_DIRECT EXAMINATION_
* * * * *
DR. SAUTER: Now, Witness, I come to a different problem. It is the
suggestion made at that time that Poles suffering from incurable
contagious tuberculosis should be liquidated. You were interrogated in
January 1946 at Oberursel concerning your participation in the plan for
the extermination of tubercular Poles, and also on 9 and 22 October 1946
here in the prison. Were the statements you made at that time true?
DEFENDANT BLOME: Yes. But I must add that concerning this matter of the
tubercular Poles, as far as I recall, I said it was in 1943, while in
reality, as the files now show, it took place in 1942. I must also say
that my letter to Greiser in November 1942 has been shown to me here. I
was asked whether this was my letter, whether I had written this letter.
I said “No.” I said that because it was not a photostatic copy of the
original, but a photostatic copy of a copy. I objected to several things
in the letter and did not acknowledge it at that time. They were
external matters which occasioned me to make that statement. Later,
however, in December, when you took over my case, you gave me this
photostatic copy, and I had an opportunity to study it carefully and
reconstruct the conditions which existed at the time and, therefore, I
now acknowledge this letter as authentic.
Q. It is true, Dr. Blome, that the prosecution learned for the first
time of this plan to exterminate the Poles through you? Dr. Blome, what
can you say about that?
A. Yes. The prosecution learned from me for the first time of this plan.
In 1942 I told my interrogator Captain Urbach at Oberursel about it,
after he had described the details of the atrocities which I had not
known up to that time.
Q. You just said 1942.
A. I meant 1945. I meant December 1945. I beg your pardon. I do not
believe that the prosecution had any knowledge of this, at least not at
Oberursel.
Q. Dr. Blome, this whole matter begins with a letter from the Reich
Governor Greiser dated 1 May 1942. (_NO-246, Pros. Ex. 196._) Tell us
briefly who Greiser was.
A. This was Arthur Greiser, Gauleiter of the Warthegau, the Reich
Governor of the Wartheland, and the Reich Defense Commissioner of the
Wartheland.
Q. This Gauleiter Greiser, who was a Gauleiter in a district which now
belongs to Poland, sent a letter on May 1st to the Reich Leader SS
suggesting that Poles suffering from tuberculosis in the Wartheland
should be liquidated if the existence of open tuberculosis and the
incurability of the patients were established by official doctors. In
this connection Greiser writes and (this is what I want to ask you
about) I quote, “The increasing dangers were also recognized and
appreciated by Deputy Reich Leader of Public Health, Dr. Blome, as well
as by the Leader of your X-ray unit, SS Standartenfuehrer, Dr.
Hohlfelder.” That is the quotation. What can you tell us today about
these apparently early discussions between you and Gauleiter Greiser?
A. I talked to Gauleiter Greiser about three times, concerning the
combating of tuberculosis in Wartheland, certainly once in the presence
of Professor Hohlfelder. These discussions go back to the year 1941. I
can recall Greiser once saying that the simplest thing would be to treat
the incurable tubercular Poles exactly like the insane by means of
euthanasia. I pointed out that the comparison was not valid. The Poles,
I also said, were not German citizens. The plan which Greiser was
considering was a radical solution but I could not agree to it. When
sometime later I learned of the so-called Fuehrer order, according to
which the euthanasia action was stopped and prohibited, I considered
this matter and Greiser’s statement as settled. Then the year 1942 was
filled with purely organizational preparation for the tuberculosis
action. For example, all the population had to be registered in card
index files, Germans as well as Poles; preparations had to be made for a
series of X-ray examinations. Then these examinations had to be
evaluated, and so on. The latter was a matter for the state health
offices, that is the National Socialist welfare organization, and the
X-ray unit which was to carry out the technical side of these
examinations. From time to time I had a report from Professor Hohlfelder
about the preparations. Only when all prerequisites were fulfilled, did
I give my approval for such large scale action. The execution of this
action was dependent upon my personal approval. I only took action in
this tuberculosis question in the Warthegau when I received alarming
reports about an alleged liquidation order from Himmler. I learned of it
because at the beginning of November Sturmbannfuehrer Perwitschky came
to my office in Berlin and reported to me that Greiser had an order from
Himmler to the effect that incurably sick cases of tuberculosis found
during the planned examinations in the Wartheland were to be liquidated.
