Mr. SPECTER. So far as your best testimony is at this time, it was
simply not made by you on November 22?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right, now. Was that statement I just read to you, the
short one about your turn, to the best of your recollection at this
moment, did you ever make that statement to Special Agents O'Neill
and/or Sibert?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, everybody I have talked to I have always
turned to the right when I first heard the noise. I turned to my left
to view the people in my back seat because it is a more comfortable
position. So I don't think the turning is correct, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the report is incorrect?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Representative FORD. May I ask--you have viewed these colored motion
pictures which were taken during the assassination. Have you looked at
those to see what your own actions were during this period of time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Representative FORD. Do they coincide with what you have testified to
here today?
Mr. KELLERMAN. They certainly do.
Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you a photograph marked Commission Exhibit No.
352, and ask you if you can tell us what that picture represents?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; this was the rear seat of the President's car,
sir, after all the occupants were removed.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did the rear seat of the President's car look
like the picture 352?
Mr. KELLERMAN. After all the occupants were removed on the 22d of
November.
Mr. SPECTER. When the car was parked at Parkland Hospital?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I don't know where this picture was taken, sir. This
could have been taken in the White House garage.
Mr. SPECTER. Yes; but aside from where the picture was taken, is that
the way the car looked at the time it was at Parkland Hospital after
President Kennedy and Governor Connally were removed from the car?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe for the written record very briefly what
this picture shows?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The picture shows the complete rear seat of the
Presidential limousine.
Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, is on the rear seat?
Mr. KELLERMAN. On the seat part of this car is splattered with blood;
there are a few petals of flowers, and the back seat cushion part is
pretty well bloodied up.
Mr. SPECTER. I move for the introduction in evidence of Commission
Exhibit No. 352.
Representative FORD. So admitted.
(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 352 for
identification, and received in evidence.)
Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you, through the Chairman, Commission Exhibit
No. 353, move its admission into evidence, and ask you to tell us what
this depicts.
Mr. KELLERMAN. This is the same Presidential vehicle after the
occupants have been removed from the rear seat. It shows the--a goodly
amount of blood that had remained on the cushion and back part of the
seat and also little flower petals.
Mr. SPECTER. Is Exhibit No. 353 an accurate representation of the way
the rear seat of the President's automobile looked after----
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. After President Kennedy and Governor Connally were removed
to Parkland Hospital.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; it is.
Mr. SPECTER. You have described in answers to previous questions what
occurred upon the arrival at Parkland of the President's automobile.
What action, if any, did you take immediately after President Kennedy
and Governor Connally were taken into the hospital?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I believe we had got to the point where I had made
this phone call to Washington to alert these people back here of the
incident.
Mr. SPECTER. And proceeding from that point?
Mr. KELLERMAN. From this point, the agents who were in this followup
car had joined me in the emergency room. They took up security posts
at entrance into the emergency room to keep it clear of all people
except medical people. The only people allowed in there would be
workers. After this was done, Special Agent Kinney came to me and asked
permission to remove the President's car and our followup car to the
airport, to load it aboard this aircraft for shipment to Washington,
and I said, "Yes."
At that time the next move was Special Agent Warren Taylor, who was
assigned to the then Vice President Johnson, came to me and he said,
"Mr. Johnson wants to talk to you." So, I followed him into this room
that they had the Johnson party in. He asked me the condition of
President Kennedy, which I told him that President Kennedy is still in
the emergency room, his condition is serious. He then said, "You let me
know of any developments."
I then returned to the emergency room. By that time another shift of
agents, who were at the Trade Mart on duty for prior to our arrival,
reported into the emergency room. This is what is called as our
afternoon shift, the 4 to 12. Mr. Roberts, whose group was on the
followup car in the motorcade through Dallas, was the 8-to-4 shift.
The 4-to-12 shift then was under the supervision of Mr. Stewart Stout.
I then instructed Mr. Roberts to take his shift, which were the day
people, and join Special Agent Rufus Youngblood and stay with Vice
President Johnson.
Mr. SPECTER. How many agents were they to take with them?
Mr. KELLERMAN. They took the entire followup car, which would mean that
they had Roberts, Ready, Bennett, McIntyre; those four.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know where they went or what specifically they did
by way of establishing security for Vice President Johnson?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No; I really don't.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your next activity?
Mr. KELLERMAN. My next move, then, my next part in this was--by this
time it was after 1 o'clock--I am trying to pinpoint time--after 1,
because Dr. Burkley said that the President had died; it was after 1
o'clock. By this time other people who were in with Mr. Kennedy, such
as his staff--I am speaking of Mr. O'Donnell, Mr. Powers, I believe
Larry O'Brien--through them, and I believe Mr. Hill, they had obtained
a casket from one of the funeral people in town.
Mr. SPECTER. Where had Mrs. Kennedy been during this time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mrs. Kennedy was right outside the door to the emergency
room.
Mr. SPECTER. How long, if at all, was she inside the emergency room
with President Kennedy?
Mr. KELLERMAN. This I can't truly answer. However, I should say that,
as for the casket being brought into the hospital, another gentleman
came into this little doctor's room, his name I don't recall, but he
represented himself to be from the Health Department or commission,
some form. He said to me, he said, "There has been a homicide here, you
won't be able to remove the body. We will have to take it down there
to the mortuary and have an autopsy." I said, "No, we are not." And he
said, "We have a law here whereby you have to comply with it."
With that Dr. Burkley walked in, and I said, "Doctor, this man is from
some health unit in town. He tells me we can't remove this body." The
Doctor became a little enraged; he said, "We are removing it." He
said, "This is the President of the United States and there should be
some consideration in an event like this." And I told this gentleman,
I said, "You are going to have to come up with something a little
stronger than you to give me the law that this body can't be removed."
So, he frantically called everybody he could think of and he hasn't got
an answer; nobody is home. Shortly he leaves this little room and it
seems like a few minutes he is back and he has another gentleman with
him, and he said, "This is"--the name escapes me--he said, "He is a
judge here in Dallas," and he said, "He will tell you whether you can
remove this body or not." I said, "It doesn't make any difference. We
are going to move it," and I said, "Judge, do you know who I am?"
And he said, "Yes," and I said, "There must be something in your
thinking here that we don't have to go through this agony; the family
doesn't have to go through this. We will take care of the matter when
we get back to Washington." The poor man looked at me and he said, "I
know who you are," and he said, "I can't help you out." I said, "All
right, sir." But then I happened to look to the right and I can see
the casket coming on rollers, and I just left the room and let it out
through the emergency entrance and we got to the ambulance and put it
in, shut the door after Mrs. Kennedy and General McHugh and Clinton
Hill in the rear part of this ambulance.
I am looking around for Mr. Greer and I don't spot him directly because
I want to get out of here in a hurry, and I recognize Agent Berger and
I said, "Berger, you get in the front seat and drive and, Mr. Stout,
you get in the middle and I will set on this side," and as we are
leaving--Mr. Lawson, I should say, was in a police car that led us away
from Parkland Memorial Hospital. As we are leaving a gentleman taps on
the driver's window and they roll it down and he says, "I will meet you
at the mortuary." "Yes, sir." We went to the airport, gentlemen.
Mr. SPECTER. Who said, "Yes, sir"?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I did, sir. We went to the airport. In the meantime, Mr.
Johnson had been taken to the airplane. They had secured the airport;
nobody was there. They had removed seats off the rear part of the plane
so we could put the body and the casket in it. As we got to the airport
the ramp was there; we opened the door, and we moved the casket out and
walked it right up to the plane.