Mr. BALL. Oswald?
Mr. FRAZIER. I was sitting there eating my breakfast there, so sitting
there, I usually talk to my little nieces, you know, they have them
cartoons on for a while and we usually talk a little bit back and forth
while eating breakfast and I was just finishing my coffee there and
my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink
there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there
over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to
glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window
for me and she said, "Who is that?"
And I said, "That is Lee," and naturally he just walked around and so I
thought he just walked around there on the carport right there close to
the door and so I told her I had to go, so I went in there and brushed
my teeth right quick and come through there and I usually have my coat
laying somewhere on the chair and picked it up and put it on and by
that time my sister had my lunch, you know, in a sack and sitting over
there on the washer where I picked it up right there by the door and I
just walked on out and we got in the car.
Mr. BALL. Now, did your sister say anything as you were having
breakfast?
Mr. FRAZIER. No; she didn't say anything to me at all.
Mr. BALL. She didn't say anything to you either about Oswald or did she?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; say, she didn't say, you know, when I looked up
and saw him I knew who it was.
Mr. BALL. You saw him?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. What was he doing?
Mr. FRAZIER. He just looked through the kitchen window. To see from
there on the ground outside there. I say you don't have to be any
height at all, you don't have to be too tall to be able to look in the
kitchen window there.
I say, if you have the window open you can see in, if you have light on
in there.
Mr. BALL. When your mother mentioned, "Who is that," you looked up and
saw Lee Oswald in the kitchen window?
Mr. FRAZIER. I just saw him for a split second and when he saw I saw
him, I guess he heard me say, "Well, it is time to go," and he walked
down by the back door there.
Representative FORD. When he would go with you on Monday, on any
Monday, was this the same procedure for getting to, getting in contact
with you?
Mr. FRAZIER. You mean coming in there and looking through the window?
Representative FORD. Yes.
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; it wasn't. I say, that is the first time he had
ever done that. I say, most times I would usually call him, you know,
I was already out in the car fixing to go out the driveway there, and,
you know, around to pick him up if he hadn't come down but most times,
once in a while I picked him up at the house and another time he was
already coming down the sidewalk to the house when I was fixing to pick
him up and I usually picked him up around the corner there.
Representative FORD. Did this different method of him meeting you raise
any questions in your mind?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; it didn't. I just thought maybe, you know, he
just left a little bit earlier but when I looked up and saw that the
clock was, I knew I was the one who was running a little bit late
because, as I say, I was talking, sitting there eating breakfast and
talking to the little nieces, it was later than I thought it was.
Mr. BALL. When you went out the back door where was Oswald?
Mr. FRAZIER. He was standing just a few feet there outside the back
door there.
Mr. BALL. He wasn't in the car?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he wasn't.
Mr. BALL. Was he near the car?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he wasn't.
You see, always I keep my car parked outside the carport there, on the
other side.
Mr. BALL. He was just a few feet outside your back door when you came
out?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Did you walk together to the car?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; we did.
Mr. BALL. And you got in one side and he got in the other?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes. Right in front there.
Mr. BALL. Did you say usually you had to go by and pick him up?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I said I had a couple of times. Most of the time,
you know, he was usually walking down the sidewalk as I was driving
out of the driveway so, therefore, I didn't have to go up to the house
there to pick him up. I just usually picked him up around the corner
because he was usually on the sidewalk and I just stopped and picked
him up.
Mr. BALL. Were you later than usual that morning?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don't believe we were, because we got to work
on time. I say, when I looked at the clock, after I glanced he was
there a split second and I just turned around and looked at the clock
to see what time it was and it was right around 7:21 then and I went in
and brushed my teeth real quick and running through the house put my
coat on and we left.
Mr. BALL. You both got in the car about the same time?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. All right.
When you got in the car did you say anything to him or did he say
anything to you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit
of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a
package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I
said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was
going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that
Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I
didn't think any more about it when he told me that.
Mr. BALL. What did the package look like?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I will be frank with you, I would just, it is
right as you get out of the grocery store, just more or less out of a
package, you have seen some of these brown paper sacks you can obtain
from any, most of the stores, some varieties, but it was a package just
roughly about two feet long.
Mr. BALL. It was, what part of the back seat was it in?
Mr. FRAZIER. It was in his side over on his side in the far back.
Mr. BALL. How much of that back seat, how much space did it take up?
Mr. FRAZIER. I would say roughly around 2 feet of the seat.
Mr. BALL. From the side of the seat over to the center, is that the way
you would measure it?
Mr. FRAZIER. If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end
of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just
roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few
inches.
Mr. BALL. How wide was the package?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I would say the package was about that wide.
Mr. BALL. How wide would you say that would be?
Mr. FRAZIER. Oh, say, around 5 inches, something like that. 5, 6 inches
or there. I don't----
Mr. BALL. The paper, was the color of the paper, that you would get in
a grocery store, is that it, a bag in a grocery store?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right. You have seen, not a real light color but you know
normally, the normal color about the same color, you have seen these
kinds of heavy duty bags you know like you obtain from the grocery
store, something like that, about the same color of that, paper sack
you get there.
