The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order.
Commander Humes, will you please step up. You know, Commander, what
we have met for today to take your testimony concerning the autopsy
and anything else you might know concerning the assassination of the
President.
Would you raise your right hand, please?
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give before this Commission
will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Commander HUMES. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. Will you be seated?
You may proceed.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Humes, will you state your full name for the record,
please?
Commander HUMES. James Joseph Humes.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is your profession or occupation, please?
Commander HUMES. I am a physician and employed by the Medical
Department of the United States Navy.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your rank in the Navy?
Commander HUMES. Commander, Medical Corps. United States Navy.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you receive your education, Commander Humes,
please.
Commander HUMES. I had my undergraduate training at St. Joseph's
College at Villanova University in Philadelphia. I received my medical
degree in 1948 from the Jefferson Medical College of Philadelphia.
I received my internship and my postgraduate training in my special
field of interest in Pathology in various Naval hospitals, and at the
Armed Forces Institute of Pathology at Walter Reed in Washington, D.C.
Mr. SPECTER. What do your current duties involve?
Commander HUMES. My current title is Director of Laboratories of the
Naval Medical School at Naval Medical Center at Bethesda. I am charged
with the responsibility of the overall supervision of all of the
laboratory operations in the Naval medical center, two broad areas, one
in the field of anatomic pathology which comprises examining surgical
specimens and postmortem examinations and then the rather large field
of clinical pathology which takes in examination of the blood and
various body fluids.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you been certified by the American Board of Pathology?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; both in anatomic pathology and in clinical
pathology in 1955.
Mr. SPECTER. What specific experience have you had, if any, with
respect to gunshot wounds?
Commander HUMES. My type of practice, which fortunately has been in
peacetime endeavor to a great extent, has been more extensive in the
field of natural disease than violence. However, on several occasions
in various places where I have been employed, I have had to deal with
violent death, accidents, suicides, and so forth. Also I have had
training at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, I have completed
a course in forensic pathology there as part of my training in the
overall field of pathology.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to participate in the autopsy of the
late John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your specific function in connection with that
autopsy?
Commander HUMES. As the senior pathologist assigned to the Naval
Medical Center, I was called to the Center by my superiors and informed
that the President's body would be brought to our laboratories for an
examination, and I was charged with the responsibility of conducting
and supervising this examination; told to also call upon anyone whom I
wished as an assistant in this matter, that I deemed necessary to be
present.
Mr. SPECTER. Who did assist you, if anyone, in the course of the
autopsy?
Commander HUMES. My first assistant was Commander J. Thornton Boswell,
whose position is Chief of Pathology at the Naval Medical School, and
my other assistant was Lt. Col. Pierre Finck, who is in the wound
ballistics section of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.
When I ascertained the nature of the President's wounds, having had
the facilities of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology offered to
me by General Blumberg, the commanding officer of that institution, I
felt it advisable and would be of help to me to have the services of an
expert in the field of wound ballistics and for that reason I requested
Colonel Finck to appear.
Mr. SPECTER. Tell us who else in a general way was present at the time
the autopsy was conducted in addition to you three doctors, please?
Commander HUMES. This, I must preface by saying it will be somewhat
incomplete. My particular interest was on the examination of the
President and not of the security measures of the other people who were
present.
However, the Surgeon General of the Navy was present at one time or
another. Admiral Galloway, the Commanding Officer of the National Naval
Medical Center; my own commanding officer, Captain John H. Stover of
the Naval Medical School, Dr. John Ebersole, one of the radiologists
assigned to the Naval Hospital, Bethesda, who assisted with X-ray
examinations which were made. These are the chief names, sir; that I
can recall.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did the autopsy start approximately?
Commander HUMES. The president's body was received at 25 minutes before
8, and the autopsy began at approximately 8 p.m. on that evening.
You must include the fact that certain X-rays and other examinations
were made before the actual beginning of the routine type autopsy
examination.
