Mr. BALL. I see.
Did he pay for any part of the trip, buy your gasoline?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn't. I never did ask him. Because like I
said I drove over there anyway and it doesn't take any more to drive
one guy than it does to drive a carload.
Mr. BALL. Did he offer to pay any time?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he never did.
Mr. BALL. At any time coming back after a weekend did you ever stop at
a restaurant for breakfast?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; we never did.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever stop on the way home on Friday night and buy
anything?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; stopped one time and bought some gas, I remember.
Mr. BALL. Did he pay for it?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn't.
Mr. BALL. Did he offer to?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn't.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him have any money in his possession, bills,
change?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I never did see him out playing around with any
money.
Mr. BALL. On the way back and forth did you talk very much to each
other?
Mr. FRAZIER. N,. sir; not very much. He is, probably in your line of
business you have probably seen a lot of guys who talk a lot and some
don't and he was one of these types that just didn't talk. And I have
seen, you know, I am not very old but I have seen a lot of guys in my
time, just going to school, different boys and girls, some talk a lot
and some don't, so I didn't think anything strange about that.
About the only time you could get anything out of the talking was about
babies, you know, he had one and he was expecting another, that was
one way he had him get that job because his wife was pregnant and I
would always get something out of it when I asked him about the babies
because it seemed he was very fond of children because when I asked
him he chuckled and told me about what he was doing about the babies
over the weekend and sometimes we would talk about the weather, and
sometimes he would go to work and it would be cloudy in the morning and
it would come out that afternoon after work, sometimes during the day
and it would turn to be just one of the prettiest days you would want
anywhere, and he would say some comment about that, but not very much.
He would say a few words and then he would cut off.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he had been to Russia, say anything about
that?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I say, we were talking about one time talking about
the service, and so I asked him had he ever been overseas and he said
he had, and I asked him had he ever been to Germany and he said he had
been through there.
So, most times when boys are in the service in the United States they
either go to Japan or, I say, they either go over there or you know, go
to some of these, say, like Germany or France somewhere like that.
And so other than that he told me that he had been through there.
Mr. BALL. Did he say he had been to Russia?
Mr. FRAZIER. He said, you know, like I say, he said he had been over
there and he said he had been there so I thought when he told me, yes;
he had, so I thought maybe, you know, by being, I know he told me had
been in service and I thought maybe that is how he got in.
Mr. BALL. In other words, your answer is yes; he did tell you he had
been in Russia?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Did he go into detail and tell you how he got there and what
he did there?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, he didn't. I, to be frank with you I, was more
interested about France and Germany and I asked him about them towns
and he told me he liked France, I mean he said not that he didn't like
France, he said people in France was more the kind to con the United
States boys out of their money and he was in Germany there 2 or 3 days
and he said he liked Germany better than France because that is one
reason. Because he said if you didn't really know how to count that
French money them French guys would really take you.
Mr. BALL. Did he say anything about being in the Marines?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; he told me he was a Marine.
Mr. BALL. That he had been to Japan?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn't say he had been to Japan.
Mr. BALL. Ever talk about politics?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn't.
Mr. BALL. Ever mention any subjects like, political parties, the
Democrats, Republicans?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn't.
Mr. BALL. Ever mention anything about Communists, Marxists or any words
like that did he use?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you where he met his wife?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn't.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever talk much about his wife?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he didn't. I say, like I said, he was just a guy
who didn't talk very much at all.
Mr. BALL. At the Texas School Book Depository, you have lunch,
45-minute lunch hour, don't you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Did you pack your lunch from home?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir, I always took lunch.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember whether or not when Oswald came back with you
on any Monday morning or any weekend did he pack his lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. BALL. He did?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. When he rode with me, I say he always brought
lunch except that one day on November 22 he didn't bring his lunch that
day.
Mr. BALL. But every other day he brought a lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right, when he rode with me.
Mr. BALL. Would he bring it in a paper sack or what kind of a container?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; like a little paper sack you get out of a
grocery store, you have seen these little old sacks that you could buy,
sandwich bag, sack.
Mr. BALL. Did you carry your lunch in a paper sack?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. There is a lunch room in the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Is that on the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; on the second floor.
Mr. BALL. There is some kind of a recreation room on the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER. There is a little domino room there where some of the guys
go in and play dominoes.
