*Interview with Sallie Layton Keenan, 80 yrs. old*
*20 Calhoun St., Union, S.C.*
--_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._
'Aunt' Sallie (80 yrs. old) and 'Uncle' Robert live with their grandson.
A daughter lives nearby. They like to tell of the days when they were
children:
"Land o' de libbin, my maw, she wuz one o' de Hughes and Giles niggers.
She used to lob to set down by de fire an' tell us younguns 'bout de
times what de had down dar on de big ribber (Broad River). Our
plantation, she used to say, wuz de one what de white folks called Mt.
Drury. But when maw wuz rael young, jus big enough to wait on de fine
white ladies, she wuz put on de 'block', you nos what dat wuz, and sold
to Marse 'Matt' Wallace. Marse Matt took it into his haed dat he wuz a
gwine to a place what dey calls Arkansas. His white folks, specially his
wife's, dem wuz de Mengs, dey riz up an put forth mighty powferul
objections. Fer a long time he wuz jus onsettled in he mind 'bout zactly
what he really wuz a gwine to do.
"Peers to me like my maw 'lowed dat he sorter kept his intentions secret
when he had rightly make up he mind 'bout de whole business. In dem
days, dere wo'nt no trains like dare is now. Everbody had to ride in
waggons, and de white ladies, dey allus rid in fine carriages. De
chilluns, dey rid wid de wimmen folks. Our Marster, he rid high steppin'
horse, cept on de Sabbath, when he rid wid de missus to meetin' house
out on de creek. (Brown's Creek).
"Anyhow, one cold mornin' not long fore Christmas and jus atter
Thanksgivin' us sot out fore day, or dat is, my maw and pa did, kaise I
wuz not born till we got to Mississippi River. Dar wuz fo' in de white
folks carriage--I is heered Maw tell it a thousand times, over and
over--In de carriage dar wuz Missus; and de fo' chilluns, Jeanette,
Clough, Winter and Ida. Marse Matt, he rid de horse right by de side o'
de carriage. Paw--de call him 'Obie', he driv a waggin wid all de little
nigger chaps in it dat wuz too little to walk. De big nigger boys and
gals dat wuz strong, dey walked. De roads wuz jus narrow little trails
wide enough fer de carriage and de waggin to git through de lims o' de
trees. Dey would hit you in de face iffin you didn't duck 'em, so maw
allus 'lowed. Dey had pack mules dat fetched along de supplies, fer dey
had to spen' de night in de thick woods what nebber had been cut. All
kinds er varmints used to git atter dem and maw 'lowed dat dey wuz
scared when dey sot camp, and she used to tremble mo' den she slep. When
she did sleep, she 'lowed dat she drempt de awful varmints wuz a gittin'
atter her. De missus, she wuz scared at night too. Marse Matt, he 'lowed
he warn't one bit scared, but maw sat dat Missus say he jump powerful in
he sleep sometimes.
"Marse Matt had done sot a task of so many miles fer dem to travel from
sun-up to sundown, but maw 'lowed dat dey nebber did hardly git dat fer.
De pack mules would git short winded, and sometime de carriage horses,
dey would git lame; or one o' de waggin wheels would take and break; or
it wuz allus some bad luck er follerin atter dem. Den Marse Matt, he
'lowed dat he didn't believe in no travelin' signs, and 'cause o' dat,
maw 'lowed dat dey had de worsest kind o' luck. Dat is de reason dat de
train did not git no further than 'Promoter' County, Miss. (Mr. Wallace
really went to Como, Desoto County, Miss., verified by Mrs. J. Clough
Wallace). It took dem fo' weeks to reach 'Promotor'. Dar dey set up de
new home. Maw 'lowed dat dey wuz called tender feeted poineers by dem
what had got dar ahead of dem. Peers like maw 'lowed dat dey stayed dar
five year. Anyway de fus year, a lot o' de niggers tuck all manner o'
ailiments and dey died. De Missus, she kept full o' cold in dat log
house. Dey had a fine house here, you nos de house what Miss Roberta
Wallace libs in, well, dat wuz de one, cepin it wuz not as fine as Miss
Roberta got it now. Anyway, maw and paw, dey didn't like it no better
dan missus, cepin dey wuz skeered to speak dere minds. Finally, de
Marster, he tuck down sick, and in spite o' all dat Missus do fer him,
maw 'lowed he kept a growin' worser and worser till he tuck and died one
bad night. Missus, 'Dandy' de Marster allus called her, had got so broke
down wid worry and sorrow, dat she wuz nigh to death's door, herself,
when de Marster died, maw said. Fer dat reason, dey kept it from her fer
two weeks. Dey thought dat she wuz gwine to have de pneumonia, like him,
but she started to gittin' well fore she tuck de pneumonia. Maw said dat
dey used all o' de ole nigger remedies on de Missus dat dey knowed and
fer dat reason dey brung her through. Maw is told me dem remedies but I
is so ole now, dat I jus remembers dem. If Bob wuz at hisself he could
give you some. You come by here some day when de moon is right and den
Bob'll be in his right mind to tell you some o' dem.