Mr. BALL. Was there anything more said about the paper sack on the way
into town?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; there wasn't.
Mr. BALL. What route did you take into town that day?
Mr. FRAZIER. Went down--you know, I told you I had two routes; that day
I went down, you know, Fifth Street runs into Sixth after you cross
the Storey Road there, so I just went on down Sixth until I come to
O'Connor, and then took a left on O'Connor and it takes you right on
out to Stemmons and from there I went right on into Stemmons and come
up Commerce, and you go up Commerce, there until you hit Record Street,
that is one block over from Houston and then I went down until I hit
McKinney and then it goes right down to the warehouse and then take a
left and you go right around to the parking lot.
Mr. BALL. You didn't stop any place on your way in?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Park in the parking lot?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Where did you park in the parking lot this time?
Mr. FRAZIER. I parked in the same place the picture I showed you there.
Mr. BALL. As shown in the picture. That is Exhibit No. 361.
Anything else said about curtain rods?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; there wasn't.
Mr. BALL. Anything else said about the package?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; there wasn't.
Mr. BALL. Who got out of the car first?
Mr. FRAZIER. He did.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember any conversation on the way in about anything?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I asked him did he have fun playing with them
babies and he chuckled and said he did. And so that morning I said just
a few minutes after we started you know it was a cloudy day and it
started misting and rain and by the time we got out on the Freeway I
said, you know, how those trucks throw that grime on the windshield and
finally it was getting pretty thick on there with spots of rain, and
I turned on the windshield wiper and you know how grime spatters your
windshield and I said, "I wish it would rain or just quit altogether, I
wish it would do something to clear off the windshield," and the drops
started getting larger so eventually it cleaned off the windshield and
by the time I got down to Dallas there I just turned off the windshield.
Just a few clouds, and rained a little bit to get out of it. But other
than that just saying the weather was messy, that is about all.
Mr. BALL. Was it foggy?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; not in too particular. I say in other words, just
old cloudy, dull looking day and like I say fine mist of rain and after
we got a little bit further we got into larger drops.
Mr. BALL. Was there anything said about the President coming to Dallas
that day?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; it wasn't.
Mr. BALL. Did he say anything about that the day before?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever have any conversation with him with reference to
the President's visit to Texas?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. When you got to the parking lot who got out of the car first?
Mr. FRAZIER. He did.
Mr. BALL. You didn't get out immediately then?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I was sitting there, say, looked at my watch and
somewhere around 7 or 8 minutes until and I saw we had a few minutes
and I sat there, and as I say you can see the Freeway, Stemmons
Freeway, from the warehouse and also the trains coming back and forth
and I was sitting there.
What I was doing--glanced up and watching cars for a minute but I was
letting my engine run and getting to charge up my battery, because when
you stop and start you have to charge up your battery.
Mr. BALL. Did you have your lunch beside you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. Did you notice whether or not Lee had a package that looked
like a lunch package that morning?
Mr. FRAZIER. You know like I told you earlier. I say, he didn't take
his lunch because I remember right when I got in the car I asked him
where was his lunch and he said he was going to buy his lunch that day.
Mr. BALL. He told you that that day, did he?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right. That is right. So, I assumed he was going to buy
it, you know, from that catering service man like a lot of the boys do.
They don't bring their lunch but they go out and buy their lunch there.
Mr. BALL. What did he do about the package in the back seat when he got
out of the car?
Mr. FRAZIER. Like I say, I was watching the gages and watched the car
for a few minutes before I cut it off.
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRAZIER. He got out of the car and he was wearing the jacket that
has the big sleeves in them and he put the package that he had, you
know, that he told me was curtain rods up under his arm, you know, and
so he walked down behind the car and standing over there at the end of
the cyclone fence waiting for me to get out of the car, and so quick as
I cut the engine off and started out of the car, shut the door just as
I was starting out just like getting out of the car, he started walking
off and so I followed him in.
So, eventually there he kept getting a little further ahead of me and
I noticed we had plenty of time to get there because it is not too far
from the Depository and usually I walk around and watch them switching
the trains because you have to watch where you are going if you have to
cross the tracks.
One day you go across one track and maybe there would be some cars
sitting there and there would be another diesel coming there, so you
have to watch when you cross the tracks, I just walked along and I just
like to watch them switch the cars, so eventually he kept getting a
little further ahead of me and by that time we got down there pretty
close to the Depository Building there, I say, he would be as much as,
I would say, roughly 50 feet in front of me but I didn't try to catch
up with him because I knew I had plenty of time so I just took my time
walking up there.
Mr. BALL. Did you usually walk up there together.
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; we did.
Mr. BALL. Is this the first time that he had ever walked ahead of you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. BALL. You say he had the package under his arm when you saw him?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You mean one end of it under the armpit?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; he had it up just like you stick it right under
your arm like that.