Mr. BALL. But the lunch room is on the second floor?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Do they sell any food there?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; they don't. About all they sell in the lunch room
is different types of soft drinks and then near the window, the men who
work in the offices there they have coffee there, you can drink coffee
up there, I never did. Then you have an assortment of cookies and
candies and peanuts and so forth on the machine there. That is about
all they have.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember whether or not Oswald packed his lunch,
brought his lunch on other days, the days that he didn't ride with you?
Mr. FRAZIER. To be frank with you, I don't know whether he brought his
lunch because I will tell you one way, some guys bring their lunch
there and some guys buy it there because we have a caterer service, you
see, comes around about 10 o'clock the man comes around and several
of the boys they go out there and buy their lunch from the catering
service.
Mr. BALL. Then later on at 11:45?
Mr. FRAZIER. 12 o'clock is when we always eat lunch.
Mr. BALL. 12 to 12:45?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. When you get off your job, did you usually go to the lunch
room on the second floor to eat your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; most of the time I don't. Most of the time you
see several of us guys sitting down at our own table and we just sit
there. I say we usually go up there to get something to drink and I say
I have ate up there several times but most of the times I eat with the
guys I work with.
Usually we just sit down and eat, and we lay down on the big tables
there and sometimes talk or go to sleep.
Mr. BALL. That is on the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Did you notice where Oswald had his lunch usually?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I didn't.
Now, I say we have a refrigerator there, some of the boys put their
lunches in there.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever eat lunch with Oswald?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I never have.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him eating lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I never have seen him eat lunch. I have seen him
go to the Doctor Pepper machine by the refrigerator and get a Doctor
Pepper but I never have seen him, you might say, sit right down and eat
his lunch.
Mr. BALL. In driving back and forth with Oswald did you ever hear
him--did he ever talk about guns?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; he never did.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever tell you he owned a gun?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did Oswald ever say anything to you about buying an
automobile in any of these trips?
Mr. FRAZIER. One time we were talking about it, he said he thought he
would just buy him an old car, you know, like mine. I say most models
like that you can get them pretty cheap and as far as going back and
forth for work that is about all they are good for.
I said, "You don't need a new car to be used for going back and forth.
You don't need it unless you drive a good-sized distance."
But that is what he said in the long run he planned to buy one but so
far as I know he never did.
Mr. BALL. Did he say that once or more than once?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; just one time.
Mr. BALL. When he said he would get an old car?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever tell you he had gone to an old car dealer?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever tell you he had tried out a car?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir. So far as I--like I say, that one time, that
is as far as I can ever recall that we even talked much about
anything--about cars--except a while ago he asked me--we were talking
about the clutch and automatic transmission and so forth.
Mr. BALL. There is a bus service between Dallas and Irving?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; there is.
Mr. BALL. Can you get the bus anywhere near the Texas School Book
Depository?
Mr. FRAZIER. To be frank with you I will say I have never ridden the
bus from Irving over there, but I assume you can get off there just
like any other bus at any street corner you want to.
Mr. BALL. Do you know what the fare is?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BALL. Is there a toll charge to call from Dallas to Irving?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; it is not.
Mr. BALL. For 10 cents you can call there, can you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I say just for your regular telephone bill, you just
pick it up and call.
Mr. BALL. I see.
Now, there was the one date that Oswald came to you and asked you to
drive him back to Irving, it was not a Friday, was it?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; it wasn't.
Mr. BALL. It was on a Thursday.
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. Was that the 21st of November?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Well, tell us about that.
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I say, we were standing like I said at the
four-headed table about half as large as this, not, quite half as
large, but anyway I was standing there getting the orders in and he
said, "Could I ride home with you this afternoon?"
And I said, "Sure. You know, like I told you, you can go home with me
any time you want to, like I say anytime you want to go see your wife
that is all right with me."
So automatically I knew it wasn't Friday, I come to think it wasn't
Friday and I said, "Why are you going home today?"
And he says, "I am going home to get some curtain rods." He said, "You
know, put in an apartment."
He wanted to hang up some curtains and I said, "Very well." And I never
thought more about it and I had some invoices in my hands for some
orders and I walked on off and started filling the orders.
Mr. BALL. This was on what floor?
Mr. FRAZIER. This was on the first floor.
Mr. BALL. About what time in the morning?
