* The Cincinnati Gazette, 1878. An Interview.
_Question_. Colonel, have you noticed the criticisms made on your
lectures by the _Cincinnati Gazette_ and the _Catholic Telegraph_?
_Answer._ I have read portions of the articles.
_Question_. What do you think of them?
_Answer._ Well, they are hardly of importance enough to form a distinct
subject of thought.
_Question_. Well, what do you think of the attempted argument of the
_Gazette_ against your lecture on Moses?
_Answer._ The writer endeavors to show that considering the ignorance
prevalent four thousand years ago, God did as well as one could
reasonably expect; that God at that time did not have the advantage
of telescope, microscope, and spectrum, and that for this reason a
few mistakes need not excite our special wonder. He also shows that,
although God was in favor of slavery he introduced some reforms; but
whether the reforms were intended to perpetuate slavery or to help the
slave is not stated. The article has nothing to do with my position. I
am perfectly willing to admit that there is a land called Egypt; that
the Jews were once slaves; that they got away and started a little
country of their own. All this may be true without proving that they
were miraculously fed in the wilderness, or that water ran up hill, or
that God went into partnership with hornets or snakes. There may have
been a man by the name of Moses without proving that sticks were turned
into snakes.
A while ago a missionary addressed a Sunday school. In the course of
his remarks he said that he had been to Mount Ararat, and had brought
a stone from the mountain. He requested the children to pass in line
before him so that they could all get a look at this wonderful stone.
After they had all seen it he said: "You will as you grow up meet people
who will deny that there ever was a flood, or that God saved Noah and
the animals in the ark, and then you can tell them that you know better,
because you saw a stone from the very mountain where the ark rested."
That is precisely the kind of argument used in the _Gazette_. The
article was written by some one who does not quite believe in the
inspiration of the Scriptures himself, and were it not for the fear of
hell, would probably say so.
I admit that there was such a man as Mohammed, such a city as Mecca,
such a general as Omar, but I do not admit that God made known his will
to Mohammed in any substantial manner. Of course the _Gazette_ would
answer all this by saying that Mohammed did exist, and that therefore
God must have talked with him. I admit that there was such a general
as Washington, but I do not admit that God kept him from being shot. I
admit that there is a portrait of the Virgin Mary in Rome, but I do not
admit that it shed tears. I admit that there was such a man as Moses,
but I do not admit that God hunted for him in a tavern to kill him. I
admit that there was such a priest as St. Denis, but I do not admit
that he carried his head in his hand, after it was cut off, and swam the
river, and put his head on again and eventually recovered. I admit
that the article appeared in the _Gazette_, but I do not admit that it
amounted to anything whatever.
_Question_. Did you notice what the _Catholic Telegraph_ said about your
lecture being ungrammatical?
_Answer._ Yes; I saw an extract from it. In the _Catholic Telegraph_
occurs the following: "The lecture was a failure as brilliant as
Ingersoll's flashes of ungrammatical rhetoric." After making this
statement with the hereditary arrogance of a priest, after finding fault
with my "ungrammatical rhetoric" he then writes the following sentence:
"It could not boast neither of novelty in argument or of attractive
language." After this, nothing should be noticed that this gentleman
says on the subject of grammar.
In this connection it may be proper for me to say that nothing is more
remarkable than the fact that Christianity destroys manners. With one
exception, no priest has ever written about me, so far as I know, except
in an arrogant and insolent manner. They seem utterly devoid of the
usual amenities of life. Every one who differs with them is vile,
ignorant and malicious. But, after all, what can you expect of a
gentleman who worships a God who will damn dimpled babes to an eternity
of fire, simply because they were not baptized.
_Question_. This Catholic writer says that the oldest page of history
and the newest page of science are nothing more than commentaries on the
Mosaic Record. He says the Cosmogony of Moses has been believed in, and
has been received as the highest truth by the very brightest names in
science. What do you think of that statement?
