Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Excuse me. You said put an "A" here?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, please. Will you describe just what occurred as the
motorcade proceeded past the intersection of Houston and Elm Streets?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, the crowd had begun to diminish, looking ahead
and to the right the crowd became spotty. I mean it wasn't continuous
at all, like it had been. As we were beginning to go down this incline,
all of a sudden there was an explosive noise. I quickly observed
unnatural movement of crowds, like ducking or scattering, and quick
movements in the Presidential followup car. So I turned around and hit
the Vice President on the shoulder and hollered, get down, and then
looked around again and saw more of this movement, and so I proceeded
to go to the back seat and get on top of him.
I then heard two more shots. But I would like to say this. I would not
be positive that I was back on that back seat before the second shot.
But the Vice President himself said I was. But--then in hearing these
two more shots, I again had seen more movement, and I think someone
else hit a siren--I heard the noise of a siren.
I told the driver to close it up, and stick close to that car in front.
And right away we started a hasty evacuation speed, and left this
immediate area, and we were following close behind. And I had a radio
which was on a Baker frequency, where I could communicate back with the
agents in my followup car. And they had a Charlie frequency, which was
on the same network of the Presidential motorcade. And I called back
and said I am switching to Baker frequency--I said, "I am switching to
Charlie." And as I switched, I heard some transmission over the Charlie
sets saying for me to keep my man covered, and I heard Kivett reply to
Emory Roberts that he was covered, and I saw agents in the followup
car, the Presidential followup car signaling us to stay close. I asked
the driver what his opinion was as to--I don't know for exact sure
just where we were going, but I knew our best protection was to stay
with that Presidential followup crew. And I asked the driver if he had
passed the Trade Mart. He said he passed it and we were going on to the
hospital. And I heard indications over the radio that we were going to
the hospital. We had a very fast ride there.
I told the driver to go as fast as he could without having a wreck.
There was some conversation between the Vice President and myself
while we were going to the hospital. I told him that I didn't know
how serious it was up in the front car, but when we arrived at the
hospital, I would like to get out of the car and go into the building
and not stop, and for him to stay close to myself and the other agents.
He agreed to.
When we arrived at the hospital, we immediately went right in. As we
stopped at the hospital, two of my agents from the Vice Presidential
car, followup car, were coming up to meet us, and two from the
Presidential followup were coming to meet us, and, with this group, we
proceeded into the hospital and then went into a room. I posted one
man at the door and said, not to let anyone in unless he knew him, was
certain of his identity.
I told Jerry Kivett and Warren Taylor to pull all the shades and
blinds, which they did. And they also busied themselves with evacuating
a couple of people out of there. There was a nurse and a patient in
there.
Mr. SPECTER. Before you go on, Mr. Youngblood, let me drop back and
pick up a few of the details theretofore.
What would your best estimate be of the speed of the Vice President's
car at the time you heard that first explosive noise?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Oh, approximately 12 miles an hour.
Mr. SPECTER. And had you maintained the distance which you have
described heretofore behind the President's followup car?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, generally. Sometimes as we went around corners,
we tried to close up the gap a little bit. But as soon as we got on a
straight stretch, we would drop back two or three car lengths.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, at this particular time, what is your best
recollection of the distance between the Presidential followup car and
the Vice President's car?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We are on Elm Street now.
Mr. SPECTER. At the time the first shot occurred.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We were two or three car lengths behind.
Mr. SPECTER. And how far behind the President's car was the
Presidential followup car at the time of the first shot?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would think somewhat less than a car length.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the total timespan between
the first and third shots which you have already described?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. From the beginning to the last?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would think 5 seconds.
