_DIRECT EXAMINATION_
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DR. KAUFFMANN: Now I should like to speak to you about Document Book No.
2, concerning the high-altitude experiments of Dr. Rascher. You said
this morning that you knew Rascher?
DEFENDANT RUDOLF BRANDT: Yes.
Q. Did you see him frequently?
A. Very few times in the course of 4 to 5 years.
Q. Did he come to your office and speak with you?
A. Twice when I was about to leave Munich by train, he and his wife
brought a letter for Himmler to the station and gave it to me.
Q. And what did he want when he came to Himmler’s front office and saw
you?
A. Either he brought a report or a letter; as I said, this could not
have happened more than 4 or 5 times.
Q. Were you ever present when Himmler talked with Rascher?
A. No. I was never present at those conferences.
Q. Did Rascher ever tell you personally, either before or after a
conference with Himmler, why he had come?
A. No. Afterwards we never spoke about these visits because I had no
time for that.
Q. But you do not want to deny that you knew that Rascher was carrying
out experiments on human beings in Dachau?
A. Yes, that I knew.
Q. Did you ever visit Dachau yourself?
A. No. I was never in Dachau nor in any other concentration camp.
Q. Did you yourself ever take part in experiments on human beings?
A. No.
Q. Did you see these photographs which are supplements to the document
books?
A. I cannot recall ever having seen them.
Q. Now, please turn to page 53. This is a letter from Rascher to Himmler
in which he makes suggestions to Himmler for the first time that human
being experiments should be carried out in Dachau. In this letter he
says that in these experiments he would certainly have to count on fatal
consequences for some of the subjects. Do you remember receiving this
letter? If not, can you say how you probably would have handled this
letter when it came?
A. I do not remember the letter. As in all cases I certainly would have
put this letter among the mail that Himmler would read personally, after
one glance through it had assured me that it was a medical matter in
which Himmler was generally interested.
DR. KAUFFMAN: We are speaking now, your Honor, of 1602-PS, Prosecution
Exhibit 44.
Q. Now, please look at page 57 of the German document book. This is
1582-PS, Prosecution Exhibit 45, a letter from you to Rascher in which
you tell him that, of course, prisoners will gladly be made available
for high-altitude experimentation. Was this letter written on your own
initiative or is it a case similar to all the others that you have
brought up here, namely, a letter written on orders from Himmler?
A. This letter does not originate with me. It can be traced back to
clear orders from Himmler.
Q. Now, please take a look at 1581-A-PS, Prosecution Exhibit 48, a
letter that bears your signature, addressed to Sievers. Here you write
that low-pressure experiments are being carried out by the Luftwaffe in
Dachau on prisoners there. Then look at the next Document, 1971-A-PS,
Prosecution Exhibit 49, a letter from Rascher to Himmler. In the first
sentence of this letter there is mention of an enclosed interim report,
and there is no doubt that this interim report was enclosed. Now, did
you read this interim report?
A. I should assume that I did not because firstly, such medical reports
were quite incomprehensible to me as a layman; and, secondly, because of
all the work which I had to do, I did not have enough time to concern
myself with reports which, first of all, I didn’t understand and,
secondly, did not interest me. Thus it is that I put this report in with
the mail that Himmler was to read without reading it myself.
Q. Now, please look at 1971-D-PS, Prosecution Exhibit 52, apparently a
teletype message from Rascher to you. Here Rascher asks whether Poles
and Russians are also to be pardoned if they have survived several
severe experiments. In 1971-E-PS, Prosecution Exhibit 53, your answer is
to be found, a teletype message to Obersturmfuehrer Schnitzler in
Munich. In this letter you say that experimental subjects are not to be
pardoned if they are Poles or Russians. This document was given
particular stress by the prosecution, and its cruel and atrocious nature
was emphasized. Do you remember this document or can you give us any
explanation of how it came about that you signed this teletype message?
A. I cannot remember this communication. Of course, I cannot here state
under oath whether this is one of those cases in which a teletype
message was sent on Himmler’s orders with my signature to it. It is also
quite possible that I saw this message and knew its contents and sent it
off, after receiving instructions from Himmler.
Q. But I should think that you would still remember a document with such
contents today; and yet you say that you do not remember it?
A. No, I do not. In view of the enormous number of orders that I got
from Himmler, I could not concern myself enough with the details of each
matter in order to be able to remember them for any length of time.
Q. Do you perhaps know whether you discussed this matter with Himmler
and then waited for his orders?
A. I cannot say that. I assume that I put the teletype message among his
mail and then received his instructions along with all the rest of his
orders.
Q. Now, I want to discuss NO-402, Prosecution Exhibit 66. This is a
letter to the German Research Institute for Aviation. This letter
accompanies a long report, the subject of which is rescuing pilots from
high altitudes. Do you have that report now in front of you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you work on this report or at least give a cursory glance at it?
A. I certainly did not work on it, and I did not even give it a cursory
glance, first of all because it is a medical report, and secondly,
because it is much too long.
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