Mr. FRAZIER. I would say sometime between eight and ten, because I go
to work at eight and I would break at ten.
Mr. BALL. Was it at the break time or before?
Mr. FRAZIER. It was before the break.
Mr. BALL. It was before noon then?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him at the noon hour?
Mr. FRAZIER. That day?
Mr. BALL. That day.
Mr. FRAZIER. I don't recall, to be frank with you. You know, I will
just be frank with you, I say just like after a guy works there for
a while and he comes by and he walks by you, you don't pay so much
attention but say like somebody else comes in there strange, you
automatically just look at them.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to him again until quitting time?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, to be frank with you, like I said, the only
time--you know, like I say, he didn't talk very much and about the
only time--other than like I told you about talking about them babies
and about the weather sometimes he would ask me some questions about a
book because down there, I say, if you have ever been acquainted with
books a lot of times maybe just a little bit of difference in a title
or something like that would make the difference in what type of book
they want and sometimes maybe they will forget to put that on there and
you look at the price.
If you can tell the price, some editions we have a paperback and some
we have hard bound and the price can automatically tell you which one
they want, and sometimes he would ask me something like that which
book do they want and I would tell him and that was about the only
conversation we had.
Mr. BALL. You didn't talk any more with him that day concerning the
ride home?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. But you did go home with him?
Mr. FRAZIER. That is he rode home with me.
Mr. BALL. What time did you get off from work?
Mr. FRAZIER. 4:40.
Mr. BALL. What time did you get to Irving?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, usually get there, if you make good time, get there
maybe around 5:20 or 5:25. But if you catch the traffic and catch the
train crossing the tracks, it is usually about 5:30 or 5:35, it is just
according to how bad the traffic is.
If you get ahead of it before it starts coming out, you can make pretty
good headway.
Mr. BALL. Did you make any stop in the car before you got home?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don't believe we did.
Mr. BALL. Did the two of you walk together down to the parking lot?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; we did.
Mr. BALL. And you dropped him off at the place where his wife was
staying, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I believe I did. I, to be frank with you I, say
sometimes he rode home with me, sometimes--a little store not too far
from the house, there and if I was going to the store I would just
drop him off by the house, but if I wasn't going to the store he would
usually go on to the corner near the house and walk the rest of the way
to the house up to where his wife was staying just about a half a block
from my house up to where he was, his wife was staying, so he would
walk there just a little bit.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember if you talked to him any on the walk down two
or three blocks down to the parking lot, anything said that you can
remember?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don't believe so.
Mr. BALL. When you got in the car and went home do you remember if you
said anything, if you said anything to him, or if he said anything to
you?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don't believe he did. Like I said, he didn't
talk very much. About the only time we would talk was about the weather
and babies, something like that.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember this day whether or not you let him walk to
the house where his wife was staying?
Mr. FRAZIER. To be frank with you, I can't remember positively whether
I let him off at the house or whether he got out there where I lived,
just to be frank with you.
Mr. BALL. You know where the house is, don't you?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where Mrs. Paine lives?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. How far is that from your house?
Mr. FRAZIER. Like I say, it is just about half a block up the street.
Mr. BALL. It is on the same street, is it?
Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I say, we lived at the corner of Westbrook and Fifth
Street, and Fifth Street runs on up, you know, and I say they live on
Fifth Street.
Mr. BALL. What direction does Fifth run, east, west, north or south?
Mr. FRAZIER. It runs east and west.
Mr. BALL. East and west. And you live on the corner of Westbrook and
Fifth?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. And Paine's house is east or west of your house?
Mr. FRAZIER. It is west.
Mr. BALL. It is west of of your house?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. About a half block?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. On the same street. Fifth Street?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. What side of the street do you live on, the north side or
south side of Fifth Street?
Mr. FRAZIER. North side.
Mr. BALL. What side of the street do the Paine's live on, the north or
south side of Fifth Street?
Mr. FRAZIER. North.
Mr. BALL. You both live on the north side?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. So to walk from Paine's house to your house you walk east
along the north side of Fifth Street across Westbrook, is that right?
Mr. FRAZIER. Now, from the corner of Westbrook and Fifth you walk west
on the same side of the street on the north side.
Mr. BALL. On the north side?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. From your house to Paine's?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right, you walk west.
Mr. BALL. And from Paine's house to yours. OK.