*I*
*Interview with Sallie Paul, 79 years*
*Marion, S.C., Fairlee Street*
--_Annie Ruth Davis_
"I remember we colored people belong to de white folks in slavery time.
Remember when de war was gwine on 'cause we hear de guns shoot en we
chillun jump up en holler. Yes, mam, I remember dat. Remember de 30th of
dis October, I was 79 years old.
"No, mam, I ain' got no kin people. You see I been born in North
Carolina. Government lady get Lindy Henderson to stay here en look out
for me 'cause it be like dis, I can' see out my eyes one speck. Can'
tell de night from de day. Don' discover daylight no time, child. We
rents dis here house from Miss (Mrs.) Wheeler en Lindy treats me mighty
good."
(Lindy: "Well, we gets along nicely. I done feed her up en she get back
in bed, it be so cold en ain' got no coal to heat her. Yes, mam, has to
wait on de Salvation of de Lord. Government gives us a little small
salary, but we has to live mighty small, mighty small. Honey, it takes a
right sharp to live on dese days. If dey wasn' helpin me, I just don'
know, be as I ain' much dese days. Got dis high blood so worser en den I
has such a achin in my joints en throat dat does worry me right smart
too.")
"My white folks, dey was de Williamsons dere in North Carolina. Yes,
mam, dey was good to dey colored people. We lived right in dey yard or
dat what you may say in de yard. All de colored people lived dere side
de yard whe' dey be close enough to holler if anything get de matter.
You see, I wasn' big enough to do no work much den only as we chillun
tote up wood for de white folks en piddle 'bout de yard. I know I won'
big enough to do nothin but jump up en keep fuss gwine all round de yard
dere. I remembers dey used to get a handful of switches en stand us
chillun up in a long row en give us all a lick 'bout de legs. You see,
dey didn' work de chillun when dey was little bit of things en stunt dem
up. Chillun grow to be 'bout 12 or 13 years old fore dey work dem in dat
day en time.
"My white folks was well off peoples, honey. My Massa, he run three
plantations en he had a heap of colored peoples dere. You see, people
didn' run over de ground in dat day en time like dey do now. De men lift
up every piece de dirt in de ground en get all de roots out it. My
mother, she was one of de plow hands dere en when time come to lay off
de ground, she force to work out. Dat de reason we chillun be up in de
yard twixt meals. Den when breakfast en supper come, we eat to we house.
Live close enough to de white folks house dat de nigger chillun could go
to de house en get dey hominy en clabber 'tween meals. Oh, dey have dese
here long wooden trays set up somewhe' under de tree dere in de yard dat
dey would full up wid hominy en clabber for we chillun. Give some spoon
en dem others never had none. Dat it, all eat out de same tray right
side together. Yes, mam, when I was raise up, have plenty to eat en
chillun never fail to get it."
(Lindy: "Oh, child, we was bred en born in a fat kitchen in dat day en
time. We was well taken care of. People say I don' look like it 'cause I
here gwine 'bout wid stick in my hand. Sho was raise up in a fat
kitchen. Yes, mam, I was raise to do all de cookin en de nursin for de
white folks. Ain' never see no kitchen yet dat dey could lost me in
'cause I was trained myself. Never had no chance to go to school no
time. You see, if it wasn' cookin, it was chillun. 'Bout time new baby
come, dat first baby be knee child en so on like dat. Well, let me hush
now, honey, en let Sallie tell you dat what in her mind. She de one what
you come to get speech from.")
"Yes, mam, de people ate like dey eats now, but dey didn' never know
what a stove was in dem days. Some of de kitchen fireplace, you could
put a whole railin in it to hang de pots on. Den dey had dem big old
clay chimneys wid dirt ovens dat would hold a bushel of tatoes to a
time. Just was a brick chimney now en den in slavery time. Bake all de
cakes en de bread right dere on de fireplace. Child, dere sho been more
to eat in slavery time den dere be now en I know dat all right. Dere
been more sheep en hogs en cows en goats. No, mam, I don' think I like
goat. I don' think so. I recollects I tried to eat some goat one time en
it swell in my mouth. Know I wouldn' eat sheep neither. It a sin. Seem
like dey so humble.