Perwitschky belonged to the X-ray unit and was business manager for the
society combating tuberculosis. Then I immediately reached an agreement
with Perwitschky that I would meet Professor Hohlfelder at Poznan to
discuss the matter and to prevent Himmler’s and Greiser’s plans from
being carried out. I went to Poznan and discussed the matter with
Hohlfelder. We were both greatly astonished at this order from Himmler.
We agreed that this order must not be carried out, and that we as German
doctors could not lend our aid to such an action. We discussed the
manner in which this Himmler-Greiser plan could be prevented. We decided
that I should go to Greiser first of all. I telephoned Greiser from this
conference and said that it was very important that I should speak to
him. Then I talked to him on the same day, or on the next day. When I
asked Greiser whether Himmler’s orders for liquidating were correct, he
said “Yes.” He said he had the order in his hands. I said that I was
willing to prevent this plan in any case and explained why. I said that
in the first place as a doctor I could not participate in this and, in
the second place, I pointed out the political danger connected with such
a crime.
Then Greiser agreed that I should write a letter for him which he would
pass on to Himmler for a decision. As for Greiser’s letter to Himmler of
May 1942 (_NO-246, Pros. Ex. 196_) which you just mentioned, Dr. Sauter,
I learned of it for the first time from files here, and Himmler’s
opinion concerning my letter of November 1942 I learned of here for the
first time too. Up to that time I did not know about Himmler’s letter to
Greiser. In the letter of May 1942, from Greiser to Himmler, Greiser
writes, I quote, “that Hohlfelder and Blome recognized the
ever-increasing risks and appreciated them.” But he does not say that
Hohlfelder and I approved liquidation. The letter does not say that. My
basic opinion on the problem is the following: Let us suppose that we in
Germany had a valid law for the liquidation of incurably sick persons.
Assuming that such a law did exist, it would, of course, be out of the
question to apply it to non-Germans. Application in this case would be a
crime, especially during war. Germany had occupied foreign territory
and, as an occupying power, had to observe international law in the
treatment given to the occupied territories. As for the problem of
tuberculosis, I had dealt with it for some time, especially since 1935
when I had incorporated the tuberculosis question into the post-graduate
medical training. In 1937 Professor Janker, Bonn, a well-known X-ray
specialist, called upon me for aid in developing a new procedure which,
with a minimum of cost, would make it possible to examine large groups
of the population. This was the so-called X-ray screen photography which
was developed. I shall give you a brief explanation of this. Previously
for an X-ray picture of the lungs, a film had been needed of 24 by 30
centimeters. This new procedure required a film of about only 4 by 4
centimeters. That is, the so-called Leica size. The pictures were taken
with a Leica. The X-ray screen was photographed. The successful
development of this procedure meant that for an X-ray photograph, in
place of the price of from twelve to thirteen marks, which the social
insurance had paid, it now could be produced for about ten pfennigs:
that is, less than one percent.
The further value of the development of this process was that one would
no longer need several minutes for an X-ray photograph, but this
procedure was developed to such an extent that we could take two hundred
to three hundred pictures per minute. I developed this screen picture
process together with Janker until we reached the results which I have
just described. At the X-ray Congress in May 1938 in Munich I made this
process public and I stated that with its aid one could begin a
large-scale fight against tuberculosis. Only a few people believed my
words at the time, and some smiled pityingly. After this congress,
Professor Hohlfelder, who was later commander of the X-ray unit, came to
me, and working with X-ray science, the optical industry, the film
industry, X-ray industry, screen industry, etc., we developed the
process during the course of that same year to such an extent that in a
short time we were able to X-ray practically every inhabitant in the
whole province of Mecklenburg. The procedure was then gradually
developed until we could easily have X-rayed ten million or more in
Germany per year. Then, during the war, at my instigation, in 1939 and
1940, we X-rayed the population of the whole province of Westphalia;
then in 1941, the whole province of Wuerttemberg, including
Hohenzollern. Now there was the plan to X-ray the people of Wartheland.