"De Missus, she come back powerful slow, and it wuz mi' nigh
Thanksgiving when she got strong. It wuz so cold dat she used to 'low
how she wish fer her paws big warm fire, and de Carolina sunshine. So
one bad morning, she took and got a letter from her paw in Union. He
axed her to fetch us all back here to Union. It had done tuck de letter
over three weeks to git to her. Long fore de Marster had died he had gib
up hope er gwine to Arkansas. When dat letter rive, maw 'lowed dat de
Missus she tuck and started to cryin'. All dat day she cry and read it
over an over. De very next morning she called up all us, I wuz born den,
and maw 'lowed dat I wuz a carrin' a sugar tit in my mouf and dat I had
de cooter bones round my neck. Course I disremembers all cept dat what I
is been told over and over. When maw and paw went out dar, dey had one
little chile. He wuz six years ole when dey got back here. One had done
tuck and died fore dey lef here. Den me and my sister, we wuz born in
Miss.
"Dat wuz one glad day fer us, kaise Missus 'lowed dat she wuz a gwine
back to her paw in Union. All de niggers, dey started to dancing and a
hollerin' like dey wuz wile. Maw 'lowed dat some folks dat libbed three
miles away tuck and come to see us. Some o' dem called us slackers, er
sometin' kaise we wuz a leavin'; but others, maw 'lowed, dat dey wished
dey could go as fer as Georgia wid us. But I is nebber liked Georgia
myself. Missus gib de orders fer us to begin packin' and maw said dat de
way dem niggers worked wuz a dyin' sin. De Missus, she sell her mules
and other stock, kaise we wuz a gwine to ride all de way back on de
railroad train. It had jus broke through to Miss. Some o' de ole niggers
'lowed dat dey wuz feered to ride on dem things, bein' as dey wuz drawed
by fire. Dey thought de debbil, he wuz a workin' in de inside of dem.
Maw 'lowed dat if de Missus wuz not feered she would not be. De Missus
was feered 'bout dem dat wuz not gwine to ride on de train, but when she
'lowed dat dey could jus stay in Miss. Maw said dat dey nebber did hear
no mo''bout dem bein' feered o' de train.
"Maw and paw allus tole me 'bout de things what I did on de train. I wuz
so young dat I jus remembers anything about dat. She 'lowed dat she tuck
de cooter bones from my neck fore we started to de train. Maw 'lowed dat
when de train come up, dey wuz so scairt dat we did not want to git on
till she did. All de niggers wuz looked up to when dey got back here,
maw 'lowed, kaise no niggers in Union had ebber rid on de train ceptin
dem dat had rid fer as Alston, and dey wuz so few dat you could count
dem on your hand.
"Missus 'Dandy' come right back to her paw's house. He wuz Mr. Clough
Meng. Missus Dandy's little boy, Clough, wuz big enough to go to school
when dey got back. It wuz Christmas when dey got to 'Promotor' County,
and it wuz Christmas when us rive back.
"When my paw, 'Obie', wuz a courtin, a nigger put a spell on him kaise
he was a wantin' my maw too. De nigger got a conjure bag and drapped it
in de spring what my paw drunk water from. He wuz laid up on a bed o'
rheumatiz fer six weeks. Dey all knowed dat he wuz conjured. He could
not even set up when his victuals wuz fetched to him. So his brother
knowed who had put de spell on him. He tuck and went to another old
conjure man and axed him to take dat spell off'n paw. De conjure man
'lowed to paw's brother dat a grapevine growed over de spring, and fer
him to go dar and cut a piece of it six feet long and fetch it to his
house at night. When he tuck it to de conjure man's house, de conjure
man, he took de vine in a dark place and done somethin to it--de Lawd
knows what. Den he tole my paw's brother to take it home and give it to
paw. De man what put de spell on paw, I mean de nigger what had it done,
he come often and set down by paw and ax him what was ailen him. Our
conjure man, he tole paw dat de nex time de man come an' set down by his
bed, fer him to raise up on his lef elbow and rech down by his bed and
take dat piece o' grapevine and hit de nigger over de head and face. Den
atter he had done dat, our conjure man 'lowed dat paw could den rise up
from his bed o' rheumatiz.
"It wont long before de nigger come to visit my paw. My paw, he axed him
real nice like to have a seat. His maw had done put a chair by de bed,
so dat he would set down wid his face toward paw. Atter he and paw got
to talkin, paw reched down an' axed him to have a look at de grapevine
dat he was gwine to smoke fer his ailment. Dat nigger, he 'lowed to my
paw dat it wuz not a goin to do his rheumatiz no good. Jus as he 'lowed
dat, paw, he riz up on his lef shoulder and elbow and wid his right han'
he let loose and come down over dat nigger's face and forehead wid dat
grapevine. Dat nigger, he jump up and run out o' dat house a hollerin'
kaise he knowed dat paw and done got de spell offin him. My paw got up
de next day and dey 'lows dat he nebber did have no mo' rheumatiz."