Mr. SPECTER. And you have described the first shot as being an
explosive noise. How would you describe each of the second and third
shots?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, there wasn't too much difference in the noise
of the first shot and the last two. I am not really sure that there
was a difference. But in my mind, I think I identified the last two
positively as shots, whereas the first one I thought was just an
explosive noise, and I didn't know whether it was a firecracker or a
shot. It seems, as I try to think over it, there was more of a crack
sound to the last two shots. That may have been distance, I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, as to time interval--was there longer or less time or
the same between the first and second shots and the second and third
shots?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. There seemed to be a longer span of time between the
first and the second shot than there was between the second and third
shot.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you have any reaction or impression as to the
source or point of origin of the first shot?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I didn't know where the source or the point of origin
was, of course, but the sounds all came to my right and rear.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, how about as to the latter two shots, would the same
apply, or would there be a different situation there?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No; all of them seemed to sound that they were from the
right.
Representative FORD. Did they sound on the surface or in the air or
couldn't you discern?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I couldn't say for certain. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you then or have you ever had any contrary
impression that the shots might have come from in front as opposed to
the rear of the automobile?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you say that you hit the Vice President's shoulder,
and at that time you were indicating your left hand, I believe.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Which hand did you use in hitting the Vice President's
shoulder?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. My left, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And which shoulder of the Vice President did you hit?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. His right, because I turned this way. I turned to my
left, with the hand out, and then came into his right shoulder.
Mr. SPECTER. And when you moved from the front to the rear seat, would
you describe in as much detail as you can your relative position with
respect to the position of President Johnson's body?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, the Vice President says that I vaulted over. It
was more of a stepping over. And then I sat on top of him, he being
crouched down somewhat.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating towards the left?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. He moved towards the center, or towards his left, yes,
sir, and down. And then I sat on this portion of his arm here.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the right upper portion of the arm from elbow
to the shoulder?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; generally.
Mr. SPECTER. And what were the positions of the other occupants of the
back seat at the time you sat on the Vice President?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Mrs. Johnson more or less moved into a forward--just
moved forward. And Senator Yarborough also moved forward, and possibly
he moved over a little to the right. I am not sure. But we were all
below the window level of the car. And those two generally were
forward. But the Vice President was forward and a little to his left.
Mr. SPECTER. In what direction did you look when you were first sitting
on the Vice President?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. In what direction did I look?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Almost all directions.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have a reaction with respect to looking in the
direction from which you thought the danger was emanating?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I think I first looked to the right--but to the right,
forward, up, as much as I could scan, and also the people in the
Presidential followup car. Because I recall seeing at the time one of
our agents, Hickey, who was in the Presidential followup car, in almost
a standing position with an AR-15 looking back and up.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to fix the precise time of the assassination?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would say 12:30. I was to keep the times. The Vice
President was asking me if we were running on time, and so forth. And
so he asked me how much further, and I would call back to our followup
car and ask them how many more miles and so forth.
So, for this reason, I was at that time keeping up with the time very
closely. And when we turned the corner, I noticed an illuminated clock
sign on this building, which I now know is the School Book Depository
Building. And that clock indicated 12:30. And the reason it is
significant is because this was the time we were supposed to arrive at
the Trade Mart.
Representative FORD. As you looked at the school depository building,
and noticed this clock, where is the clock? Can you identify it?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. This, right here.
Representative FORD. It is on top of the roof?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; right up here.
Representative FORD. And this is after you turned from Main Street on
to Houston Street?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We were on Houston Street--just as soon as we got on
Houston Street. And I looked up and I saw it there.
Representative FORD. Did you notice anything else on the building as
you scanned it from the top down, or from the bottom up?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I noticed open windows, and some people, I think. But I
didn't notice this particular window.
Representative FORD. You saw nothing unusual in any of the open windows
that you noticed?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, sir, all through the day here we had been passing
buildings with windows and people. And that I saw. But I saw nothing
unusual.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Youngblood, what is your best estimate as to the time
it took to get to Parkland Hospital after the shooting occurred?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I believe it was between 5 and 8 minutes, something of
that nature.
(At this point, Representative Ford withdrew from the hearing room.)