Gauleiter Greiser had approached me, because approval had to be obtained
from me, and I gave such approval only if all prerequisites were given,
so that the cases which were discovered could be given some medical and
clinical attention. It had been our experience in these examinations
that one percent new tuberculosis cases were discovered which had
hitherto been completely undetected. For the Warthegau alone, with a
Polish population of four and one-half millions, that would have meant
forty-five thousand new cases of tuberculosis, not counting the ten
thousand from among the one million German population. I had withheld my
approval for such actions because at that time, with the development of
this invention, a plan of irresponsible X-raying was being carried out
by various Gauleiters and by large industries. Everyone wanted to take
up the battle against tuberculosis but that would have been a disaster
unless there had been some check. When whole groups of population were
X-rayed, there had to be the necessary preparation of medical supplies
from the beginning, otherwise there would have been a catastrophe.
Through this action and through these many new cases of tuberculosis
which were discovered, I consciously put the state in a difficult
situation. I forced the state to issue a new law for the fight against
tuberculosis. This law which was issued was the Tuberculosis Aid Law.
This law formed the basis for the lung examination of the population of
the Wartheland which was actually carried out in 1943-1944. This law, it
can be proved, was not only of benefit to the German population in the
Warthegau, but also to the Polish population, as is clearly seen from
the affidavit of Regierungsdirektor Dr. Gundermann. (_Blome 1, Blome Ex.
8._) Dr. Gundermann was the chief medical officer of the Wartheland;
that is, he had the main responsibility for the fight against
tuberculosis in this Gau.
Q. Dr. Blome, before we go into the letter of 18 November 1942, I should
like to return to the spring of 1942. (_NO-250, Pros. Ex. 203._) We just
heard of a letter from Gauleiter Greiser dated May 1942, in which he
suggests that Poles suffering from tuberculosis should be liquidated. He
writes “that the ever-increasing risks were also recognized and
appreciated by the Deputy of the Reich Leader for Public Health,
Professor Dr. Blome.”
You said that Greiser does not mention that you approved the plan for
the liquidation of the Poles. I would be interested to know what your
attitude was at that time, in the spring of 1942, towards this plan. Did
you approve of the plan to liquidate tubercular Poles? Did you reject
it? What did you say about it?
A. In the spring of 1942 I expressed no opinion at all in respect to
this plan. The discussions with Greiser, as I said, were in the year
1941, at the time when the euthanasia action was still in operation. In
1942 I did not talk to Greiser about such a plan at all. I did not know
that Greiser intended to write this letter in May 1942 to Himmler, or
that he did actually write it. I heard about it only here and after
Greiser had made his statements in connection with the euthanasia
action. But the euthanasia action had been stopped by Hitler’s order,
and of course I assumed that such ideas on the part of Greiser were
settled too. I did not approve of his ideas, as I said before.
Q. Then, if I understand you correctly, you did not deal with this
matter in the fall of 1942 when this Perwitschky brought you alarming
news?
A. Yes. That is right.
Q. Can you tell us why Gauleiter Greiser discussed this tuberculosis
problem with you particularly?
A. The reason was, as I have already said, that the execution of such an
action depended on my approval. If I had said the Warthegau was not to
be X-rayed, then it would not have been X-rayed, no matter what the
Gauleiter did.
Q. Dr. Blome, Gauleiter Greiser was not thinking apparently of X-raying
but of liquidating. The letter of 1 May 1942, where he makes the
suggestion, speaks only of liquidation. It says nothing about X-raying.
I would like to find out how you became involved in this matter, and
when you heard of Greiser’s plan for the first time, the plan to
eliminate the tubercular Poles?
A. Of course Gauleiter Greiser was thinking of X-raying; that is
essential for detecting incurable cases of tuberculosis.