_Answer._ I think it is without the least foundation in fact, and is
substantially like the gentleman's theology, depending simply upon
persistent assertion.
I see he quotes Cuvier as great authority. Cuvier denied that the fossil
animals were in any way related to the animals now living, and believed
that God had frequently destroyed all life upon the earth and then
produced other forms. Agassiz was the last scientist of any standing who
ventured to throw a crumb of comfort to this idea.
_Question_. Do you mean to say that all the great living scientists
regard the Cosmogony of Moses as a myth?
_Answer._ I do. I say this: All men of science and men of sense look
upon the Mosaic account as a simple myth. Humboldt, who stands in the
same relation to science that Shakespeare did to the drama, held this
opinion. The same is held by the best minds in Germany, by Huxley,
Tyndall and Herbert Spencer in England, by John W. Draper and others
in the United States. Whoever agrees with Moses is some poor frightened
orthodox gentleman afraid of losing his soul or his salary, and as a
rule, both are exceedingly small.
_Question_. Some people say that you slander the Bible in saying that
God went into partnership with hornets, and declare that there is no
such passage in the Bible.
_Answer._ Well, let them read the twenty-eighth verse of the
twenty-third chapter of Exodus, "And I will send hornets before thee,
which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite and the Hittite from
before thee."
_Question_. Do you find in lecturing through the country that your ideas
are generally received with favor?
_Answer._ Astonishingly so. There are ten times as many freethinkers
as there were five years ago. In five years more we will be in the
majority.
_Question_. Is it true that the churches, as a general thing, make
strong efforts, as I have seen it stated, to prevent people from going
to hear you?
_Answer._ Yes; in many places ministers have advised their congregations
to keep away, telling them I was an exceedingly dangerous man. The
result has generally been a full house, and I have hardly ever failed to
publicly return my thanks to the clergy for acting as my advance agents.
_Question_. Do you ever meet Christian people who try to convert you?
_Answer._ Not often. But I do receive a great many anonymous letters,
threatening me with the wrath of God, and calling my attention to the
uncertainty of life and the certainty of damnation. These letters are
nearly all written in the ordinary Christian spirit; that is to say,
full of hatred and impertinence.
_Question_. Don't you think it remarkable that the _Telegraph_, a
Catholic paper, should quote with extravagant praise, an article from
such an orthodox sheet as the _Gazette_?
_Answer._ I do not. All the churches must make common cause. All
superstitions lead to Rome; all facts lead to science. In a few
years all the churches will be united. This will unite all forms of
liberalism. When that is done the days of superstition, of arrogance,
of theology, will be numbered. It is very laughable to see a Catholic
quoting scientific men in favor of Moses, when the same men would have
taken great pleasure in swearing that the Catholic Church was the
worst possible organization. That church should forever hold its peace.
Wherever it has had authority it has destroyed human liberty. It reduced
Italy to a hand organ, Spain to a guitar, Ireland to exile, Portugal to
contempt. Catholicism is the upas tree in whose shade the intellect of
man has withered. The recollection of the massacre of St. Bartholomew
should make a priest silent, and the recollection of the same massacre
should make a Protestant careful.
I can afford to be maligned by a priest, when the same party denounces
Garibaldi, the hero of Italy, as a "pet tiger" to Victor Emmanuel. I
could not afford to be praised by such a man. I thank him for his abuse.
_Question_. What do you think of the point that no one is able to judge
of these things unless he is a Hebrew scholar?
_Answer._ I do not think it is necessary to understand Hebrew to decide
as to the probability of springs gushing out of dead bones, or of
the dead getting out of their graves, or of the probability of ravens
keeping a hotel for wandering prophets. I hardly think it is necessary
even to be a Greek scholar to make up my mind as to whether devils
actually left a person and took refuge in the bodies of swine. Besides,
if the Bible is not properly translated, the circulation ought to stop
until the corrections are made. I am not accountable if God made a
revelation to me in a language that he knew I never would understand. If
he wishes to convey any information to my mind, he certainly should do
it in English before he eternally damns me for paying no attention to
it.
