Mr. GREGORY. He also mentioned that he saw some book on Marxism,
whether it was Das Kapital or some other book I don't recall now,
but he saw a book on Marxism in Lee's residence when they lived on
Mercedes Street in Fort Worth.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he say in words or substance that he thought that
Oswald was a half-baked Communist?
Mr. GREGORY. I think that is the expression he used, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, did there--did you ever go to Oswald's own apartment?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes, I went there once to take Paul to his lesson. I, in
other words I visited in their so-called living room once, when they
lived on Mercedes Street.
Mr. LIEBELER. In Fort Worth?
Mr. GREGORY. In Fort Worth, yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us what the conditions in their home were
like?
Mr. GREGORY. It was practically a bare room. There was no furniture to
speak of. There was the bare necessities; there was no playpen or crib
for the baby. The baby was playing in the middle of the floor in the
living room, as I remember. It was an extremely primitively furnished
room, and the rest of the house was the same way.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any impression as to whether the Oswald baby
was being adequately cared for?
Mr. GREGORY. No; that I don't know. I do know this, that Oswald showed
outward signs of love toward the baby. He would pucker his lips and
this and that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Indicating that he had affection for the child?
Mr. GREGORY. For the child.
Mr. LIEBELER. At that visit did you have any discussion with Oswald
about living conditions or anything else in Russia?
Mr. GREGORY. No, sir; I simply took Paul in for that lesson, and I left
before the lesson began.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, did there come a time when you held a dinner party
to which you invited Mr. Oswald?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes. Well, really, it was not a dinner party. It was a
small dinner. I mentioned the fact that Marina Oswald went to school
in Leningrad, formerly St. Petersburg prior to the revolution, and
a friend of mine, George Bouhe of Dallas, who is an accountant, was
born and raised in St. Petersburg. He indicated to me that he would
like to meet Marina Oswald and his fellow townswoman and townsman, so
I discussed it with my wife, and she thought she will invite Marina
Oswald and Lee Oswald and Mr. Bouhe, and a friend of Mr. Bouhe, Mrs.
Meller of Dallas, to their dinner. I am sure Paul was at home at that
time, so there were six of us at the dinner and my wife and my son.
Mr. LIEBELER. Will you tell us when the dinner was held?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes; it was before Paul went back to school so I assume it
was in the early party of September, maybe it was late in August.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Bouhe is a native born Russian?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes; he was born in St. Petersburg.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about Mrs. Meller?
Mr. GREGORY. I assume Mrs. Meller was born in Ukrania.
Mr. LIEBELER. During this dinner party was there any discussion between
Mrs. Meller and Mr. Bouhe with the Oswalds concerning their background,
experiences in Russia?
Mr. GREGORY. The conversation, as I recall it, centered mostly on St.
Petersburg. Bouhe brought with him his albums of St. Petersburg, and he
was asking her and they were both looking at the pictures, and is such
and such statue on the main street of St. Petersburg, and so on and so
forth. I think that was the gist of the conversation.
They also discussed the present day life in the Soviet Union. I do
recall, the conversation was mostly with Marina, and she did not speak
any English at that time, so all of that conversation was in the
Russian language, which my wife does not understand at all.
I remembered that Lee Oswald hazarded, he would interject into the
conversation, and he was a little bit critical of the attitude of the
Soviet Government toward its own people, and here is what I am trying
to say; he said they make the best shoes in Minsk for export, and
the people get the--and I think he indicated his own shoes, which he
still wore at that time. Then just very, very slight criticism, not
politically, but sort of in the sense of economics that the people were
not getting the best products, they were all for export.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, at that time was there any indication that Oswald
was better treated than other people in the Soviet Union or did you
maintain the impression throughout your acquaintance with Oswald that
he was treated similarly to other Russians?
Mr. GREGORY. That was my impression, that he was treated the same as
other Russians.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you detect any friction between Marina Oswald and Lee
Oswald at this dinner?
Mr. GREGORY. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was there any indication at that time that Lee Oswald had
beaten his wife in any way?
Mr. GREGORY. Not at that time; no, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see any indication that Marina Oswald had
been beaten?
Mr. GREGORY. No, sir; I haven't seen it personally. I have heard
reports from my friends that he did mistreat her physically, and that
he had blackened her eyes, and once even extinguished a cigarette on
her shoulder, something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who told you that?
Mr. GREGORY. To the best of my recollection it was either--I think it
was Bouhe or it could have been Mrs. Meller, but I believe it was Bouhe.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was at a time subsequent to this dinner party?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes, sir; subsequent. It was after the assassination of
the President.
Mr. LIEBELER. That Bouhe told you?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald at all discuss the reason why he went to
Russia?
Mr. GREGORY. No; he just told me, you know once, the very first time I
met him that he went there on his own.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he indicate any desire to return to Russia?
Mr. GREGORY. I learned subsequently that he did but he never indicated
it to me.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether Oswald maintained contacts with
people that he had associated with in Russia?