Q. Then, Witness, on the 18th of November you wrote a letter. (_NO-250,
Pros. Ex. 203._) This is the letter which the prosecution has described
as a “masterpiece of murderous intention.” Did you discuss this letter
beforehand with the Reich Physician Leader, Dr. Conti?
A. No. After I had talked to Greiser I saw Conti for a short time in
Berlin, or I went to see Conti to report to him about the plan and about
my talk with Greiser. Dr. Conti said, “What do you want? That’s an order
from the Reich Leader, that is, Himmler!” Then I told Conti what I had
agreed upon with Greiser, and that I would write a letter to that effect
to be sent on to Himmler. This he agreed to and also to my writing this
letter. But I did not discuss the contents with Dr. Conti. I did not see
any point in doing so. This statement of Conti’s showed that he knew
about this plan of liquidation.
Q. Witness, this letter which you wrote to Gauleiter Greiser, in which
you opposed liquidation of the Poles, did you write it by yourself or
did you discuss the draft of this letter with anyone?
A. First of all I wrote the letter by myself. After I had returned to
Berlin from Poznan I had to go to Munich. When I came back from Munich I
wrote this letter. I made various rough drafts. It was not easy. I had
discussed the general tactics with Hohlfelder according to which we
would start right at the beginning of the letter by appearing to agree
to the ideas, but then in the second part of the letter we would list
all the political factors which might induce Himmler and the others to
give up such an action. It was not easy to write such a letter. I
worried about this letter a great deal until I thought I finally had a
right draft.
In my preliminary interrogation an interrogator asked me something to
this effect: “Why did you not simply give up your office and resign when
you heard about this plan?” My answer is as follows: It would, of
course, have been the simplest thing for me to take advantage of this
opportunity to give up my position. Then I would have had nothing more
to do with the whole matter; at least 40,000 Poles would have been
murdered, and I would not be under indictment today on this charge.
Please excuse me for saying this, but I must say it, when such a charge
is made against me. I will try to speak as dispassionately as possible.
Dr. Sauter had just said that the prosecution considers my letter a
“masterpiece of murderous intention”. I now state the following: Apart
from this questionable affidavit of Rudolf Brandt, the prosecution has
not produced a single document to prove the murder of tubercular Poles
by me. On the contrary, the prosecution has submitted Himmler’s reply
dated the end of November 1942, according to which Himmler, in answer to
my letter, prohibited the liquidation of the tubercular Poles, and this
letter expressly says that my suggestion was to be carried out and that
this matter was to be used as propaganda. In spite of that, the
prosecution makes such charges as these against me. I am accused of
being a murderer 10,000 times for a crime which I did not commit but
which I prevented, as I can prove. I should like to say something else.
The press, of course, has taken up this charge. I cannot hold that
against the press. The consequence of this news, however, was that my
family, my wife and my little children, are subjected to unpleasantness
and even threats. Through this assertion of the prosecution, the name of
Blome has been defamed in a way which it does not deserve, especially if
it can be proved that I prevented the crime with which I am charged.
MR. HARDY: If it please your Honor, I object to any further comment of
this type from the witness.
PRESIDING JUDGE BEALS: Objection overruled. Witness may continue.
DEFENDANT BLOME: I beg your pardon if I got rather excited. I should
like to conclude my statement by saying that I hope that this case will
be soon cleared up, and that then the press will be chivalrous enough to
state that I not only did not commit this crime, but that I actually
prevented it.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, I should like to discuss with the witness the
letter of 18 November 1942 in which the defendant prevented the murder
of the Poles. It will take some time. I believe this would be a good
time to take a recess.
* * * * *
DR. SAUTER: Witness, during the morning session you explained to us
among other things the new method of X-ray photography, the so-called
screen photography; you stated that using this new method one could take
200 to 300 photographs per minute. Were you not wrong, didn’t you mean
perhaps per hour and not per minute?
DEFENDANT BLOME: Yes, per hour.
