asylums and penitentiaries, and

any man who would apply the lash to the naked back of another is beneath

the contempt of honest people.

_Question_. Have you seen that Henry Bergh has introduced in the New

York Legislature a bill providing for whipping as a punishment for

wife-beating?

_Answer._ The objection I have mentioned is fatal to Mr. Bergh's bill.

He will be able to get persons to beat wife-beaters, who, under the

same circumstances, would be wife-beaters themselves. If they are not

wife-beaters when they commence the business of beating others, they

soon will be. I think that wife-beating in great cities could be stopped

by putting all the wife-beaters at work at some government employment,

the value of the work, however, to go to the wives and children. The

trouble now is that most of the wife-beating is among the extremely

poor, so that the wife by informing against her husband, takes the last

crust out of her own mouth. If you substitute whipping or flogging for

the prison here, you will in the first place prevent thousands of wives

from informing, and in many cases, where the wife would inform, she

would afterward be murdered by the flogged brute. This brute would

naturally resort to the same means to reform his wife that the State

had resorted to for the purpose of reforming him. Flogging would beget

flogging. Mr. Bergh is a man of great kindness of heart. When he reads

that a wife has been beaten, he says the husband deserves to be beaten

himself. But if Mr. Bergh was to be the executioner, I imagine you could

not prove by the back of the man that the punishment had been inflicted.

Another good remedy for wife-beating is the abolition of the Catholic

Church. We should also do away with the idea that a marriage is a

sacrament, and that there is any God who is rendered happy by seeing a

husband and wife live together, although the husband gets most of his

earthly enjoyment from whipping his wife. No woman should live with

a man a moment after he has struck her. Just as the idea of liberty

enlarges, confidence in the whip and fist, in the kick and blow, will

diminish. Delaware occupies toward freethinkers precisely the same

position that a wife-beater does toward the wife. Delaware knows that

there are no reasons sufficient to uphold Christianity, consequently

these reasons are supplemented with the pillory and the whipping-post.

The whipping-post is considered one of God's arguments, and the pillory

is a kind of moral suasion, the use of which fills heaven with a kind

of holy and serene delight. I am opposed to the religion of brute force,

but all these frightful things have grown principally out of a belief in

eternal punishment and out of the further idea that a certain belief is

necessary to avoid eternal pain.

If Christianity is right, Delaware is right. If God will damn every body

forever simply for being intellectually honest, surely he ought to

allow the good people of Delaware to imprison the same gentleman for two

months. Of course there are thousands and thousands of good people in

Delaware, people who have been in other States, people who have listened

to Republican speeches, people who have read the works of scientists,

who hold the laws of 1740 in utter abhorrence; people who pity Judge

Comegys and who have a kind of sympathy for the grand jury.

You will see that at the last election Delaware lacked only six or seven

hundred of being a civilized State, and probably in 1884 will stand

redeemed and regenerated, with the laws of 1740 expunged from the

statute book. Delaware has not had the best of opportunities. You must

remember that it is next to New Jersey, which is quite an obstacle

in the path of progress. It is just beyond Maryland, which is another

obstacle. I heard the other day that God originally made oysters with

legs, and afterward took them off, knowing that the people of Delaware

would starve to death before they would run to catch anything. Judge

Comegys is the last judge who will make such a charge in the United

States. He has immortalized himself as the last mile-stone on that road.

He is the last of his race. No more can be born. Outside of this he

probably was a very clever man, and it may be, he does not believe

a word he utters. The probability is that he has underestimated the

intelligence of the people of Delaware. I am afraid to think that he is

entirely honest, for fear that I may underestimate him intellectually,

and overestimate him morally. Nothing could tempt me to do this man

injustice, though I could hardly add to the injury he has done himself.

He has called attention to laws that ought to be repealed, and to

lectures that ought to be repeated. I feel in my heart that he has done

me a great service, second only to that for which I am indebted to the

grand jury. Had the Judge known me personally he probably would have

said nothing. Should I have the misfortune to be arrested in his State

and sentenced to two months of solitary confinement, the Judge having

become acquainted with me during the trial, would probably insist on

spending most of his time in my cell. At the end of the two months he

would, I think, lay himself liable to the charge of blasphemy, providing

he had honor enough to express his honest thought. After all, it is

all a question of honesty. Every man is right. I cannot convince myself

there is any God who will ever damn a man for having been honest. This

gives me a certain hope for the Judge and the grand jury.

For two or three days I have been thinking what joy there must have been

in heaven when Jehovah heard that Delaware was on his side, and remarked

to the angels in the language of the late Adjt. Gen. Thomas: "The eyes

of all Delaware are upon you."

The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol. 07 (of 12) Dresden Edition—Discussions · 第 84 / 90 题