Mr. GREGORY. None to my knowledge.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't know that he wrote them letters?
Mr. GREGORY. No, sir. Excuse me, sir, when you asked me about his
relations with Marina Oswald, I don't know whether this is of any
importance or not, but during my first visit at their apartment
on Mercedes Street in Fort Worth, the second time I saw Marina, I
suggested to him that he should insist that she learn English as
quickly as possible because it would be so much easier for her to get
along in this country, and he replied that he would prefer that she
did not learn English at all or else he would lose his fluency in the
Russian language.
So it showed to me that he didn't particularly care about her. He cared
more about himself.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you say anything to him in response to that?
Mr. GREGORY. No, sir; I was frankly very much disgusted with that sort
of attitude.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald ever come to your office?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes, he came to my office once or twice more. Once I
was in the office when he came, and at that time, apparently he was
downtown, my office is downtown in Fort Worth, he brought with him some
typewritten sheets which he told me he was writing his memoirs of his
life in the Soviet Union.
I remember seeing, I did not read the manuscripts at all, but I saw
some snapshots or photographs attached to some typewritten sheets.
Mr. LIEBELER. During this time that you--did you have any other
contacts with Oswald?
Mr. GREGORY. Well, he came to the office once more but I was not in the
office, my secretary told me that he came by.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what he came to your office for? Did he
indicate any particular reason for coming there?
Mr. GREGORY. I don't recall. I don't know why he came back. Frankly,
I don't remember. Here is something else that--one of the newspaper
reporters came to the office and asked me if I would deliver a letter
to Oswald, a reporter who tried several times to contact Oswald and get
the story of his life or something like that, and they simply refused
to see him. Why he choose me, I don't know. How he learned that Oswald
came to my office, I don't know. But this man came and asked me to
deliver this letter to Oswald the next time he came to the office, and
I remember now that he did come once or twice more because I handed him
that letter, and Oswald took it and put it in his pocket.
Representative FORD. When were these visits, the second and third
visits to your office?
Mr. GREGORY. I would say that was probably during the month of July
1962.
Representative FORD. 1962.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald ever ask you to help him work on a book?
Mr. GREGORY. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. That he was working on?
Mr. GREGORY. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Other than these contacts we have discussed, did you have
any other contacts with Oswald ever?
Mr. GREGORY. Well, I was at home when my son Paul answered a telephone
call from Lee Oswald and he asked if Paul would come to get them, I
guess they were at his brother's, they were going to Dallas, they moved
to Dallas by then, so it must have been in October or maybe it was----
Mr. LIEBELER. Was it Thanksgiving?
Mr. GREGORY. It could have been Thanksgiving. It was Thanksgiving.
It was Thanksgiving Day. Paul went to Oswald, Robert Oswald, and
brought Marina and Lee Oswald and the baby to the house. He fixed
some sandwiches for them and he took them to the bus station and they
went to Dallas where they had already established residence. That
was the last time I saw Lee Oswald and Marina Oswald until after the
assassination of the President.
Mr. LIEBELER. On the basis of your contacts with Lee Oswald during this
period of time, did you form any judgment of him?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes, sir; I think I did. He impressed me as a man that,
first, he carried some sort of a chip on his shoulder. I also had the
impression that, probably unfounded on my part, I don't know, I just
formed that impression, that he, Lee Oswald, felt that he did not get
proper recognition from the people, say, in the United States, maybe
even in the Soviet Union. I don't know. In other words, I felt like he
thought that he was a better man than the other people thought he was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have the feeling that he desired to achieve
recognition?
Mr. GREGORY. That is my distinct impression of him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any opinion as to whether he was ever able
to command this recognition and respect that he was seeking?
Mr. GREGORY. I don't think so.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you think he was an intelligent person?
Mr. GREGORY. Fairly.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think he was capable of performing an act such as
an assassination of a President?
Mr. GREGORY. Definitely.
Mr. LIEBELER. What do you base that opinion on?
Mr. GREGORY. Well, he was a Marine; he, as I said, he carried a chip
on his shoulder. From the best--from what I have read and so forth, I
personally am of the opinion that he assassinated the President.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well now, based on your knowledge of him prior to the
assassination did you have any reason to believe that he might do such
a thing?
Mr. GREGORY. Prior to that time, no, sir. I didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't regard him as a dangerous individual or
something of that sort, did you?
Mr. GREGORY. Well, I thought he was--I did not think he was an
unbalanced person or crazy person or anything like that. I would say he
was sort of, I would say I thought he was sort of a peculiar person but
I never thought he would do an act like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever make the acquaintance of the mother?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us about that?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes. As I mentioned earlier, I teach Russian once a
week at the library. We started a new series of lessons on November
12, 1963, and in my class there was a lady by the name of Marguerite
Oswald. Frankly, I never connected her with Lee Oswald. Oswald was
just a name to me, and I did not learn about it until the day of the
assassination. Or the next day, the next day, that she was his mother.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Mrs. Oswald call you on the telephone at any time
after the assassination?