Q. I just wanted to correct that so that it does not appear erroneously
in the record. We shall continue, Witness, with the letter which we have
repeatedly discussed, the letter of 18 November 1942, regarding the
extermination of Poles. (_NO-250, Pros. Ex. 203._) It is a letter in
which you define your attitude towards the proposal made by Greiser,
namely to liquidate the tubercular Poles. Do you know the contents of
this letter?
A. Yes.
Q. In this letter you made certain proposals. May I ask you to tell us
what suggestions you actually made in that letter? Do you need the
letter for that purpose?
A. Thank you, I have it. The most suitable suggestion I considered to be
my suggestion to create an area in which one could put the tubercular
Poles, and I recalled the leper colonies well known throughout the
world. I must emphasize that there is a considerable difference between
tuberculosis and leprosy.
As I made the last draft of my letter, the leading medical officer of
Warthegau was suddenly announced. It was Dr. Gundermann, the highest
state medical officer of Warthegau. He reported that he had just come
from Dr. Conti, and that he had heard rumors from Warthegau that
tubercular Poles were to be liquidated. Dr. Conti had maintained a very
evasive attitude toward him, so he had left Dr. Conti without having
achieved any results and thereupon he had decided to come to me. I told
him that he had come at the most suitable moment, and I explained to him
the position as it had developed in the meantime. I told him of my
conversation with Hohlfelder and with Greiser, and of the letter which
had been decided upon. He was very pleased about it and was also pleased
that I shared his attitude of rejection. I showed him my draft letter
and he made a few suggestions. The number of geographical details in the
letter actually originated from Gundermann. In particular, he emphasized
the importance of a special settlement for tubercular Poles and
recognized this as the most suitable solution. I had already heard of
such suggestions, especially those arising from the tuberculosis meeting
in 1937. During that meeting two well-known German tuberculosis experts,
Dr. Dorn and Dr. Hein, had lectured on tuberculosis settlements. Very
useful experience had been obtained from such tuberculosis settlements,
not only in Germany but also in England. When making my suggestion to
Himmler I explained in detail how such a suggestion could be realized.
In my letter I explained the tactics that were to be used, taking into
consideration the mentality of people like Greiser and Himmler, and made
it appear as though I wanted to agree with their liquidation program.
Afterwards I cited all the political misgivings I had, naming individual
examples. Then I said that in one experiment the people who were
seriously ill and those who were contagious would be segregated, and
that Polish physicians and Polish nursing personnel would be attached to
these seriously ill patients in order to avoid the appearance of a death
camp. Every physician knows, and it is also known in lay circles, that
if one isolates seriously ill people, such an isolation soon comes to be
considered as an isolation for death. That is why I said that the
necessary Polish physicians and nursing personnel must be attached to
these camps. My best suggestion I considered to be the creation of a
colony for all tubercular Poles.
In particular I wished to point out the following in my letter, I said,
and I quote: “I could imagine that as the Fuehrer stopped the program in
the insane asylums sometime ago, he might at this moment consider
’special treatment’ of the incurably sick as unsuitable, and unwise from
a political point of view.” I mentioned that because Greiser’s
suggestion in the year 1941 pointed to a comparison with the euthanasia
action. In order, however, to be quite sure that these political
misgivings also reached Hitler and that the decision did not rest mainly
in Himmler’s hands, I sent a copy of my letter direct to Martin
Bormann.[92] I furthermore want to point out the following matter. I
said: “I consider any secrecy completely impossible.” In this
connection, I should like to refer to a letter concerning a different
action, namely the letter from the Deputy Gauleiter of the Lower Danube,
dated 1942, which suggests experiments on the sterilization of national
groups such as gypsies. In this letter, contrary to my letter,
completely different tactics are used. The Deputy Gauleiter of the Lower
Danube stated that one must keep such an action very secret, because
otherwise it would have serious consequences from the point of view of
the state.
MR. HARDY: Is it the intention of the defendant to put the letter he is
referring to in as evidence, or is he merely quoting from his own
letter?
