Mr. JENNER. I am interrupting you, I am sorry. Were there any other
pieces of luggage, first?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER. So there were two or three or possibly four, is that true,
suitcases?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And there was a zipper case?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Describe this zipper case to us first.
Mrs. PAINE. It stood about so high [indicating].
Mr. JENNER. So high is 15 inches, about 30 inches long?
Mrs. PAINE. Not quite, about that long [indicating].
Mr. JENNER. It was a generous sized zipper case?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. With generally green canvas and leather, dark-colored
leather.
Mr. JENNER. Black or brown--do you remember the color?
Mrs. PAINE. Dark brown, I guess, or black, certainly very dark.
Mr. JENNER. It was a generous sized one, was it not?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did it appear to be well packed?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Would you describe each of the three suitcases now, with
particular reference to the staff being interested in whether they were
rectangular, whether they were hard boarded types of things, or whether
they were canvas or soft?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't remember how many there were. I recall they had a
hard composition kind of suitcase such as you don't buy here, and I
judge they were bought in the Soviet Union. I think there may have been
two of those.
Mr. JENNER. Was any one of them rectangular in shape?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. That was rectangular.
Mr. JENNER. The one you specifically have in mind, he did have a
rectangular one?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And what color was it?
Mrs. PAINE. Dark, blackish green, or dark brown, something of this
nature.
Mr. JENNER. Anything else you can think about it in the way of
description?
Mrs. PAINE. I think it had--it was reinforced, corners, with rivets, or
bolts, of something to hold it, hold the corners on it.
Mr. DULLES. How long was this rectangular suitcase?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall. In fact, I can't recall whether it was one
or two, but something like that, normal suitcases.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Chairman, may I have your permission to approach the
witness?
Mr. McCLOY. And take the measurements?
Mrs. PAINE. And take the measurements.
Mr. McCLOY. The witness may be approached.
Mrs. PAINE. That or larger, I would say.
Mr. JENNER. You are now describing the length of the rectangular
suitcase, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And that would be 21-1/2 inches?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. That is your best recollection?
Mrs. PAINE. I am brief in my recollection, a normal rectangular shape
here.
Mr. JENNER. Width, that is the side, you mean?
Mrs. PAINE. That is the whole thing. That is looking at the top. How
high it is.
Mr. JENNER. No; wide.
Mrs. PAINE. I am filling it out. This would be the width then from here
to here, possibly more.
Mr. JENNER. Fourteen inches?
Mrs. PAINE. I am not sure I am recalling one or two at the same time. I
have to be under oath, and giving you details on things I don't recall
that well.
Mr. JENNER. All we are seeking is your best recollection.
Mrs. PAINE. All right, that is my best recollection.
Mr. JENNER. Twenty-one and a half times fourteen, and how high was it?
Mrs. PAINE. About so, 6, about 6.
Mr. JENNER. I said high. Was this lying flat on its side when you saw
it?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, all these things again I saw in the fall, so it is a
mixed recollection.
Mr. JENNER. I am going to get as to what you saw in the fall, but it is
important to us as to what you saw on this occasion.
Mrs. PAINE. Well, I particularly recall the duffels because they are
unusual, and I recall this bag being, I judge Russian make rather than
American, it was a large zipper bag.
Mr. JENNER. And Mrs. Paine, you do recall that zipper bag on this
occasion?
Mrs. PAINE. I believe so.
Mr. JENNER. And there was at least one, if not more than one,
rectangular----
Mrs. PAINE. I can't be certain of the zipper bag.
Mr. JENNER. Hard-sided suitcase?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; hard-sided suitcase. I can't be certain, absolutely
certain, of the zipper bag. I recall seeing so much of it since,
tripped over it numerous times, that it may be just that I recalled it.
I didn't move this luggage at all.
Mr. JENNER. I am not suggesting that you did.
Mrs. PAINE. I am sorry I can't remember it better.
Mr. JENNER. Were all of these suitcases about the same size and shape?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You have described the rectangular one. Would you now
describe the second, the second in order of your recollection?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, there was at least another rectangular one.
Mr. JENNER. Hard-sided?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was it larger or smaller than the one you have described?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall with certainty.
Mr. JENNER. Was there a third?
Mrs. PAINE. There may have been a third. I certainly recall this radio
that was unusual. The others I don't.
Mr. JENNER. It is possible you might be confused between the radio case
and a suitcase.
Mrs. PAINE. No, no; no possibility of that.
Mr. JENNER. All right. He checked all these articles, checked them into
the bus station?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And did you and Lee and Marina return to their home?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Did you remain there?
Mrs. PAINE. No. He then helped pack up the remaining things, the
playpen, the bed, and then we left there midafternoon, perhaps 4, all
of this must have taken quite a long time, because----
Mr. JENNER. They removed everything from their home?
Mrs. PAINE. They removed everything that remained to them.
Mr. JENNER. Put it in the station wagon?
Mrs. PAINE. Put it in the station wagon and went with Lee and Marina.
Mr. JENNER. Your station wagon was big enough to hold everything in the
house, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, they had no furniture, but it held all the rest of
their things; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did he do the packing?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What were you doing in the meantime?
Mrs. PAINE. Packing was haphazard, this packing was haphazard; put the
dishes in a box and carried it out to the car.
Mr. JENNER. It was in the open so you could see what went into your car?
Mrs. PAINE. I think so. I certainly then repacked it to go to New
Orleans.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I want to stick with this occasion, please.
Mrs. PAINE. All right.
Mr. JENNER. Was there a rifle packed in the back of the car?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You didn't see any kind of weapon?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Firearm, rifle, pistol, or otherwise?
Mrs. PAINE. No; I saw nothing of that nature.
Mr. JENNER. Did you drive them to your home?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Were the materials and things in your station wagon
unpacked and placed in your home?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; immediately.
Mr. JENNER. Did you see that being done, were you present?
Mrs. PAINE. I helped do it; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you see any weapon on that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE. No.