Mr. BALL. There is the map of the first floor. Does it show the steps
leading down to the basement?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. You see the one there where you have the arrow
that is one entrance to the basement and that is the entrance I used
the biggest part of the time, that is the one I go down.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Oswald there?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. During the morning you say you saw Oswald around filling
orders?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. Were you on the sixth floor any that morning?
Mr. FRAZIER. One time just a few seconds. I said to Mr. Shelley we had
some book returns. They had sent back and he told me to count the books
and make sure they were all there and put them in the space and so I
took the elevator and loaded them on with a two-wheeler and so I know
where they went, and I went to the shelf off the elevator and put them
on the shelf and turned around and went right on down.
Mr. BALL. Were they doing some work there that day?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; they were.
Representative FORD. What time was that?
Mr. FRAZIER. When I went to put up the stock?
Representative FORD. Yes. On the sixth floor.
Mr. FRAZIER. That was sometime between 8 and 10 o'clock. I say it was
the early part of the morning.
Mr. BALL. What kind of work did you notice they were doing up there?
Mr. FRAZIER. As well as I remember they were moving stock, I believe
putting up some stock, straightening up the stock.
Mr. BALL. Any work done on the floor?
Mr. FRAZIER. I don't remember if they were working on the floor or not.
They may have because upon the fifth floor I know we have done the
fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember the names of any workmen you saw on the sixth
floor that morning you were there?
Mr. FRAZIER. I believe Billy was up there, Billy Lovelady, but so far
as I can say I went and put books on the shelf and turned around and
walked back and glanced up when I was coming back, I didn't stay any
length of time because when we are pretty busy, some fill out orders
and some doing something else and if you have a lot of orders to fill
you haven't got a lot of time to sit around and be talking.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Oswald on the sixth floor any time that morning?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir. I didn't because like I say that was the only
time I went up there at all that day and I was just up there for a few
seconds.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to him any that morning?
Mr. FRAZIER. I don't believe I did much unless he asked me something
about a book like I told you, and I was always willing to help anybody
I can.
Mr. BALL. Now, you knew that the President was going to pass that
building sometime that morning, didn't you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I heard he would.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to some of the men around there about it?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever talk to Oswald about that?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. What time did you knock off for lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER. 12.
Mr. BALL. Did you eat your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; not right then I didn't. I say, you know, he was
supposed to come by during our lunch hour so you don't get very many
chances to see the President of the United States and being an old
Texas boy, and [he] never having been down to Texas very much I went
out there to see him and just like everybody else was, I was standing
on the steps there and watched for the parade to come by and so I did
and I stood there until he come by.
Mr. BALL. You went out there after you quit work?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right, for lunch.
Mr. BALL. About 12 o'clock?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. And you hadn't eaten your lunch up to that time?
Mr. FRAZIER. No.
Mr. BALL. Did you go out there with somebody?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. Who did you go out there with?
Mr. FRAZIER. I stayed around there pretty close to Mr. Shelley and this
boy Billy Lovelady and just standing there, people talking and just
talking about how pretty a day it turned out to be, because I told you
earlier it was an old cloudy and misty day and then it didn't look like
it was going to be a pretty day at all.
Mr. BALL. And it turned out to be a good day?
Mr. FRAZIER. Pretty sunshiny day.
Mr. BALL. Warm?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; it was pretty warm.
Mr. BALL. Then let's see, there was Billy Lovelady and you were there.
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Anybody else you can remember?
Mr. FRAZIER. There was a lady there, a heavy-set lady who worked
upstairs there whose name is Sarah something, I don't know her last
name.
Mr. BALL. Were you near the steps?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I was, I was standing about, I believe, one step
down from the top there.
Mr. BALL. One step down from the top of the steps?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; standing there by the rail.
Mr. BALL. By steps we are talking about the steps of the entrance to
the Building?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Shown in this picture?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Which is Commission's Exhibit No. 362. Can you come over here
and show us about where you were standing?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. Like I told you this was an entrance right here.
Mr. BALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. FRAZIER. We have a bar rail running about half way up here. This
was the first step and I was standing right around there.
Mr. BALL. Put a mark there. Your name is Frazier, put an "F" there for
Frazier.
Mr. FRAZIER. O.K.
Mr. BALL. In the picture that would show you about there, would it?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; you can see, just see, the top, about the top
rail there, I was standing right in there.
Mr. BALL. Right in there?
Mr. FRAZIER. To be frank with you, I say, shadow from the roof there
knocked the sun from out our eyes, you wouldn't have any glare in the
eyes standing there.
Mr. BALL. There was a roof over your head, was there?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Did you stand there for 30 minutes or--tell us how long you
stayed there?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I stood there until the parade come by.