Mr. SPECTER. And at what speed did your automobile proceed, based on
your best estimate, en route from the shooting to Parkland Hospital?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I believe we were going around 60 or 70 miles an hour
at times.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you observe President Kennedy or Governor
Connally being removed from the President's automobile?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No, sir; because I had--as I mentioned before--I had
told the Vice President, or suggested to the Vice President that we did
not want to linger, and get into the building as quickly as we could,
and we would find out the condition of the other party after we got
into a safe place.
Mr. SPECTER. Had they already been taken in by the time you arrived at
the scene?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No, sir; I don't hardly see how they could have been,
because we arrived almost simultaneously with them. It was just a
matter of opening the door and getting out of the car and hastily
walking right on past. I think they were in the act of removing these
people, but I don't think they would have had time to have removed them.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you enter the emergency entrance as well?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, I interrupted you before when you were describing the
security arrangements which you were making on the room to which you
took the Vice President. Would you continue and describe for us what
occurred thereafter?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. At what point?
Mr. SPECTER. I interrupted you. You were in the room, you had pulled
the shades down, and were making security arrangements for the Vice
President.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, we were in a corner of this room, and there was
the Vice President, Mrs. Johnson, and myself at first, with agents
Kivett and Warren Taylor also in the big room, but not right over in
the corner at the beginning. And shortly thereafter Emory Roberts came
in. He was one of the White House detail agents. He told us that the
situation--situation with President Kennedy looked very bad. The Vice
President asked me what I thought--what we should do. And I said I
think we should evacuate the hospital as soon as we can, and get on
the plane, and return to Washington. And Emory Roberts concurred. And
the Vice President agreed. But he wanted to get a better report on the
condition and so forth.
Then we were joined by many others. Congressman Homer Thornberry came
in, and Congressman Brooks, and Cliff Carter, and the Vice President
had some conversations with these gentlemen. And at one time Cliff
went out and got coffee. And then Mr. Ken O'Donnell and Roy Kellerman
came down on one occasion, and Ken O'Donnell said for us to return to
Washington, and to go ahead and take the President's plane.
The Vice President was worried about Mrs. Kennedy. So Mrs. Johnson
thought that she would go see Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Connally. She did.
Agents Kivett and Taylor went with her. Then later, after she came
back, Ken O'Donnell and Roy Kellerman came down again and told us that
the President had died.
Mr. SPECTER. About what time was that, sir?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I don't know. I had told Lem Johns to try to keep up
with all the times. I think it is a matter of record. I believe you
have it in other documents.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, are you referring to a document which I will mark as
Commission Exhibit 355?
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 355 for
identification.)
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. This is our shift report, and this is the times that
Lem Johns was keeping that day. He shows 1 p.m., President Kennedy died
at Parkland Hospital.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that daily shift report prepared under your
supervision, Mr. Youngblood?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you review it and approve it when it was completed,
after the end of the workday on November 22?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, not exactly at the end of the workday, sir. These
agents would keep notes. And in this particular case you can see that
this one, it says, "Date completed, December 2" down at the bottom.
That is when he got around to typing it.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, does this document bear your initial in any place?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; up at the top. The "RYW" is my initials.
Mr. SPECTER. And does that signify your approval shortly after
completion of the document?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right. Would you go ahead and tell us what your
activities were from the time you had learned that the President had
died?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, when Mr. O'Donnell and Roy Kellerman told us that
he had died, the Vice President said, "Well, how about Mrs. Kennedy?"
O'Donnell told the Vice President that Mrs. Kennedy would not leave the
hospital without the President's body. And O'Donnell suggested we go
to the plane and that they just come on the other plane. And I might
add that, as a word of explanation, there were two jet planes, one Air
Force 1, in which the President flew, and the other Air Force 2, in
which the Vice President and his party flew on. And O'Donnell told us
to go ahead and take Air Force 1. I believe this is mainly because Air
Force 1 has better communications equipment and so forth than the other
planes.
President Johnson said that he didn't want to go off and leave Mrs.
