Senator COOPER. Has that been your recollection from the very time of
the shooting?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir; it has been my opinion.
Senator COOPER. Not your opinion, but from the time of the shooting you
think then that you heard only three shots, or did you----
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes.
Senator COOPER. Or did you ever think that you heard more than three?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir; I can't say that, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you referred to four wounds, Mr. Kellerman,
realizing, of course, your characterization is only lay opinion.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Very true.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you tell us which wounds you made reference to by
that statement, please?
Mr. KELLERMAN. All right. Can I keep the train going from the time we
got to the hospital?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir; do it in your own way just as you please.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Fine. As we arrived at the hospital I immediately got
out of the car. Our followup car is in back of us, as you will recall.
I yelled to the agents, "Get in"--"Go get us two stretchers on wheels."
In the meantime in a matter of seconds--I don't know how they got out
so fast--I turned right around to the back door and opened it. By this
time Mrs. Connally had raised up, and the Governor is lying in her lap,
face up. His eyes are open and he is looking at me, and I am fairly
sure he is alive. By this time I noticed the two stretchers coming out
of the emergency room, and I said to the Governor, I said, "Governor,
don't worry; everything is going to be all right." And he nodded his
head, which I was fairly convinced that that man was alive.
By this time the stretcher is there. I get inside on one side of him,
and Special Agent Hill on the other. Somebody is holding his feet, and
we remove the Governor and put him on the stretcher and they take him
in.
We then get in and help Mrs. Connally out. Our next move is to get
Mrs. Kennedy off from the seat, which was a little difficult, but
she was removed. Then Mr. Hill removed his coat and laid it over the
President's face and shoulder. He and I among two other people--I
don't know--we lifted up the President and put him on a stretcher and
followed him right into the emergency room.
Gentlemen, this emergency room is a, it looks like a, checkerboard;
it has a walkway down the center and a crossway and there are rooms
on each side. President Kennedy was put into the one on the right,
Governor Connally across on the left. And as we pushed the wheelchair
in--we pushed the stretcher inside, the medical people just seemed to
form right in, right there, and I walked around him and I wanted to
look at this man's face, they had him face up.
Senator COOPER. The President?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The President; I am sorry. I did not see any wounds in
that man's face.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating with your hand at that moment the front part of
his face?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. May I interrupt you just to ask whether you had any
view----
Mr. KELLERMAN. Surely.
Mr. SPECTER. Of the rear part of his head?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I did not, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the rearmost or uppermost portion of President
Kennedy's head which you could observe at that time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. It was the hairline to the ear, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Proceed.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Having all the medical people in there, my business is
left in their hands. So I left. Mrs. Kennedy, incidentally, was still
in there.
Mr. SPECTER. In where, sir?
Mr. KELLERMAN. In the emergency room with him. Which after a few
minutes they convinced her to leave, and she sat outside the room while
they were working over the President. I walked into this center area
of this emergency room--and I am looking for a telephone--which there
is a little doctor's office and I walked inside, and I am alone at
that time, except one medic who was in there. There are two phones and
I said, "Can I use either one of these phones to get outside?" and he
said, "Yes; just pick one up."
By this time Mr. Lawson enters and also Mr. Hill. I asked Mr. Lawson
for the telephone number of the Dallas White House switchboard.
He immediately has it and I said to Mr. Hill, "Will you dial it,
please?" By that time a medic comes into the room from President
Kennedy's section and he asks if anybody knows the blood type of the
President--President Kennedy. We all carry it. I produce mine, and that
is what I believe they used; I am not sure. By this time the connection
is made with the White House operator in Dallas, and I took the phone,
identified myself, and I said, "Give me Washington. Please don't pull
this line; let's leave it open."
I got the Washington operator and I said, identified myself, and I
said, "Give me Mr. Behn."
Mr. Behn was in the office at the time, and I said--his name is Gerald
Behn--and I said, "Gerry, we have had an incident here in Dallas. The
President, the Governor have been shot. We are in the emergency room
of the Parkland Memorial Hospital." I said, "Mark down the time."
Of course, since that time until now we have disagreed on about 3
minutes. I said it is 12:38, which would be 1:38 Dallas time. I am
sorry--Washington time.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that at the time you were talking to Mr. Behn?
