Mrs. PAINE. It was in Russian.
Mr. JENNER. It was in Russian. When people spoke with each other other
than with Marina, it was in English, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE. That is my best recollection.
Mr. JENNER. Now, in very short compass what was your impression of Mr.
Oswald at that initial party?
Mrs. PAINE. I thought he was pleased to be interesting to this group
of people and glad to tell them about his experience, to answer their
questions. He seemed open and forthright. I did wonder as he was
talking about it whether he had come to the conclusion after being in
the Soviet Union that their system was inferior.
Mr. JENNER. Inferior to ours?
Mrs. PAINE. To ours, or whether he still thought that the Soviet system
was a better one. His discussion of the censorship made me feel that
he wanted his listeners to know that he was not blind to the defects
of the Soviet system, but it did not convince me that he was in favor
of the American system. I was left wondering which country he thought
conducted itself better.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have an interest in the Oswalds at this moment
wholly apart from your interest in the Russian language?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Were you intellectually curious about them is all I meant.
Mrs. PAINE. Oh, yes. Well, it is most unusual to take such a step as he
took.
Mr. JENNER. Had you had some notice in advance of this meeting, Mrs.
Paine, of the fact that Mr. Oswald was at least--there had been
publications of his having been a defector?
Mrs. PAINE. No; I wasn't aware of that.
Mr. JENNER. When did you first learn of that?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, a name is always given to someone who goes to the
Soviet Union and wants to have citizenship there, isn't it, so I could
well have assumed that there had been such, but I really didn't learn
about it until after the assassination, I guess. No; I take it back.
There was a reference now.
Mr. JENNER. That evening?
Mrs. PAINE. Specific recall. It is coming. The content of Robert's
letter to him, as I recall, included a clipping from the Fort Worth
newspapers relative to his defection.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, Mrs. Paine, you are talking about a letter of
Robert Oswald's?
Mrs. PAINE. A letter from Robert to Lee which Lee never got but heard
about when he came back to the States.
Mr. JENNER. And that was the subject of discussion that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. That came up, so, therefore, I did know that he had been
called a defector.
Mr. JENNER. Did Robert refer to this letter or did someone in the
meeting refer to the letter?
Mrs. PAINE. Lee referred to the letter in discussion of censorship.
Mr. JENNER. But up until that moment, you had not had any prior
impression with respect to whether he had been a defector or an
attempted defector?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, I think, yes; I had some impression of that sort,
but it came directly from Lee. He said he went to the Soviet Union
and tried to give up his American citizenship, and as I recall, he
said that the American embassy did not relinquish his passport, and,
therefore, he was not eligible to get Soviet citizenship.
Mr. JENNER. You are remembering more now.
Mrs. PAINE. I am.
Mr. JENNER. I am pleased that you are, Mrs. Paine. He did discuss his
attempts to obtain----
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. To surrender his passport and to accomplish his Soviet
citizenship?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And that was openly discussed in this gathering?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. McCLOY. This is Senator Cooper, a member of the Commission, Mrs.
Paine.
Mrs. PAINE. How do you do?
Mr. JENNER. This party, I gather, lasted approximately from 7 to 12,
did you say?
Mrs. PAINE. Eight to eleven-thirty or twelve.
Mr. JENNER. And the party broke up, and you went home?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What was your overall impression of Marina Oswald?
Mrs. PAINE. I had very little impression altogether. I did ask for her
address.
Mr. JENNER. Why did you do that?
Mrs. PAINE. And I asked if I could write her. I wanted to go visit her
at her home.
Mr. JENNER. Why?
Mrs. PAINE. To talk Russian. She is very hard to find, a person
speaking modern Russian, and in fact I know of no other, and this was
an opportunity for me to again practice in the language, a rather
unusual opportunity, and I was interested in meeting her and getting to
know her.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Chairman, I will go back and develop this lady's
interest in the Russian language during the course of the examination,
and her prior study of the language up to this point. She did have an
abiding interest in the language at this particular point, but I wanted
to get at the initial meeting first before anything further.
Mr. McCLOY. Very well.
Mr. JENNER. You say modern Russian, that Marina Oswald had a command of
modern Russian. Would you please explain to us what you mean by that?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, I am not in a position to judge a person, whether a
person is speaking modern Russian or not. My language is not that good,
but she talked with--this was later, I only assumed that she had--I
hoped that she spoke good Russian. I didn't know at that time whether
she spoke educated Russian or not. Shall I jump ahead?
Mr. JENNER. Well, I wish you wouldn't. You meant, then, by your
expression that you hoped to find that she did speak educated Russian?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; right.
Mr. JENNER. And if she did, that then you might profit or learn from
her educated Russian to a greater degree than you knew it as of that
time? That was your main interest at the moment?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Aside from interests in another lady or human being under
those circumstances?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, until I then got to know her it was my only interest.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. That is the point I was seeking to make. Did you
become better acquainted with the Oswalds thereafter?