Kennedy in such a state. And so he agreed that we would go on to the
airplane and board the plane and wait until Mrs. Kennedy and the body
would come out. Shall I go on?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes. Proceed. Did you then depart from Parkland Hospital?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; previous to all of this, I had Johns, my
agent, line up some unmarked police cars so that they would be ready
when we did decide to evacuate the hospital.
So we left the room and proceeded out to these cars. The car that
we went in was driven by Chief Curry, the Dallas Police Chief, and
Congressman Thornberry was in the front seat, and the Vice President
and I were in the back seat. And I had told the Vice President before
we left the room that I would prefer that he stay below window level,
and stay close with me as we went out, and that I would also prefer
Mrs. Johnson to go in another car, but she would be accompanied by
agents. And Mrs. Johnson did get in a second car. She was accompanied
by Warren Taylor and Jerry Kivett and Congressman Brooks, and also Glen
Bennett, another agent from the White House.
And as we started to leave the hospital area, that is drive away,
just as we started away, Congressman Thomas saw us leaving--I imagine
he saw Congressman Thornberry, and he said, "Wait for me." I don't
think he saw the Vice President. And I told the driver to continue. I
didn't want to stop there in front of the hospital. But by this time
Congressman Thomas was right over at the side of the car, and the Vice
President said, "Stop and let him get in."
So he got in in the front seat with Congressman Thornberry, having
Congressman Thornberry move over closer to the driver. And then we
started out again. This probably takes longer to tell about it than it
actually took. It was about a 30-second stop.
We started out again, and the Vice President asked Congressman
Thornberry to climb on over and get in the back seat, which he did,
while the car was in motion. And then that put Congressman Thornberry
behind the driver, and on the Vice President's left, and I was on his
right.
And we continued on our way. We were momentarily stopped as we were
leaving the hospital on this access road. There was a truck or delivery
or something coming in there. We were stopped for one moment. But then
the police got us on through, and we went on out to the main roads, and
we were getting a motorcycle escort.
And they started using the sirens, and the Vice President and I both
asked Chief Curry to discontinue the use of sirens, that we didn't want
to attract attention. We were going on an unscheduled different route.
We were not using any particular route. But in telling Lem Johns to get
a car available, I told him to be sure and get a local driver who knew
the area, a local policeman who could take us any route that we needed
to go, and knew all the areas of evacuation and so forth.
So we went on to the airport. But we did have him stop using the
sirens. And just before arriving at the airport, I called on the radio
and told Air Force 1 to be ready to receive us, that we would be coming
on board immediately. We arrived there and ran up the ramp onto the
plane.
Mr. SPECTER. And how long after that did the swearing-in ceremonies
occur? Approximately?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would say in the neighborhood of about 40 or 45
minutes after that.
Mr. SPECTER. How long after the arrival of the Vice President on the
plane did the party of the late President Kennedy and Mrs. Kennedy
arrive at the plane?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Approximately--after we got on the plane, I would say
it was approximately 30 or 35 minutes before Mrs. Kennedy and that
party arrived.
Mr. SPECTER. And how long after the swearing-in ceremonies did the
plane take off for the Washington area?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. After the swearing-in ceremonies, it took off
immediately. It was just a matter of letting the people who had to get
off the plane, such as Judge Hughes and Chief Curry disembark, and as
soon as they had disembarked, we closed the door and started taxiing
out.