"White folks didn' give de niggers no money no time, but dey had money
in slavery time much so as dey does now. You see, all de white folks
wasn' equal. Some was poor en de colored people sell dem things dey
white folks never want. Oh, dey take anything you carry dem.
"I don' know nothin 'bout de Yankees only I see dem come through dere de
day we was freed, but won' no great heap of dem come. Coase dey was
passin through dat country all durin de war en come to de colored
people's house en get somethin to eat. Yes, mam, colored people feed dem
en give dem somethin to travel on. It just like dis, de Yankees would
give de colored people dey good clothes en take dey rags. You see, dey
was desertin. Was runnin away en gettin back home. I don' know whe' if
de white folks know 'bout dey dere or not, but I know one thing, Massa
didn' see dem.
"Yankees didn' do no harm nowhe' in dat country to nobody, white nor
colored. Never hear tell of dat, but white people was scared of de
Yankees as dey was of a rattlesnake. Yankees tell de colored people dey
was free as dey was, but just didn' know it. I know dey said dat 'cause
I was standin up listenin to dem just like any other child be standin
dere lookin up in your mouth. Den when de colored people was freed, heap
of de white folks died 'cause dey grieve demselves to death over de loss
of dey property. Sho know dat 'cause I see dem en hear tell 'bout it
plenty times.
"Dere been plenty white folks dat wouldn' never fight against de Yankees
widout dey couldn' get out of it. Dey slip off en hide in pits dey dig
in de woods en in de bays. Some of dem say dey didn' have no slaves en
dey won' gwine fight. Dat de way it be, if dey didn' fight, dey had to
run away en stay in de woods. Dat point me to think 'bout how young
Massa would slip off wid de colored boys on a Sunday to play like white
people will do en would learn dem to read. Carry old Webster's Blue Back
wid dem en when dey been way off yonder, young Massa would learn dem to
read. My father could read, but he couldn' never write.
"Yes, mam, white folks get handful of switches en whip de nigger chillun
round de legs, but wouldn' never whip none of de grown 'omans 'cause dey
was breedin. Didn' kill niggers whe' I was born."
(Lindy; "My Lord, child, reckon dey would 'bout beat me to death if I
been livin den 'cause I done had two husbands en ain' never bear no
child yet. Doctor tell me if I want a child, I would have to go to de
hospital en be operated on en I wouldn' never get my mind fixed to do
dat. Honey, I lies down in dat bed dere at night en thanks my God dat I
ain' never had dat operation. I know I been bless 'cause dis de time of
Revelations de people livin in. Don' want no child my God gwine hold me
responsible for at de Jedgment. Sho bless 'cause like I see de world
gwine, people ain' got no time to be gettin ready to meet dey God. Tell
my God dat I thank he a thousand times again dat I been make like I is.
It a blessin, honey, a blessin.")
"Yes, mam, de white folks make dey own cloth right dere on de plantation
in dem days. Dey had a loom house, but my mother had a loom right to her
own door. Sometimes, she would weave piece for de white folks en den she
weave for herself. White folks find all de colored people's clothes en
see to have all dey weavin done in dat day en time. Dey had certain one
of de colored people to do all de common weavin, but dey couldn' do dem
three en four treadle till dey Missus learn dem how. My old Missus could
weave any kind of cloth or blankets or anything like dat.
"Oh, de white folks be right dere to look after dey colored people if
dey get sick. Coase dey gwine take care of dey niggers. Gwine save dem
just as long as dey got breath in dey body. Won' no niggers gwine suffer
if dey need doctor neither. Heap of dem was cared for more better in
slavery time den dey is now 'cause dey had somebody dat had to care for
dem or lose dem one. Ain' no white folks want to lose dey niggers.
"No, God! no, God! I hear talk 'bout it, but I don' know whe' dey can do
it or not. If dey can conjure, dey keep it to demselves. Dey never tell
me. I hear tell of dem things call ghosts, but I ain' never see none of
dem en ain' never see no hant neither. I has see a spirit though.