Mr. KELLERMAN. To Mr. Behn; yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And your version is that it is 12:38 Dallas time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. 12:38. He said it was 12:41; he told me the next day.
Mr. SPECTER. May I interrupt you there for you to tell us how long
after you arrived at the hospital did you make that telephone call to
Mr. Behn, to the best of your recollection?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Three to five minutes.
Mr. SPECTER. All right. The topic we are on now, Mr. Kellerman, is your
own way of relating the description of the wounds, starting with four
wounds on President Kennedy.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right; OK.
Mr. SPECTER. Proceed, then.
Mr. KELLERMAN. I can eclipse an awful lot here and get into the morgue
here in Bethesda, because that is where I looked him over.
Mr. SPECTER. I will come back and pick up some of the other detail.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Fine.
Mr. SPECTER. But for the sequence at the moment, as it relates to your
conclusions on the shots which you have already testified about----
Mr. KELLERMAN. OK.
Mr. SPECTER. I would like to develop your understanding and your
observations of the four wounds on President Kennedy.
Mr. KELLERMAN. OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval
Hospital in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5
inches; would that be approximately correct?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the rear portion of the head.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. More to the right side of the head?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. This was removed.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say, "This was removed," what do you mean by this?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The skull part was removed.
Mr. SPECTER. All right.
Representative FORD. Above the ear and back?
Mr. KELLERMAN. To the left of the ear, sir, and a little high; yes.
About right in here.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say "removed," by that do you mean that it was
absent when you saw him, or taken off by the doctor?
Mr. KELLERMAN. It was absent when I saw him.
Mr. SPECTER. Fine. Proceed.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound,
right here.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the
right of the ear about the lower third of the ear?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the size of that aperture?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The little finger.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the diameter of the little finger.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, what was the position of that opening with respect to
the portion of the skull which you have described as being removed or
absent?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Well, I am going to have to describe it similar to this.
Let's say part of your skull is removed here; this is below.
Mr. SPECTER. You have described a distance of approximately an inch and
a half, 2 inches, below.
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is correct; about that, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right. What other wounds, if any, did you notice on
the President?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The other wound that I noticed was on his shoulder.
Mr. SPECTER. Which shoulder.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right shoulder.
Mr. SPECTER. And was it--what was its general position with respect to
the breadth of the back?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right straight.
Mr. SPECTER. No. Upper shoulder, lower shoulder; how far below the
lower neckline would you say?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The upper neckline, sir, in that large muscle between
the shoulder and the neck, just below it.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the size of that opening?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Again about the size of a little finger.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, have you described three wounds which you have
observed?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is three. The fourth one I will have to collaborate
with--the medical people in Dallas said that he had entry in the throat
or an exit.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you are indicating a part on the throat right
underneath your tie as you sit there, the knot of your tie.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Who told you that?
Mr. KELLERMAN. This comes from a report from Dr. Kemp Clark.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to Dr. Clark personally?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I did not. This is a written report.
Mr. SPECTER. This is a written report which you have read?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; that is right.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have any knowledge of that wound on the front side
aside from the written report of Dr. Kemp Clark?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Except that in the morgue it was very visible that they
had incisioned him here to insert the tracheotomy that they performed
on him.
Mr. SPECTER. So with the operative procedures to perform a tracheotomy,
was there anything, in your view, left of the original entry?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Entry or exit that you have described.
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All you could see at that point was the operative
procedure, the cutting of the surgeon's blade in Dallas?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Senator COOPER. You are saying this, then, that you did not see,
yourself, at any time the mark of any wound in his neck front?
Mr. KELLERMAN. When we took him into the hospital in Dallas; that is
right.
Senator COOPER. What?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right; when we took him in the hospital in
Dallas, I did not.
Senator COOPER. Did you ever see it?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Only after he was opened up in the morgue; yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. You saw some indication or some mark of a wound in the
front of his neck?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Senator, from the report of the doctor who worked on him
in Dallas, that he enlarged the incision here in his throat to perform
that tracheotomy, and I believe in his own statement that that wound
was there prior to this incision.