PRESIDING JUDGE BEALS: Can counsel for the defendant Blome advise the
Tribunal on that point?
DR. SAUTER: This is a letter which has already been used by the
prosecution and thus came to the knowledge of the defendant. Therefore
he can quote it. It is certainly not necessary to submit this letter
once more.
PRESIDING JUDGE BEALS: Would counsel please identify the letter, the
exhibit number, and where it may be found?
DR. SAUTER: One moment, please. Mr. President, this letter was submitted
by the prosecution concerning sterilization experiments. It was
submitted as Document NO-039—I repeat NO-039—Prosecution Exhibit 153.
It is a letter from the Deputy Gauleiter of the Lower Danube district
addressed to Reich Leader SS Himmler dated 24 August 1942. This letter
was already submitted by the prosecution.
* * * * *
DR. SAUTER: Doctor, will you please finish your answer?
DEFENDANT BLOME: In this letter the Deputy Gauleiter of the Lower Danube
district writes to Himmler, and I quote:
“We are quite clear about the fact that such examination must be
considered as an absolute state secret.”
That is exactly contrary to the tactics which I used. I say “I think
that any secrecy is quite impossible,” and I give detailed reasons for
this. I will merely give you a short excerpt from my letter. I point out
how many Polish workers there are in the German Reich, and that there
would be questions from their relatives about their whereabouts. Then I
indicate the number of Germans who are related to these Poles. I also
mention that, in the case of the Poles, we are concerned with members of
a conquered nation. I further point out that certain circles would
spread rumors among the population to the effect that similar methods
would be used in the case of German tubercular patients in the future. I
further show that in connection with the appointment of Professor Brandt
as Commissioner General, foreign broadcasts spread reports that Brandt
was no longer concerned with the rehabilitation of seriously wounded
people, but only with those people who had been slightly wounded. I
refer to the reaction which would result in the case of such a crime on
the part of the Italian physicians and scientists as well as the entire
Italian population. I furthermore refer to the Church, and I then say
and quote: “Therefore, I think it is necessary to explain all these
points of view to the Fuehrer before undertaking the program.”
With reference to my suggestion for a kind of reservation, I say in the
last paragraph of my letter, and I quote: “After a proper examination of
all these considerations and circumstances, the creation of a
reservation such as the lepers colonies seems to be the most practical
solution.”
Before that I had suggested that these tubercular settlements should be
arranged in such a manner that relations who were willing could also be
settled there. In this way in addition to the necessary nursing
personnel and the necessary Polish physicians, the necessary medical
care would be safeguarded.
Q. Witness, you previously referred to your suggestions, and you spoke
about a congress on tuberculosis questions in which you participated.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, I have an excerpt from the record of this
tuberculosis congress. It is a report on the Third International
Congress. It is a report on the proceedings of the German Tuberculosis
Conference dated 18 to 20 March 1937, which took place at Wiesbaden. Two
speeches are reproduced here in excerpt form.
PRESIDING JUDGE BEALS: Counsel, this document is found in supplemental
documents?
DR. SAUTER: Yes, in the supplemental volume. In this report a paper by
two well-known German tuberculosis experts is mentioned, a Dr. Erwin
Dorn, who was the chief physician of a sanatorium for chest diseases at
Charlottenhoehe, and a certain Dr. Joachim Hein, who was the director of
a sanatorium for chest diseases in Holstein. I am not going to read
these papers in detail, but I beg the Tribunal to take judicial notice
of them. I submitted these reports of the conference in order to show
that the same suggestions which this defendant, Dr. Blome, made in 1942
when writing to Gauleiter Greiser, are also contained here in the year
1937, and were made during the German Tuberculosis Conference. These
proposals did not concern foreign tubercular persons, but German
tubercular persons.
PRESIDING JUDGE BEALS: Does counsel offer this document into evidence?
