Mr. WORRELL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. As you have just--have you had time to read it over just
now?
Mr. WORRELL. Oh, yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Is that statement accurate based on your current
recollection of the event?
Mr. WORRELL. It is accurate down to, well, I changed my height to 5-8
from 5-7.
Mr. SPECTER. Aside from that minor variation, is it accurate in its
entirety; that is, is it all accurate?
Mr. WORRELL. Well, I left out, when I was making my affidavit, I left
out, while I was running I heard a gun fire two more times. Well, as I
told you, I was turning the corner when I heard it and saw it fire the
third time, and then the fourth.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, are there any other additions or modifications
that you would like to make from the contents of your statement in
accordance with your recollection at this moment?
Mr. WORRELL. I can't verify that--the time they got here because I am
not too sure of that.
Mr. SPECTER. You are not sure of that now?
Mr. WORRELL. No.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Are there any other modifications that you would want to make in the
contents of the statement?
Mr. WORRELL. Leave out firecracker. It sounded, it was too loud for a
firecracker.
Mr. SPECTER. Your current recollection is that it was too loud for a
firecracker?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Is there any other respect in which your current
recollection differs from this affidavit?
Mr. WORRELL. Instead of looking I ran, I looked up.
Mr. SPECTER. Is there any other respect in which your current
recollection differs from the affidavit?
Mr. WORRELL. Well, I left out on the barrel of the rifle, I left out
part of the stock. I didn't recollect that at that time.
Mr. SPECTER. Is there any other aspect in which your current
recollection differs from the facts set forth in this affidavit?
Mr. WORRELL. Well, everything else is O.K.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the length of time
between the first shot and the last shot which you heard?
Mr. WORRELL. The best estimate 5, 6 seconds.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you talked to, been interviewed by or given a
statement to any Federal agent?
Mr. WORRELL. The FBI down at Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times have you seen the FBI agents?
Mr. WORRELL. Once.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recollect the names of the agents you saw?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recollect when it was that you saw those agents?
Mr. WORRELL. It was on that Saturday, the 23d.
Mr. SPECTER. And where were you when you saw them?
Mr. WORRELL. In the Dallas Police Station.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did that interview last?
Mr. WORRELL. Thirty minutes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you sign a statement for them?
Mr. WORRELL. I just signed it for the Dallas police. They didn't have
me sign anything.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you been interviewed by any other Federal agent or
representative?
Mr. WORRELL. Well, Mr. Sorrels interviewed me when he called me and
asked me some questions when he called me up Wednesday night, I guess
it was.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that in relationship to your coming here to this
Commission hearing?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. What sort of questions did Mr. Sorrels ask you?
Mr. WORRELL. What I saw. And I told him.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that just on the telephone?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did that conversation last?
Mr. WORRELL. Not very long. He talked to my mother first. He talked to
her for 15 minutes, something like this.
Mr. SPECTER. Was he talking to her about what you saw or about travel
arrangements to get you here?
Mr. WORRELL. I don't know. I was watching television, I didn't know
even who she was talking to.
Mr. SPECTER. All right. Aside from that conversation with Mr. Sorrels
and the interview you have had with the FBI, have you ever talked with
any agent or representative of the Federal Government.
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you talked to any police official of Dallas or the
State of Texas after you gave this affidavit?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Based on seeing only the back of this man, were you ever
able to make any identification of him?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chairman, I move for the admission into evidence of
the other exhibit which we have used with Mr. Worrell being Commission
Exhibit No. 362.
Senator COOPER. The exhibit will be admitted to evidence.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 362 for
identification and received in evidence.)
Mr. SPECTER. That concludes our questions.
Senator COOPER. You stated that, I believe, you looked up after you had
heard the first report?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. You looked up and saw the barrel of a rifle, and then
the rifle fired. What made you know that it fired?
Mr. WORRELL. Pardon?
Senator COOPER. How did you know it was fired when you were looking at
it?
Mr. WORRELL. Well, I saw what you might call a little flame and smoke.
Senator COOPER. You saw something that came out of the barrel?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Were you looking at it when you heard the third report?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes, sir, looking at it, turning around and started to run.
Senator COOPER. Did you see anything then?
Mr. WORRELL. Same thing, a little flash of fire and then smoke. I
didn't see it on the fourth one.
Senator COOPER. Did you only look at the car in which the President was
riding one time when you said you saw him slump?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Did you look back at the President's car then?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir. I didn't do that because I mean I didn't know if
there was one or more guns, because I wondered why if it was in such
rapid succession being a bolt action, I found out later, and I didn't
know what was coming off, so I was running to the back of the building
because I figured that would be the safest place.
Senator COOPER. Did you see anyone in the windows, in the Texas
Depository Building?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir.
Senator COOPER. Did you notice where this man you have described later
as running away from the building, did you see him come out of the
building?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Where?
Mr. WORRELL. At the back entrance. Approximately where I put the mark
"Z."
Senator COOPER. Was he running all the time you saw him?
Mr. WORRELL. Yes, sir, he sure was.
Senator COOPER. That is all.
Mr. WRIGHT. Prior to hearing the first shot, had you looked up at the
School Book Depository Building?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir; I sure didn't.
Mr. WRIGHT. That is all.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to observe the direction of the barrel which
you have described?
Mr. WORRELL. Pointing right down at the motorcade.
Mr. SPECTER. Any special part of the motorcade?
Mr. WORRELL. I mean, I couldn't really say that because it was too high
up and he could have been pointing at anyone of the cars. I mean I
couldn't tell from where I was standing.
Mr. SPECTER. Was it on the part of the motorcade which had turned down
Elm Street or on the part of the motorcade that was still on Houston or
what?
Mr. WORRELL. It was the part that was turned down Elm Street.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Worrell, we have a report of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation which contains a purported interview with you, designated
as report of Robert P. Gemberling dated November 30, 1963, which has
this statement:
"He"--referring to you--"stated that last night when he saw photographs
of Lee Harvey Oswald on television he felt this was the person he had
seen running away from the building. He stated this person did not look
back but he was certain this was a white person since he had a profile
view."
My question, first of all, to you: Did you have a profile view of the
man who ran away from the building that you described?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. The second question is, did you tell the FBI that you had
a profile view?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir, I sure didn't.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you tell the FBI agent who interviewed you, that you
felt that this person was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WORRELL. I don't know if I did or not.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anyone else leave the building, that is the
Texas School Book Depository Building, except the man you have already
described to us?
Mr. WORRELL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Senator COOPER. Are there any further questions? I believe we will
stand in recess until 2 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 1:10 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)