Mr. BALL. Did you see the President go by?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear anything?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I say, just right after he went by he hadn't hardly
got by, I heard a sound and if you have ever been around motorcycles
you know how they backfire, and so I thought one of them motorcycles
backfired because right before his car came down, now there were
several of these motorcycle policemen, and they took off down toward
the underpass down there, and so I thought, you know, that one of them
motorcycles backfired, but it wasn't just a few seconds that, you know,
I heard two more of the same type of, you know, sounds, and by that
time people was running everywhere, and falling down and screaming,
and naturally then I knew something was wrong, and so I come to the
conclusion somebody else, somebody was shooting at somebody and I
figured it was him.
Mr. BALL. You figured it was who?
Mr. FRAZIER. I figured it was somebody shooting at President Kennedy
because people were running and hollering so I just stood still. I have
always been taught when something like that happened or anywhere as far
as that it is always best to stand still because if you run that makes
you look guilty sure enough.
Mr. BALL. Now, then, did you have any impression at that time as to the
direction from which the sound came?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, to be frank with you I thought it come from down
there, you know, where that underpass is. There is a series, quite a
few number, of them railroad tracks running together and from where
I was standing it sounded like it was coming from down the railroad
tracks there.
Mr. BALL. Were you able to see the President, could you still see the
President's car when you heard the first sound?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I couldn't. From there, you know, people were
standing out there on the curb, you see, and you know it drops, you
know the ground drops, off there as you go down toward that underpass
and I couldn't see any of it because people were standing up there in
my way, but however, when he did turn that corner there, there wasn't
anybody standing there in the street and you could see good there, but
after you got on past down there you couldn't see anything.
Mr. BALL. You didn't see the President's car at the time you heard the
sound?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. But you stood right there, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right. Stood right where I was.
Mr. BALL. And Mr. Shelley was still standing there?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. And also Billy Lovelady?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. The three of you didn't go any place?
Mr. FRAZIER. I believe Billy and them walked down toward that direction
but I didn't. I just stood where I was. I hadn't moved at all.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while
you were there?
Mr. FRAZIER. You mean somebody other that didn't work there?
Mr. BALL. A police officer.
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some
people who worked there; you know normally started to go back into the
Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we started
back into the Building and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there
were a lot of police officers and so forth all over the Building there.
Mr. BALL. Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. And before you went back into the Building no police officer
came up the steps and into the building?
Mr. FRAZIER. Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was
standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it.
Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything about what had happened, did you
hear anybody say anything about the President had been shot?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had
walked down a little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and
somebody come back and said somebody had shot President Kennedy.
Mr. BALL. Do you know who it was who told you that?
Mr. FRAZIER. Sir?
Mr. BALL. Do you know who the girl was who told you that?
Mr. FRAZIER. She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back
and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several
people.
Mr. BALL. Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. And police officers came in there?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I would say by the time, you know some of us
went back in, and it wasn't just a few minutes, I say there were
several.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay on the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, stayed on the first floor there for a few minutes
and I hadn't eaten my lunch so I had my lunch down there in the
basement and I went down there to get my lunch and eat it and I walked
back up on the first floor there.
Mr. BALL. When you came back into the Building, you came in the front
door, didn't you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Did you go down to the basement immediately or did you stand
around on the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I stood around for several minutes there, you
know, and then, you know, eventually the ones who hadn't eaten their
lunch, some of them had taken their lunch outside.
Mr. BALL. Did other people go downstairs with you?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; they didn't.
Mr. BALL. You went down alone, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you go at any time in the back end of the Building back
near the door to the loading dock?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I never did.
Mr. BALL. Perhaps I had better ask you to point out on the map here
where you were. Come over here, please.
Mr. FRAZIER. O.K.
Mr. BALL. You came in back into the Building?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Tell us where you went and what you did?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, you know like I said I come back through here
[indicating on Commission Exhibit No. 362, diagram of first floor].
Mr. BALL. By "coming back through here," you mean you came down the
hallway and into the entrance into the first floor warehouse?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right, and you come by Mr. Shelley's office, that is his
counter right here, after you get in, you get off here, that is his
office, anyway, right out, I come out around here, you know where
several of the people walked around here.
Mr. BALL. That is in the bin area?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; the bins don't start automatically right up in
here. I say, there is a little bit more or less, like more or less a
hall through here, but anyway, you know, I say, you have two or three
bins.
Mr. BALL. Through here you mean there is sort of a hall after you enter
into the warehouse?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Right.
Mr. FRAZIER. From it, after you come past this counter you have several
rows of bins coming this way, but, I say, right after you get past,
say, this last bin right here running that way, right out this general
area right here you have a telephone and everything out in here.
Mr. BALL. Well, you indicated that everything that would be beyond this
line, the bin lines, would be clear on the first floor.
Mr. FRAZIER. Right, beyond here.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever go into that area where it was clear before you
went downstairs?
From the time you came back into the room, did you go down into this
area which was clear before you went downstairs?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I didn't go in here. I was right over right close
to Mr. Shelley's office right around here and sit around and talked
with some guys around there.
Mr. BALL. You are indicating around Mr. Shelley's office?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; pretty close right there, like I say more or
less right out over in here we have a----
Mr. BALL. Put a mark there.