DR. SAUTER: It will become exhibit 6, Blome Exhibit 6. Witness, in this
letter of 18 December 1942, about which we are speaking now, you really
dealt with three proposals: (1) special treatment for the seriously ill
persons; (2) most rigorous isolation of the seriously ill persons—that
is to say, separation from the outside world; and (3) the creation of a
reservation area for all tubercular patients in Poland. Now when reading
your letter, one gains the impression—at least one might gain the
impression—that you were speaking in favor of your first suggestion in
the first part of your letter, namely, the “special treatment” of the
seriously ill, which is to say their liquidation as was suggested and
desired by Himmler and Greiser.
My question is: Why did you not simply state very frankly in your letter
of 18 November 1942 that this liquidation of the incurably ill
tubercular Poles, as suggested by Greiser and Himmler, was a crime; that
it could under no circumstances be permitted, and that you, Dr. Blome,
would have nothing to do with any such proposal? Why did you not write
to Greiser on those lines at that time?
DEFENDANT BLOME: I think that I already defined my attitude towards that
question very briefly this morning, and I state again, I would have
preferred merely to have pointed out the criminal aspects of this
proposal in my letter, but I knew the mentality of these men, and it was
quite clear to me that the expression of any such point of view could
only have had a negative result. In doing that I would not have saved
myself, and much less 30,000 tubercular Poles—they would actually have
then been liquidated. If I had not wanted to present my true point of
view frankly, I would not have had to think for days about the letter;
it would only have been a matter of five or ten minutes. I would just
have had to dictate the letter and mail it. I had, however, realized,
and it was also the opinion of Professor Hohlfelder, that I would have
to make it appear as if I agreed to the plan if I wanted to have any
success with my counterproposals. I was convinced that the mention of
all the political aspects which might involve danger would be the only
effective weapon. The success of my procedure quite clearly speaks for
the correctness of my tactics. Yes, Himmler really wanted to carry out
this proposal I had made and he wanted to exploit it as propaganda; that
is clearly stated in Himmler’s letter to Greiser, dated the end of
November 1942. The documentary value of my letter can be seen only in
the following: It shows, firstly, that during that period of brutal
thinking, men like Himmler had no time for any considerations of a
humane nature; secondly, only by a clear and definite statement on my
part could the crime of the murder of 10,000 Poles be prevented, and I
was only concerned with that result.
Q. Witness, the suggestion which you made in your letter was that under
No. 2: the most rigorous isolation of the seriously ill persons. With
reference to this suggestion, the prosecution considers that during the
meeting of 19 December you had the idea of sending these tubercular
patients to institutions and I quote: “That opinion was voiced because
then the comparatively quick death of these patients would ensue in
these institutions.”
Was that really your intention, and did you think of any such
possibility at that time, that is, when you made the suggestion?
A. On the contrary I cannot recognize the evidence of the prosecution
regarding that point as being logical. Had it been my intention to let
the patients die, I would not have demanded that they be given the
necessary physicians and nursing personnel. In addition, I want to refer
to my former testimony on this point.
Q. The other suggestion you made at that time and which is listed under
No. 3 of your letter is the creation of a reservation for all tubercular
patients. During the same meeting of 19 December the prosecution said
with reference to that proposal, and I quote:
“With this plan, that is, to send all patients into a
reservation and thereby isolate them from the rest of the
population, you, Dr. Blome, wanted to cause these sick Poles to
be left to their fate with very few doctors and scanty nursing
personnel. The aim of liquidating these Poles was to be realized
in this way.”
What do you have to say, Dr. Blome, to this motive which the prosecution
imputes to you?
A. This motive is not correct. The contrary can clearly be seen from my
letter. In that connection I may refer to my previous explanation
regarding my letter. Furthermore, I refer to the affidavit of Dr.
Gundermann. (_Blome 1, Blome Ex. 8._) My interest was exactly the
contrary to what the prosecution tries to impute to me, for I was
planning the very same thing for Germany after the war. If I had been
able to carry through such an action, and had been able to show success
in that action, it would have been easier for me later on to refer to
the plans mentioned during the Tuberculosis Congress of 1937 by pointing
out the success I had achieved in the Warthegau. Even today I realize
that until we are able to bring about really effective medical
treatment, or vaccination against the spread of tuberculosis, the only
really practicable and effective solution is the creation of such
settlement areas or reservations.