Mr. SPECTER. Precisely what X-rays or photographs were taken before the
dissection started?
Commander HUMES. Some of these X-rays were taken before and some during
the examination, which also maintains for the photographs, which were
made as the need became apparent to make such.
However, before the postmortem examination was begun, anterior,
posterior and lateral X-rays of the head, and of the torso were made,
and identification type photographs, I recall having been made of the
full face of the late President. A photograph showing the massive
head wound with the large defect that was associated with it. To my
recollection all of these were made before the proceedings began.
Several others, approximately 15 to 20 in number, were made in total
before we finished the proceedings.
Mr. SPECTER. Now were those X-rays or photographs or both when you
referred to the total number?
Commander HUMES. By the number I would say they are in number 15 to 20.
There probably was ten or 12 X-ray films exposed in addition.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did this autopsy end?
Commander HUMES. At approximately 11 p.m.
Mr. SPECTER. What wounds did you observe on the late President, if any?
Commander HUMES. The wounds which we observed on the President
were--excuse me, at this point might I use the charts which I have
prepared?
Would that be appropriate?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes; would you like to start with the neck wound?
Commander HUMES. All right, sir.
I might preface my remarks by stating that the President's body was
received in our morgue in a closed casket. We opened the casket, Dr.
Boswell and I, and the President's body was unclothed in the casket,
was wrapped in a sheet labeled by the Parkland Hospital, but he was
unclothed once the sheet was removed from his body so we do not have at
that time any clothing.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Humes, before you identify what that represents let me
place Commission Exhibit No. 385 on it so it may be identified.
(The drawing was marked Commission Exhibit No. 385 for identification.)
Commander HUMES. When appraised of the necessity for our appearance
before this Commission, we did not know whether or not the photographs
which we had made would be available to the Commission. So to assist in
making our testimony more understandable to the Commission members, we
decided to have made drawings, schematic drawings, of the situation as
we saw it, as we recorded it and as we recall it. These drawings were
made under my supervision and that of Dr. Boswell by Mr. Rydberg, whose
initials are H. A. He is a hospital corpsman, second class, and a
medical illustrator in our command at Naval Medical School.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you provide him with the basic information from which
these drawings were made?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Distances, that sort of thing?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir. We had made certain physical measurements of
the wounds, and of their position on the body of the late President,
and we provided these and supervised directly Mr. Rydberg in making
these drawings.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you checked the drawings subsequent to their
preparation to verify their accuracy?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And proportion?
Commander HUMES. I must state these drawings are in part schematic.
The artist had but a brief period of some 2 days to prepare these.
He had no photographs from which to work, and had to work under our
description, verbal description, of what we had observed.
Mr. SPECTER. Would it be helpful to the artist, in redefining the
drawings if that should become necessary, to have available to him the
photographs or X-rays of the President?
Commander HUMES. If it were necessary to have them absolutely true to
scale. I think it would be virtually impossible for him to do this
without the photographs.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is the reason for the necessity for having the
photographs?
Commander HUMES. I think that it is most difficult to transmit into
physical measurements the--by word the--exact situation as it was seen
to the naked eye. The photographs were--there is no problem of scale
there because the wounds, if they are changed in size or changed in
size and proportion to the structures of the body and so forth, when
we attempt to give a description of these findings, it is the bony
prominences, I cannot, which we used as points of references, I cannot,
transmit completely to the illustrator where they were situated.
Mr. SPECTER. Is the taking of photographs and X-rays routine or is this
something out of the ordinary?
Commander HUMES. No, sir; this is quite routine in cases of this sort
of violent death in our training. In the field of forensic pathology
we have found that the photographs and X-rays are of most value, the
X-rays particularly in finding missiles which have a way of going
in different directions sometimes, and particularly as documentary
evidence these are considered invaluable in the field of forensic
pathology.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you now proceed to show us what Commission Exhibit
385 depicts, please?
Commander HUMES. Actually, I think, sir, at this time the view from the
posterior aspect would also be of value to the Commission.