Peoples dat been dead, dey appears fore you en vanishes. Seen dem all
right. Dem things call ghosts en things, I don' wanna see none 'cause I
don' know 'bout dem. Hear talk of dem, but ain' seen nothin like dat.
"Well, it like I tellin you, everybody didn' hate dey white folks. Dat
how-come some niggers stayed right on dere wid dey white people after
freedom en farmed for half what dey made on de crop. You see, dey didn'
have nothin to work wid so dey stayed on dere en farmed on shares.
"I couldn' exactly tell you which de better times dese days or in
slavery time. I know heap of de colored people fared better when dey
belonged to de white folks 'cause dey had good owners. Didn' have to
worry 'bout huntin dey clothes en somethin to eat in dat day en time.
Just had to work. Now dey have to hunt it en get it together de best way
dey can. Oh, honey, peoples has so much worraytions dese days. Dat
how-come dey ain' live a long time like dey used to."
*II*
*Interview with Sallie Paul, age 79*
*Marion, S.C.*
--_Annie Ruth Davis_
"No, mam, I ain' able to see none tall no time. Dis here one of my eye
is weaken from dat other one. Cose I can tell de day from night, but say
see somethin, I couldn' never do dat.
"Well, I don' know nothin more to speak 'bout den dat I been tell you
dem other times you come here. It just like I tell you, we nigger
chillun would look to de white folks yard in de day, but we stayed to us
house in de quarter on a night. Oh, we lived close enough to de white
folks yard to know dere was cookin gwine on in de Missus kitchen. No,
child, we never eat us meals to de white folks house. You see, all de
niggers on de plantation would draw rations den just like heap of dese
people 'bout here draw rations dese days. I mean dey would draw so much
of ration from dey Massa to last dem a week at a time just like de
people draw government ration right 'bout here now. Dere was sho a
plenty to eat in dat day en time, too, 'cause I know whe' I come up, I
was raise on a plenty. Dere was abundance of meat en bread en milk all
de time. Yes, mam, cows won' lackin no time whe' I was raise. I remember
dey would give us chillun all de milk en hominy us could eat twixt
meals. Always fed de nigger chillun to de white folks yard twixt meals.
You see, dey was mighty particular 'bout how dey would raise en feed de
little niggers in dem days. Been more particular den you would be
particular wid a ten dollar bill dis day en time. Would keep dey little
belly stuff wid plenty hominy en milk same as dey was pigs. Dey do dat
to make dem hurry en grow 'cause dey would want to hurry en increase dey
property. De white folks never didn' despise to see a big crop of nigger
chillun comin on. Hear tell dat some of de white folks would be mean to
dey colored people, but never did see nothin of dat kind 'bout my white
folks' plantation. Cose de colored people would be let loose to get
together on a night en when Sunday come. Dat all de time dey ever had to
visit 'cause dey been force to work from sunup on de hill till sundown
over de swamp.
"Oh, de colored people had plenty song in slavery time, but I ain'
studyin nothin 'bout dat now. My 'membrance short dese days, child. Yes,
mam, de colored people had so many song in slavery time, I can' remember
de first word. Dey would sing anything dey could make a noise wid. Some
of dem could read out de hymn book en some of dem couldn' tell one word
from de other. Yes, mam, some of de young Massa would steal off to de
woods wid dey colored mate on a Sunday evenin' en learn dem to read. No,
Lord, dere won' no schools nowhe' for de colored people in dem days.
White folks catch nigger wid a book, nigger sho know he gwine get a
whippin soon as dat tale let loose. Now en den dey young Massa would
learn dem, but dey wouldn' never let dey fore-mammy know 'bout it. Cose
dey couldn' never write, but some of dem could read. Massa en Missus
never know 'bout it though.
"Now, it de Lord truth, honey, I ain' want to mislead you noway. Wouldn'
do dat for nothin. Don' lay no mind to heap of dis talk I hear some
people speak 'bout. I gwine talk 'bout what I been touch wid. Some of de
colored people fared good en some of dem fared bad in slavery time. Some
of dem had good owners en some of dem had bad ones. Thank de Lord, I
didn' get much of it 'cause I won' but nine years old when freedom come.