_Question_. Are not many of the contradictions in the Bible owing to
mistranslations?
_Answer._ No. Nearly all of the mistranslations have been made to help
out the text. It would be much worse, much more contradictory had it
been correctly translated. Nearly all of the _mistakes_, as Mr. Weller
would say, have been made for the purposes of harmony.
_Question_. How many errors do you suppose there are?
_Answer._ Well, I do not know. It has been reported that the American
Bible Society appointed a committee to hunt for errors, and the said
committee returned about twenty-four to twenty-five thousand. And
thereupon the leading men said, to correct so many errors will destroy
the confidence of the common people in the sacredness of the Scriptures.
Thereupon it was decided not to correct any. I saw it stated the other
day that a very prominent divine charged upon the Bible Society that
they knew they were publishing a book full of errors.
_Question_. What is your opinion of the Bible anyhow?
_Answer._ My first objection is, it is not true.
Second.--It is not inspired.
Third.--It upholds human slavery.
Fourth.--It sanctions concubinage.
Fifth.--It commands the most infamously cruel acts of war, such as the
utter destruction of old men and little children.
Sixth.--After killing fathers, mothers and brothers, it commands the
generals to divide the girls among the soldiers and priests. Beyond
this, infamy has never gone. If any God made this order I am opposed to
him.
Seventh.--It upholds human sacrifice, or, at least, seems to, from the
following:
"Notwithstanding no devoted thing that a man shall devote unto the Lord
of all that he hath, both of _man_ and _beast_, and of the field of his
possession, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted thing is most holy
unto the Lord."
"None devoted, which shall be devoted, of men, shall be redeemed; but
shall surely be put to death." (Twenty-seventh Chapter of Leviticus,
28th and 29th verses.)
Eighth.--Its laws are absurd, and the punishments cruel and unjust.
Think of killing a man for making hair oil! Think of killing a man for
picking up sticks on Sunday!
Ninth.--It upholds polygamy.
Tenth.--It knows nothing of astronomy, nothing of geology, nothing of
any science whatever.
Eleventh.--It is opposed to religious liberty, and teaches a man to kill
his own wife if she differs with him on religion; that is to say, if he
is orthodox. There is no book in the world in which can be found so much
that is thoroughly despicable and infamous. Of course there are some
good passages, some good sentiments. But they are, at least in the Old
Testament, few and far between.
Twelfth.--It treats woman like a beast, and man like a slave. It fills
heaven with tyranny, and earth with hypocrisy and grief.
_Question_. Do you think any book inspired?
_Answer._ No. I do not think any book is inspired. But, if it had been
the intention of this God to give to man an inspired book, he should
have waited until Shakespeare's time, and used Shakespeare as the
instrument. Then there never would have been any doubt as to the
inspiration of the book. There is more beauty, more goodness, more
intelligence in Shakespeare than in all the sacred books of this world.
_Question_. What do you think as a freethinker of the Sunday question in
Cincinnati?
_Answer._ I think that it is a good thing to have a day of recreation, a
day of rest, a day of joy, not a day of dyspepsia and theology. I am
in favor of operas and theaters, music and happiness on Sunday. I am
opposed to all excesses on any day. If the clergy will take half
the pains to make the people intelligent that they do to make them
superstitious, the world will soon have advanced so far that it can
enjoy itself without excess. The ministers want Sunday for themselves.
They want everybody to come to church because they can go no where
else. It is like the story of a man coming home at three o'clock in the
morning, who, upon being asked by his wife how he could come at such a
time of night, replied, "The fact is, every other place is shut up." The
orthodox clergy know that their churches will remain empty if any other
place remains open. Do not forget to say that I mean orthodox churches,
orthodox clergy, because I have great respect for Unitarians and
Universalists.