Mr. SPECTER. Were there any conversations between Vice President
Johnson and anyone else with respect to advice on the swearing-in
ceremonies?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir. I think probably the first thing the Vice
President did after he got on board the plane was to place a call to
the Attorney General. In fact, he talked to the Attorney General, I
believe, two times--at least two times.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you present when those conversations occurred?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I was present when he placed the first call. I think he
placed the first call from the bedroom there of the plane. Then someone
from the Attorney General's office called back--not the Attorney
General, but someone from the office--and gave the wording of the oath.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you informed as to what advice Vice President Johnson
received from Mr. Kennedy with respect to the time of swearing in?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I heard him discussing this--because after we got on
board the plane I told them to pull down the shades, and then I told
the Vice President, I am going to stick with you like glue while we
are on the ground here. And so we were joined by Mrs. Johnson and then
by Congressman Thornberry and Thomas, and Congressman Brooks. And I
heard them discussing about taking the oath immediately, right there in
Dallas. I heard the Vice President ask about anyone in particular that
should administer the oath. And as I gathered from conversation, it was
anyone who was authorized to administer a Federal oath. And then he put
in calls to Judge Hughes, and he told me to expect Judge Hughes and to
be sure she could get through the security lines.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, were you informed that Attorney General Kennedy
advised Vice President Johnson that he should have himself sworn in as
promptly as possible?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, as I said, I was in the area, in their immediate
vicinity, when they were talking about it. And this is what I gathered
from hearing them talk--that the Attorney General had told him to go
ahead and be sworn in there, as soon as possible.
Mr. SPECTER. And upon arrival back in Andrews Air Force Base, what
activity, if any, were you engaged in then, along with President
Johnson?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, on the plane, on the flight up here, there had
been numerous radio contacts in making arrangements and so forth. But
when we actually arrived, Mrs. Kennedy and the body were removed first
by the lift that was provided, and then when the ramp was in place,
our party disembarked from the plane, and then President Johnson had a
short statement that he was to make, and we went over to an area where
the microphones were set up, and he made this brief statement. And then
we proceeded from there to the awaiting helicopter, which was just a
few yards away. We boarded the helicopter and flew in to the south
grounds of the White House.
Mr. SPECTER. And did you then accompany President Johnson to his home?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. He didn't go to his home at that time; but the answer
to your question is yes, when he did go later that night. You see,
he went to his office in the EOB, the Executive Office Building, and
conducted business there until in the vicinity of 9 o'clock. And then
he went home, at which time I accompanied him, and many other agents.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you describe briefly what security arrangements if
any were instituted on that day for the Vice President's daughters?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.
While we were in the hospital, receiving these reports relative to
President Kennedy's condition, I asked Mrs. Johnson--I knew generally
where Luci and Lynda were, but I wanted to get the very latest from
her, since sometimes these girls might visit a friend or a relative.
And I knew that Lynda was going to the University of Texas, and that
Luci was going to National Cathedral. So I confirmed the locations with
Mrs. Johnson and then told Agent Kivett, who was in our presence at the
time I was talking to her, to make the necessary calls to have Secret
Service protection placed around Lynda and Luci. And Agent Kivett made
these calls and then came back and reported to me that Lockwood, from
Austin, who is in the San Antonio office, but he was in Austin at the
time, had proceeded to the University of Texas to get Lynda, and that
an agent from the Washington field office would go out and get Luci at
the school.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, I move for the admission into evidence
of Commission Exhibits No. 354, which is a reproduction of the overhead
shot, and 355, which is a reproduction of the Vice Presidential detail
schedules.
The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted.
(The documents heretofore marked for identification as Commission
Exhibits Nos. 354 and 355, were received in evidence.)
Mr. SPECTER. That concludes my questions, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Craig, any questions?
Mr. CRAIG. No, sir.
Mr. MURRAY. I have no questions, Mr. Chief Justice.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, Agent Youngblood, thank you very much for coming
and testifying. We appreciate it.
We will adjourn now. We will adjourn until 9 in the morning.
(Whereupon, at 6:20 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
_Tuesday, March 10, 1964_
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT HILL JACKSON, ARNOLD LOUIS ROWLAND, JAMES RICHARD
WORRELL, JR., AND AMOS LEE EUINS
The President's Commission met at 9:15 a.m. on March 10, 1964 at 200
Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman
Cooper and Representative Gerald R. Ford, members.
Also present were Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel; David W. Belin,
assistant counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel; Arlen Specter,
assistant counsel; and Edward L. Wright, Chairman, House of Delegates,
American Bar Association.