(Whe' de lady? Gone?). (The old woman is totally blind and remains in
bed all the time). Some of de white folks had dese here overseers en dey
was rough owners. Thank God, I was little en dey never didn' whip me
exceptin little bit 'bout de legs dere in old Massa yard. Remember dey
cut we chillun round de legs wid a switch sometimes when dey would want
to punish us en learn us better sense. Honey, us had a good old Massa.
Won' no cuttin en slashin gwine on round us like dere was on dem other
plantations round dere. My blessed a mercy, lady, some of dem grown
niggers mighty as well been dead in dat day en time, de overseers been
so mean. De little chillun wouldn' never be force to work like dey is
now. Dey would just be playin 'bout dere in old Massa yard en totin wood
for dey Missus. Wouldn' have to work in slavery time 'cause dey had
somebody to feed dem. Dat de difference, dey have to work for what dey
get dis day en time en ain' be satisfied wid it neither.
"Well, I don' know nothin 'bout dem cornshuckin dey used to have only as
dey would gather de crop in dem days en haul it up to de white folks big
old farm barn. Den dey would ax all de white folks 'bout dere to send
dey hands dere to shuck corn one night. En pray, dey would have such a
whoopin en a hollerin en de like of a big supper dere dat night. My
blessed Lord, dat was a big time for we chillun. One man would have corn
shuck to his barn one night en dey would all help shuck corn to another
man barn de next night. You see, people was more mindful to bless one
another in dat day den dey be dese days. Yes, mam, neighbor been please
to turn good hand to neighbor den.
"Oh, dere ain' been no end to fine victuals in dat day en time. You know
dere was a plenty to eat in slavery time 'cause de people made somethin
to eat den, but ain' nothin now hardly. Child, dis a tight time we gwine
through dese days. I remember dey used to have plenty 'tatoes en bread
en fresh meat every day en have heap of sheep en cows en goats all 'bout
de woods den, but dere ain' nothin growin in de woods dese days. Now, if
a man got a hog, he got it by de tail in de pen. No, mam, de most of de
people ain' got nothin now en dey ain' got nothin to buy somethin wid
neither.
"I don' know, child. I settin here in dis bed day in en day out wid dese
old bare eye en I don' know how de people gwine. I don' study nothin
'bout dem. I know I don' care how or which a way dey gwine 'cause I
studyin 'bout most all my days behind me now. Plenty people ain' livin
good as dey used to live long time ago. Seems like de times is tighter
en worser den what dey used to be. Reckon de reason be dere was more
made to eat den. Pa always tell we chillun dat it a sign de times gettin
better when dere more made to eat, child."
*III*
*Interview with Sallie Paul, age 79*
*Marion, S.C.*
--_Annie Ruth Davis_
"I ain' tryin to remember nothin 'bout my mammy when she was a girl. I
know I hear dem speak 'bout old Massa bought her en my grandmammy from
off de block en raised dem to a good livin. Hear talk dat some of de
colored people 'bout dere would catch old Harry in slavery time, but
dere won' nothin snatchin noways 'bout my white folks. I mean some of de
colored people would catch de devil in dat day en time 'cause dey come
up under a rough boss. Just had half enough to eat en had to stir 'bout
half naked most all de time. Not been took care of as dey should have
been.
"Cose when we was chillun, de grown people would be force to punish us
some of de time. Yes, mam, I do know what would happen to me, if I been
get in devilment. I would get a whippin right den en dere. Nobody
wouldn' never whip me, but old Massa en my mammy 'cause people won' no
more allowed to whip anybody child den dey is dese days. My child done
anything wrong den, you had to come to me 'bout it. I recollects, dey
would whip us chillun wid tree switches round us legs. Den if dey would
want to spare de punishment, dey would try to scare us out de mischief.
Tell us Bloody Bones would jump out dat corner at us, if we never do
what dey say do.
