MR. MCHANEY: I do not think by any stretch of the imagination this
witness can testify from the records that Beiglboeck conducted an
examination or rejected three experimental subjects. In my opinion it
does not appear from the records, and he can only testify what
Beiglboeck told him. Unless he can say it does appear in the records, I
think it should be stricken.
PRESIDING JUDGE BEALS: Counsel has an opportunity of cross-examining the
witness at the close of his testimony.
DR. MARX: Professor, would you not say that regulations for these
experiments also mean that certain experiments, such as experiments on
one’s self and animal experiments, printed regulations, if you like,
must have been in existence or was that true of this case?
A. Yes, a report from Beiglboeck about an experiment carried out upon
himself is in existence which describes most efficiently the condition
in which he found himself during a sea-water experiment, and this
description tallies to the highest possible degree with what my
volunteers who submitted themselves to these experiments described. I
might deal with that later.
Q. What opinion do you have regarding the experiments which were carried
out by Sirany in Vienna?
A. There appeared to me to be a lack of critical attitude. I think
Schaefer had the same impression yesterday.
Q. Are symptoms recognizable regarding the planning of these experiments
which would go beyond the absolutely essential practical purposes and
which would lead to considerable pains or painful feelings or might have
led to that?
A. Of course it isn’t fun to be thirsty, and that is the major complaint
in these cases. These people are increasingly thirsty, and they are
disappointed to find that drinking sea-water doesn’t decrease but
increases their thirst, and towards the end of the experiments there are
disturbances of the muscles, and the temper doesn’t exactly improve. It
is the same in the salt water experiments where there are cramps of the
calf because of the lack of water, but the characteristics of that are
that these symptoms disappear instantaneously at the very moment when
the first glass of water is drunk.
Q. Would you consider it possible that disturbances of the nerve end
might appear? Temperature?
A. Temperature doesn’t happen at all, and I can’t imagine there being
disturbances of the nervous system at all.
Q. How about fits?
A. In the case of insane people there may appear insane fits, maybe, but
not in the case of normal human beings.
Q. If you yourself had been placed in this position, and considering
your attitude toward medical ethics, would you have objected to carrying
out the same type of experiment as was carried out here, if healthy,
strong, young men had been at your disposal?
A. I actually did it. Since I was interested in connection with
sea-water experiments, I called for volunteers among my young doctors,
and five of them volunteered, among them my youngest son, and they drank
synthetic sea-water, having the exact salt content of real sea-water,
drinking up to 500 cc.; they got a little food, because they were to
continue on duty during the experiment. The loss of weight varied and
was around one kilogram a day. At the end of the experiment, my son was
pretty thin, but after having a cup of tea was fine. Two days later he
had regained his lost weight fully. All five participants described the
experiment in the same way as Beiglboeck described the experiment
carried out on himself. Four of these subjects interrupted the
experiment after 5 days. One carried it out for 6 days, and apart from
continuous thirst, he had no complaints. Any serious disturbance or
damage is out of the question, and the extraordinary fact was the speed
with which all symptoms of thirst disappeared after water had been
taken.
Q. Now, Professor, the experiments we were talking about; did they have
a practical valuable aim and did they show a corresponding result?
A. Yes, that is correct. For instance an important observation was made
which Eppinger had expected; he wanted to see if the kidneys did
concentrate salt under such extreme conditions to an even higher extent
than one expected previously. One thought that it would be something
like 2.0 percent but 2.6 or 2.7 percent and record figures of 3.0, 3.5,
3.6, and 4 percent are shown, so that the fortunate man who is in a
position to concentrate 3.6 percent or 4 percent of salt would be able
to live on sea-water for quite a long period.
PRESIDING JUDGE BEALS: Witness, after a question is propounded to you by
your counsel, would you pause a moment before giving your answer so that
the question may be translated and conveyed and when you begin to make
your answer, would you speak a little more slowly?
A. Finally, one unsuspected fact was shown which may be connected with
this, and that is that the drinking of small quantities of sea-water up
to 500 cc. given over a lengthy period turned out to be better than
unalleviated thirst.
DR. MARX: What do you think of Wofatit generally?
A. It is a wonderful thing.
Q. Is it correct to say that sea-water really assumes the character of
drinking water through it?
A. Yes, the only difficulty would appear to be to obtain the drug in
sufficiently large quantities for a man who is shipwrecked and did not
have his luggage; but it is a wonderful discovery.
Q. So, you think that the result of these experiments is not only of
importance in wartime, but is also of importance for the problems of
seafaring nations?
A. Quite right, it is a wonderful thing for all sea-faring nations.
Q. So that both the experiments with Wofatit, as well as the experiments
made regarding the symptoms when such a drink was not available, were
important to show, for instance, the result of the consumption of
sea-water in certain given doses.
A. That is quite correct.
Q. That was only discovered by these experiments?
A. Quite correct.
* * * * *
_CROSS-EXAMINATION_
* * * * *
MR. HARDY: On what precisely is your testimony with respect to the
experiments by Beiglboeck based?
WITNESS VOLLHARDT: On the records and the descriptions that Beiglboeck
gave of the experiments.
Q. Precisely what records have you seen of these experiments?
A. The records that the defense counsel had in his hand yesterday or
today.
Q. Doctor, I will have passed up to you a set of records which are
numbered from 1 to 44 in red pencil, and I ask you, did you have those
records before you and did you make a study of them?
A. Yes, I had these records, and I asked one of my collaborators who
took part in these experiments to read through these records and to make
excerpts from them. He happens to be here also.
Q. Who was this collaborator?
A. One of my assistants by the name of Werner. He is in the audience at
the moment.
Q. You said something about his having participated in experiments; you
don’t mean the Dachau experiments, do you?
A. No. In experiments that I carried out with my students.
Q. Did you personally examine these records at all?
A. I saw them, but I didn’t study every one of them. I left that up to
the young man.
Q. And what did the young man do?
A. He gave me a very exhaustive report on them.
* * * * *
Q. Your testimony, then, is based upon a summary made by your assistant,
is that correct?
A. Yes. That is so.
Q. Now what other records were made available to you upon which your
testimony is based here?
A. The charts that were filled out in pencil with figures.
* * * * *
Q. Now, were there any other records that you got which we have not
heard about, on which your testimony here is based?