Q. Dr. Blome, from your book, entitled “Physician in Combat”, which has
been submitted in evidence in its entirety as Blome Exhibit 1, it can be
seen that for quite a long time you had waged war against tuberculosis.
Can you tell us on the basis of your experiences whether these proposals
which you made in your letter of 18 December 1942—that is, either
housing the sick in tuberculosis institutions, or placing the
consumptives in a reservation area—whether these suggestions were
completely different from the manner of combating tuberculosis as
practiced in various foreign countries up to that time, or, if not
tuberculosis, other infectious diseases of the same importance as
tuberculosis?
A. Naturally the plan to set up a tuberculosis settlement on a large
scale does not represent anything absolutely new, because, as can be
seen from the documents submitted regarding the Tuberculosis Congress,
such tuberculosis settlements had existed in England and Holland in
addition to Germany, with good results; but, on the other hand, the
realization of this settlement idea would make an enormous difference to
fight against tuberculosis generally. The war difficulties that existed
in 1942 and 1943 did not permit this plan to be realized as suggested by
me for the Warthegau. The fight against tuberculosis continued, however,
in the usual way, as far as it was possible during the war, and as it
was dealt with throughout the Reich for Germans as well.
In other countries, other experiments were made. For instance in the
year 1935 certain well-known people in the city of Detroit, in America,
made a large-scale experiment for the combat of tuberculosis. After
preparations were made the entire population of Detroit was asked, by
means of enormous propaganda by press and radio, to submit to an
examination for tuberculosis, in order to find out the source of the
infection. The city of Detroit had made the necessary facilities
available for carrying out the examination and a certain success was
obtained. In particular, nearly the whole of the colored population of
Detroit reported for these examinations, whereas the American press, on
the other hand, complained that this was not fully the case with the
white population.
This action started in 1936 and was continued in 1937. I could not hear
anything about the ultimate results because the war had started. All
actions such as that action in Detroit, and small settlements in the
form of little villages for consumptives, will not solve the entire
problem unless done on a large scale. There is no doubt that the problem
of tuberculosis has not been tackled on a large scale in the world
today. The sole reason for that is that tuberculosis cannot be compared
with any other contagious disease such as diphtheria, cholera, typhoid.
These epidemics have a shorter course and quickly claim their victims.
If that had been the case with tuberculosis the fight against it would
have progressed much farther throughout the world. The tragic thing in
that problem is the manner of the disease itself, the slow tricky
course. That is why, in my opinion, there are nowhere in the world laws
which definitely secure the isolation of infectious tubercular subjects,
although such plans are being considered at all congresses dealing with
tuberculosis all over the world. As far as I know nobody has made a
decisive step, and I think the sole reason lies in the slow tricky
course of tuberculosis, in spite of the fact that tuberculosis is
regarded as having the second highest mortality of all diseases.
Q. In addition to that letter of 18 December 1942 about which we are
speaking now, did you take any more steps to frustrate the plan of
Greiser, namely, to liquidate all tubercular Poles, and in particular
did you turn to Hitler or Himmler personally in that matter?
A. No. I did not speak to Hitler at all throughout the entire war.
Q. How about Himmler?
A. I spoke to Himmler on various occasions, but that was about one year
later. At that time I had as yet no official relations with Himmler, and
I did not know him. Had this happened one year later, when I already had
official contact with Himmler, and had I known him better, I would not
have written a letter; I would have approached Himmler personally and
would have been able to frustrate the action without having to write a
letter. Having written this letter I received a report through Greiser
very shortly afterwards to the effect that Himmler had withdrawn his
order, and that settled the affair as far as I was concerned. I was only
informed that everything was handled in an orderly and legal manner in
the Warthegau as regards the examination and the registration of
tubercular persons.
Q. Who told you that this plan had been withdrawn on the basis of your
suggestion?
A. I heard it from Hohlfelder as well as from Perwitschky.