"Oh, I here to tell you, dey had de finest kind of enjoyments in dem
days. It was sho a time, to speak 'bout, when dey had one of dem
quiltings on de plantation. Didn' do nothin but quilt quilts en dance en
play some sort of somethin after dey would get done. Colored people
would have quiltings to one of dey own house, up in de quarter, heap of
de nights en dey would frolic en play en dance dere till late up in de
night. Would enjoy demselves better den de peoples do dese days 'cause
when dey would get together den, dey would be glad to get together. Oh,
my Lord, dey would dance en carry on all kind of fuss. Yes, mam, blow
quills en knock bones together dat would make good a music as anybody
would want to dance by. Child, dey had plenty scraps to make dey bed
clothes wid, 'cause dey Missus would save scraps for dem.
"Yes, mam, de white folks would furnish de colored people wid clothes
for true in dat day en time. Dey couldn' let dem go naked. How dey gwine
work wid bare back? Cose dey fine clothes, dey managed to get dat
demselves. You see, white folks wouldn' give dem no Sunday frock, but
one. I tell you, de cloth was better wearin' den. Dis here cloth dese
days, wear it two or three times, de wind could 'bout blow through it.
Oh, dey had de finest kind of silk in slavery time. Don' hear no silk
rattlin' 'bout here dese days, but would hear silk rattle in slavery
time just as same as would hear paper rattlin'. Colored people wore just
as much silk in dem days as dey do now 'cause when dey had a silk dress
den, it been a silk dress. Won' no half cotton en half silk. Goods was
sho better den, child, I say. Like I tell you, when a man had a
broadcloth suit den, it won' no half jeanes. All de colored people, dat
been stay on my white folks plantation, had dey own little crop of corn
en fodder 'bout dey house en when a peddler come along, dey would sell
dey crop en buy silk from de peddler. Dey been sell dey crop to anybody
dey could. Dere was always a poor one somewhe' dat been need corn en
fodder.
"No, mam, colored people didn' have no church of dey own in slavery time
'cause dey went to de white folks church. All I can tell you, we went to
buckra's church en dey set in one part de church en us set in de
gallery. Yes, mam, de white folks would see to it dat all dey niggers
never chance to miss church service no time. En de slave owners would
bury dey plantation niggers right dere to de colored people graveyard
behind de church, dat was settin right side de white people graveyard.
"I won' married till long time after freedom come here en when I get
married, de colored people had dese here bresh (brush) shelters for dey
church en dey had dey own colored preacher, too. Honey, I marry a Paul,
a slavery one, but I didn' have no big weddin. Didn' want none. Just
married dere to my father's house en I had a white dress dat was made
out of cotton, all I can tell. Know it won' no silk. I don' know nothin
more den dat to tell you. Dat de mighty truth, all I know, I had me a
husband en dat won' no great blessin, to speak 'bout.
"Don' ax me, child. Ax somebody dat know somethin 'bout dem things
people say is a charm. I say, dey is ignorant people what believe in
dem. I know I ain' never wear nothin round my foot 'cause I ain' got no
dime to spend, much less to be puttin it round my foot. I calls dat
nothin but a foolish person dat would do dat, ain' you say so? I see a
woman once wear a twenty-five cents piece tie round her ankle en I ax
her what she do dat for. She tell me she had de rheumatism en she hear
dat would cure it. I tell her I ain' had no mind to have no faith in all
dat what I hear people speak 'bout. Dat won' nothin but a devil been
talkin to dat woman, I say.
"My God a mercy, I tell you, slavery time was somethin. Dat been a day.
Colored people didn' have no privileges den only as dey Massa would let
dem loose on a Saturday evenin' en on a Sunday. But, child, dey was just
as proud of dat as people is proud of a month dese days. Didn' have no
more privileges in slavery time den dese people got now in dis here
chain gang. No, mam, niggers belong to dey owner in slavery just like
you got a puppy belong to you. Make dem go so far en den stop.
"What I think 'bout Abraham Lincoln? I ain' took time to have no
thoughts 'bout him. Hear so much talk 'bout him till I don' know what he
done. Hear talk dat he been de one dat free de slaves, but whe' de
power? De power been behind de throne, I say. God set de slaves free. De
Lord do it. Abraham Lincoln couldn' do no more den what God give de
power to do. It just like dis, I believes it was intended from God for
de slaves to be free en Abraham Lincoln was just de one what present de
speech. It was revealed to him en God was de one dat stepped in en fight
de battle."