The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order.
Mrs. Ford, I would just like to read to you a short statement
concerning the purpose of the meeting.
I think you have had a copy of it but I will just read it for the
record.
Mrs. FORD. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. The purpose of this hearing is to take the testimony of
Mr. and Mrs. Declan P. Ford and Mr. Peter Paul Gregory. The Commission
has been advised that Mr. and Mrs. Ford made the acquaintance of the
Oswalds shortly after their arrival in the United States in June
of 1962, and that Mrs. Marina Oswald lived in the Ford home on two
different occasions in November 1962, and for a period following
February 12, 1964.
The Commission has also been advised that Mr. Gregory was contacted by
Mr. Lee Harvey Oswald shortly after Mr. Oswald's return from Russia as
a result of which Mr. and Mrs. Oswald made the acquaintance of a large
number of Russian-speaking people in the Dallas and Fort Worth area.
Since the Commission is inquiring fully into the background and
possible motive of Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin, it intends
to ask the above witnesses questions concerning Mr. Oswald, his
associations and relations with others and any and all other matters
relating to the assassination.
Would you please rise and be sworn, Mrs. Ford.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give before the Commission will
be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mrs. FORD. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. You may be seated. Mr. Liebeler will conduct the
examination.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?
Mrs. FORD. My maiden name?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mrs. FORD. Katrina Evstratova.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where were you born, Mrs. Ford?
Mrs. FORD. Nova Tchkarsk.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you tell us just briefly how you came to come to
the United States, Mrs. Ford?
Mrs. FORD. How I came to the United States; I was in Germany during the
war. I was taken there by Germans, not in concentration camps, but in
labor camp, and after we were liberated by Americans I got acquainted
with an American soldier and was married to him, and that is how I came
straight to Dallas.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was this soldier's name that you married?
Mrs. FORD. Skotnicki.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you were married to him in about 1946?
Mrs. FORD. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you subsequently divorced him?
Mrs. FORD. Approximately 4 years ago, a little over 4 years.
Mr. LIEBELER. I want to ask you a few questions about Mr. Skotnicki and
some of the people that he knew.
Do you still have any friends that were your friends when you were
married to Mr. Skotnicki?
Mrs. FORD. Yes; I would think, some neighbors, I would say that we
would be still--we don't see together, acquaintances together with
those friends but I am sure they are still friendly. He is still
friendly with the same people as I am. I would say Campbells down on
6468 Lane, the old house still stands there I would think he would
still be friendly with them, and I know them very well.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't continue to see Mr. Skotnicki in any way, do
you?
Mrs. FORD. No, no; I have no reason for it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether or not Mr. Skotnicki has a friend by
the name of John M. Grizzaffi? That is spelled G-r-i-z-z-a-f-f-i.
Mrs. FORD. I think that he is friends, yes. It is a neighbor across the
street. He was friendly with that man.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us just a little bit about Mr. Grizzaffi,
if you know about him?
Mrs. FORD. I think he is in grocery business, that is what I know about
him, and I believe, I wouldn't say he is busy in local politics but
he is always talking about people he knows around town that are in
politics, and that is about all I know. I was never very friendly with
his wife and so I just know a little bit about him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether Mr. Grizzaffi is a friend of Jack
Ruby's?
Mrs. FORD. That I don't know. I was told by my son that Mr. Grizzaffi
knew Ruby.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your son told you that?
Mrs. FORD. My young son.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is you son's name?
Mrs. FORD. My son's name is Gary.
Mr. LIEBELER. How old is he?
Mrs. FORD. Twelve.
Mr. LIEBELER. He is a son by Mr. Skotnicki?
Mrs. FORD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is he living with you and Mr. Ford?
Mrs. FORD. He lives with me.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether Mr. Skotnicki knew the Oswalds?
Mrs. FORD. No; I don't think he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether he knew anything about the Oswalds?
Mrs. FORD. Unless something was told by my son or something, by
children. I don't think he knew them personally.
Mr. LIEBELER. You yourself didn't have any conversations with Mr.
Skotnicki about the Oswalds?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. I want to go through a list of names which I will go
through fairly quickly and ask you if you recognize any of these names
or if you know any of the people.
Do you know a gentleman by the name of George Senator?
Mrs. FORD. No; I don't.
Mr. LIEBELER. How about a man by the name of Ralph Paul?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Andrew Armstrong?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know a lady by the name of Karen Bennett?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Bruce Carlin?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know a man by the name of Roy William Pike?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. How about Larry Crafard?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You yourself don't know Jack Ruby in any way?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Does Mr. Ford know Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. FORD. No; I don't thing so; no.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know a lady by the name of Earlene Roberts?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mary Bledsoe?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Bertha Cheek?
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. John Carter.
Mrs. FORD. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. How about Mr. and Mrs. A. C. Johnson?
Mrs. FORD. A. C. Johnson, I don't think so.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know of any connection between Mr. Oswald, Lee
Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby?
Mrs. FORD. No; I don't know. I don't know that they knew each other.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell the Commission, Mrs. Ford, how you first
met the Oswalds?
Mrs. FORD. We were invited there after lunch, the Oswalds had a
luncheon at Anna Meller's house, and we were invited after luncheon to
meet them, and that was our first contact with them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell me when that was, approximately?
Mrs. FORD. I would say it was approximately at the end of August of
1962.
Mr. LIEBELER. Will you tell us who was at the luncheon?
Mrs. FORD. I believe there was Mr. and Mrs. Ted Meller and George Bouhe
and the Oswalds and ourselves, I believe that is all I remember.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who first told you about the Oswalds? Did you hear of
them the first time that you came to that luncheon or had you heard of
them before?
Mrs. FORD. I had heard of them maybe a couple of weeks before from Mr.
George Bouhe, I believe, who had told us that there was a young Russian
girl came to Fort Worth and the man was out of a job, and that was the
reason for us to try to help them. And she had a baby and so forth.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Mr. Bouhe tell you anything else about the Oswalds?
Mrs. FORD. No; he was just telling that the man was having a very hard
time finding a job because the last job he had was in Minsk or so.
Mr. LIEBELER. He told you that Mr. Oswald had been in Russia?
Mrs. FORD. Yes; he did. He told us about that he was in Russia and
decided to come back and he brought a Russian wife with him who didn't
speak English and had a tiny baby and both were having a very hard time
at the moment.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Mr. Bouhe tell you anything about the circumstances
under which Mr. Oswald went to Russia?
Mrs. FORD. No; nothing like that was discussed.
Mr. LIEBELER. At the luncheon at which you and your husband, and Mr.
and Mrs. Meller----
Mrs. FORD. Yes.